I want a serious big bore dual sport

hlrembe · 10-05-2008

What I really want is a SERIOUS HARDCORE big bore dual sport. Something in the likes of a closed loop fuel injected KLX450 with sufficient fuel cap for 150-175 miles, 12.5-13 inches of fully adjustable suspension fr&r, 6 speed gearbox, dry sump liqued cooled engine with an aluminum or lightweight moly oil carriing frame, just enough easliy removable lightweight "street neccesary" gear to satisfy the DOT, make the exhuast out of Titanium with a muffler that has a flow tunable core (legally quiet(choked) for everyday but better flow for closed area play) leave off all the comfort frills such as e-start and keep the weight under 260lbs dry. So dont spare the carbon fibre for things such as the no-tools required airbox and sealed electrical case. Cast magnesium will do fine for all the engine covers that do not come in contact with the coolant. Keep the price of admission under $10k and I'll be more then ready to put one in my garage. Or am I just asking for too much?

RichLockyer · 10-05-2008

Yikes... at under 260lbs?
It WOULD be a monster... but even the YZ450F with it's aluminum frame is 219lbs DRY, and it's only got a 1.8 gallon fuel capacity.

The WR450F adds SOME lighting (not enough to be DOT legal in most states), and an e-start to back up the kicker... it's 271 dry with a 2.1 gallon capacity.
Biggest tanks available for that class of bike MIGHT get you 100 miles.

The new WR250R specs out at 295lbs dry, 2.0 gallon tank, and though they spec it at 71mpg, I don't see it getting that off road.
It only has 10" of travel.

Sadly, street legal is going to hurt you on weight, because DOT regs require that the battery be large enough to maintain illumination of the lighting for either 10 or 15 minutes with the engine shut down. Once a battery is in to support that, everyone throws in e-start.

KLR650 looks like it might give you the range you want.... about 5.5 gallons usable fuel, claimed economy is from 45-60mpg, so you should be able to get 200 out of it.....
But it's over 400 pounds ready to roll, and suspension travel is less than 8".

If you are willing to give up the weight requirement, then you can go with something in the 450-650 class, but other than perhaps the KTM, it's not going to be a "competition" level suspension for true hardcore off-road.
The KLR and Honda XR series are fun bikes, but they are sometimes referred to as "pigs" for a reason, and they aren't the easiest thing to handle on off-road situations much more treacherous than fire roads.
Again, range is going to be a problem. Bigger engine means more fuel consumption. More onboard fuel means more weight... carried up high where it hurt handling.
Most 600-400cc street bikes have a hard time running more than 120-140 miles... so ya... you're going to have to compromise in a number of places.

hlrembe · 10-05-2008

Thats the deal I prefer not to comprimise. A sub 260lb dry machine is buildable all I am saying is that is what I want a manufacturer to build. What I am wondering is am I almost alone in this or are there others out there that want what I want also?
Beta's 525 weighs in under my target weight by 5lbs and Husaberg's Fe550 is only 4lbs over. Both of these bikes could easily be built lighter with the use of different material. Yamahas, Suzukis, and Kawasakis all weigh a ton due to the material their built from to keep retail prices as low as possible. I said I'd be willing to pay as much as $10 grand for for a ride that fits in my criteria. What I need now is for someone in one of the big four to step up to the plate and make it happen.

RichLockyer · 10-05-2008

Not enough demand for it in that price range for the big 4 to go after it.... your only option is going to be to build it yourself or settle for one of the EU machines.

Saleenguy · 10-06-2008

Just dualsport a motocrosser if thats your desire.

Otherwise its unlikely to fit your wish list.

Love my Honda CR500 dualsported bike.

hlrembe · 10-06-2008

I live in georgia and titling a conversion is impossable here or my longtime converted Maico 440 and Honda CR480R would be licensed already.
And Rich I don't see a Euro bike as "setteling" they are higher quality pieces then any of the big four they just don't have the dealer network behind them. The nearest Beta dealer to me is 650 miles away. Also want to say demand is relative to marketing just look at the automotive market.

QKENUF4U · 10-06-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saleenguy

Love my Honda CR500 dualsported bike.

BINGO WE HAVE A WINNER !!! loved mine too !! just buy one from another state thats titled and your done. (just like i did

)
Supermoto Junkie - Powered by vBulletin to start looking

Saleenguy · 10-06-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by QKENUF4U

BINGO WE HAVE A WINNER !!! loved mine too !! just buy one from another state thats titled and your done. (just like i did

)
Supermoto Junkie - Powered by vBulletin to start looking

Once you ride a 500 2 smoke dualsport, most all other bikes will bore you to tears.

And 2 stokes while a lot lighter than most other dualsports, also kill them in power, and are WAY easier to maintain.

Keep the air cleaner cleaned, and change the gearbox oil to ATF type F, and do so once per month, its cheap, buy at say walmart in a jug.

Run only Blue marble or amsoil at 40:1.

Clean the power valve every 20 to 30 hours.

Re ring and piston it in the winter every year while on down time from riding....and the parts are cheap, buy from wiseco, and get the top end gaskets from them also.

A top end should be just a pleasant 3 hour afternoon in your garage.

Have fun.

ps. the secret to long life is only run the oils I mentioned, and let it warm up sufficiently before getting on the throttle hard.

hlrembe · 10-06-2008

well I have no "down time" I ride 365 which brings me to one of my leading reasons for needing a dualsport. Even in georgia we get occasional snow and ice and backing a 425lb 125hp sportbike into a corner while quit exciting isn't as fun as it sounds.

Saleenguy · 10-06-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by hlrembe

well I have no "down time" I ride 365 which brings me to one of my leading reasons for needing a dualsport. Even in georgia we get occasional snow and ice and backing a 425lb 125hp sportbike into a corner while quit exciting isn't as fun as it sounds.

I am jealous, we get snow here.

Well can it be down for a day to take it apart, measure wear, order parts, and put it back together....thats about 3 or 4 days total, depending on if the parts are in or have to be ordered.

RichLockyer · 10-06-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by hlrembe

And Rich I don't see a Euro bike as "setteling" they are higher quality pieces then any of the big four they just don't have the dealer network behind them. The nearest Beta dealer to me is 650 miles away.

Didn't mean that as a jab against the Euro bikes... what I was referring to is the Euro imports are currently the closest you are going to get to your specs, but you are still going to compromise, thus "settling" for less than 100% of your requirements.

I've got nothing against Husky, Husaberg, GasGas, or KTM... they all make great machines, and for some reason, actually offer street-legal bikes in the US that are very close in capabilities to the Japanese competition trail bikes.
I would certainly not want to put my '05 Yami WR up against any of the new dual sports from Husky or KTM.... unless I was driving the Euro bike and the Euro bike owner was driving my Yamaha... THEN it might have a chance

SixFiveOh · 10-06-2008

How about one of these in street trim...

KX500

RichLockyer · 10-06-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by SixFiveOh

How about one of these in street trim...

KX500

Not too many states are going to let you plate a pinger over 50cc unless it's grandfathered with a 20 year old plate.
I've known guys out here who have had their plates pulled on title transfer... would suck to buy an MX bike with a legit plate and find out at the DMV that you can't ride it on the street, and it's too late to cancel the sale because the transfer is processed.

Saleenguy · 10-06-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by SixFiveOh

How about one of these in street trim...

KX500

I have the Honda version...they put a 500 motor in the 250 frame....total weight is just 213 pounds....and dualsported.....rips hard, and can ride the rode to the motocross track, then kick butt once there.....love it.

hlrembe · 10-06-2008

Georgia will not license my CR480R even though I have a ligit NY title. It's a 1982 bike and they say it's on their list of non-compliance bikes siting safety and emissions issues. So if Kawi doesn't come out with a KLX450S I will seriously start looking at both the Beta and the BMW, but would really like to stay green. And why do the big four insist on using steel gas tanks when the euros all run plastic?

RichLockyer · 10-06-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by hlrembe

And why do the big four insist on using steel gas tanks when the euros all run plastic?

I'll have to look at the KTM next time I'm out at the shop.
I would be surprised if CA would allow a plastic tank on a DS because of vapor leaching through the skin.

hlrembe · 10-06-2008

I have not looked at the KTM but you probably are right the BMW is not CA legal according to their web site but Beta does claim 50 state legal.

Saleenguy · 10-06-2008

KTM makes a nice 2 stroke that you should look at.

RichLockyer · 10-06-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by hlrembe

I have not looked at the KTM but you probably are right the BMW is not CA legal according to their web site but Beta does claim 50 state legal.

We've got the BMW "adventure bikes" here, and Dakkar-style bikes from a few builders, but I'm 90% certain that I've seen the 450 and 600 cc dual sports in both off-road and motard trim.

hlrembe · 10-06-2008

guess I'm checking out my local KTM dealer on Saturday. But I'm not giving up hope that someone at Kawi is reading this thread and taking notes.

10-05-2008	#1 (permalink)
hlrembe Finally Got Into First Gear BTK Beginner Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Georgia Posts: 59	I want a serious big bore dual sport What I really want is a SERIOUS HARDCORE big bore dual sport. Something in the likes of a closed loop fuel injected KLX450 with sufficient fuel cap for 150-175 miles, 12.5-13 inches of fully adjustable suspension fr&r, 6 speed gearbox, dry sump liqued cooled engine with an aluminum or lightweight moly oil carriing frame, just enough easliy removable lightweight "street neccesary" gear to satisfy the DOT, make the exhuast out of Titanium with a muffler that has a flow tunable core (legally quiet(choked) for everyday but better flow for closed area play) leave off all the comfort frills such as e-start and keep the weight under 260lbs dry. So dont spare the carbon fibre for things such as the no-tools required airbox and sealed electrical case. Cast magnesium will do fine for all the engine covers that do not come in contact with the coolant. Keep the price of admission under $10k and I'll be more then ready to put one in my garage. Or am I just asking for too much?

10-05-2008	#2 (permalink)
RichLockyer Patriot Guardian Extreme Forum Supporter Join Date: May 2006 Location: Chino, CA Posts: 20,079	Yikes... at under 260lbs? It WOULD be a monster... but even the YZ450F with it's aluminum frame is 219lbs DRY, and it's only got a 1.8 gallon fuel capacity. The WR450F adds SOME lighting (not enough to be DOT legal in most states), and an e-start to back up the kicker... it's 271 dry with a 2.1 gallon capacity. Biggest tanks available for that class of bike MIGHT get you 100 miles. The new WR250R specs out at 295lbs dry, 2.0 gallon tank, and though they spec it at 71mpg, I don't see it getting that off road. It only has 10" of travel. Sadly, street legal is going to hurt you on weight, because DOT regs require that the battery be large enough to maintain illumination of the lighting for either 10 or 15 minutes with the engine shut down. Once a battery is in to support that, everyone throws in e-start. KLR650 looks like it might give you the range you want.... about 5.5 gallons usable fuel, claimed economy is from 45-60mpg, so you should be able to get 200 out of it..... But it's over 400 pounds ready to roll, and suspension travel is less than 8". If you are willing to give up the weight requirement, then you can go with something in the 450-650 class, but other than perhaps the KTM, it's not going to be a "competition" level suspension for true hardcore off-road. The KLR and Honda XR series are fun bikes, but they are sometimes referred to as "pigs" for a reason, and they aren't the easiest thing to handle on off-road situations much more treacherous than fire roads. Again, range is going to be a problem. Bigger engine means more fuel consumption. More onboard fuel means more weight... carried up high where it hurt handling. Most 600-400cc street bikes have a hard time running more than 120-140 miles... so ya... you're going to have to compromise in a number of places. __________________ - Rich 2006 1600 Classic Member CORVA, BRC Patriot Guard Rider Last edited by RichLockyer : 10-05-2008 at 02:33 AM.

10-05-2008	#4 (permalink)
RichLockyer Patriot Guardian Extreme Forum Supporter Join Date: May 2006 Location: Chino, CA Posts: 20,079	Not enough demand for it in that price range for the big 4 to go after it.... your only option is going to be to build it yourself or settle for one of the EU machines. __________________ - Rich 2006 1600 Classic Member CORVA, BRC Patriot Guard Rider

10-06-2008	#5 (permalink)
Saleenguy Dazed and Confused Extreme Forum Supporter Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: British Columbia Canada Posts: 3,375	Just dualsport a motocrosser if thats your desire. Otherwise its unlikely to fit your wish list. Love my Honda CR500 dualsported bike. __________________ Riding is good for ones soul. Riding amongst friends is even better.

10-06-2008	#12 (permalink)
SixFiveOh Full Circle Rider BTK Expert Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Katy, TX Posts: 1,588	How about one of these in street trim... KX500 __________________ Keith '07 Lime Kawasaki KX450F '06 Red/Black Suzuki Hayabusa

10-05-2008	#3 (permalink)
hlrembe Finally Got Into First Gear BTK Beginner Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Georgia Posts: 59	Thats the deal I prefer not to comprimise. A sub 260lb dry machine is buildable all I am saying is that is what I want a manufacturer to build. What I am wondering is am I almost alone in this or are there others out there that want what I want also? Beta's 525 weighs in under my target weight by 5lbs and Husaberg's Fe550 is only 4lbs over. Both of these bikes could easily be built lighter with the use of different material. Yamahas, Suzukis, and Kawasakis all weigh a ton due to the material their built from to keep retail prices as low as possible. I said I'd be willing to pay as much as $10 grand for for a ride that fits in my criteria. What I need now is for someone in one of the big four to step up to the plate and make it happen.

10-06-2008	#6 (permalink)
hlrembe Finally Got Into First Gear BTK Beginner Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Georgia Posts: 59	I live in georgia and titling a conversion is impossable here or my longtime converted Maico 440 and Honda CR480R would be licensed already. And Rich I don't see a Euro bike as "setteling" they are higher quality pieces then any of the big four they just don't have the dealer network behind them. The nearest Beta dealer to me is 650 miles away. Also want to say demand is relative to marketing just look at the automotive market.

10-06-2008	#9 (permalink)
hlrembe Finally Got Into First Gear BTK Beginner Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Georgia Posts: 59	well I have no "down time" I ride 365 which brings me to one of my leading reasons for needing a dualsport. Even in georgia we get occasional snow and ice and backing a 425lb 125hp sportbike into a corner while quit exciting isn't as fun as it sounds.

10-06-2008	#15 (permalink)
hlrembe Finally Got Into First Gear BTK Beginner Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Georgia Posts: 59	Georgia will not license my CR480R even though I have a ligit NY title. It's a 1982 bike and they say it's on their list of non-compliance bikes siting safety and emissions issues. So if Kawi doesn't come out with a KLX450S I will seriously start looking at both the Beta and the BMW, but would really like to stay green. And why do the big four insist on using steel gas tanks when the euros all run plastic?

10-06-2008	#17 (permalink)
hlrembe Finally Got Into First Gear BTK Beginner Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Georgia Posts: 59	I have not looked at the KTM but you probably are right the BMW is not CA legal according to their web site but Beta does claim 50 state legal.

10-06-2008	#18 (permalink)
Saleenguy Dazed and Confused Extreme Forum Supporter Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: British Columbia Canada Posts: 3,375	KTM makes a nice 2 stroke that you should look at. __________________ Riding is good for ones soul. Riding amongst friends is even better.

10-06-2008	#20 (permalink)
hlrembe Finally Got Into First Gear BTK Beginner Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Georgia Posts: 59	guess I'm checking out my local KTM dealer on Saturday. But I'm not giving up hope that someone at Kawi is reading this thread and taking notes.