should i change my air filter to hi-flow????

[A2rider]

It depends on what you are going to do with the bike. Are you just riding it as a commuter? Play toy for the twisties? Racetrack? Dragstrip? Too many questions?!!

Mods to me only make sense when they are used in a practical sense. If you just want to spend money to say you have these things on your bike, then spend away. If you have a purpose in mind, then I can help.

[Dorlan James]

Originally Posted by A2rider

It depends on what you are going to do with the bike. Are you just riding it as a commuter? Play toy for the twisties? Racetrack? Dragstrip? Too many questions?!!

Mods to me only make sense when they are used in a practical sense. If you just want to spend money to say you have these things on your bike, then spend away. If you have a purpose in mind, then I can help.

Well I use it mainly for a commuter, but it's also a play toy for the twisties. I've got a lot of friends at work who ride and we go out and have fun on the weekend. The main general direction I want to go with the bike is for performance and handling. It's already really good in those departments, but I want to make it better and to fit me more. If that makes sense.

[A2rider]

Then you are looking at suspension, tires, fork oil weight, different bars, rearsets, and maybe racing levers. But before you do all this, consider saving the money for a track day. This will teach you more about your bike's handling and performance tahn all the mods in the world. I don't know how long you have been riding, but a track day can improve your riding abilities no matter how long you have been in the saddle.

[Dorlan James]

You done track days before? If so what's it like? And I've only been riding for a little under a month but I've got about 1400 miles under my belt right now.

[A2rider]

No, I don't ride a sportbike, and they don't let cruisers on the track! But all I basically ride with is sportbikes, so I have been to a track day, but not riding. Everyone I know has come home being blown away by the experience. They say one track day is worth months on the road. You might want to PM Ervins, he is a track nut, and could tell you more about what you will actually get out of it.

[Dorlan James]

Alright, thanks again for everything. What type of cruiser you on?

[A2rider]

I had a 600 Shadow until someone stole it 2 months ago.

[Dorlan James]

That sucks! I'm sorry about that. Actually, that's one thing that I'm afraid of right now. I live in an apartment complex and I'm worried that someones going to steal mine. I've got like 60 locks on the thing! Again, sorry about the loss. Insurance company going to reemburse you?

[A2rider]

Bikes been paid off, left me with a little to get another one. Credit is not great, so will be buying used.

[Dorlan James]

Man that sucks! Hope everything works out for you though!

[bikerdave]

Originally Posted by bikeaholic

Some airfilters do work on certain bikes & some don't affect performance at all, but most aren't worth a damn for the overall performance advantage. The OEM filters are tuned to a specific resonance inside the airbox & once you go altering that you get various results. You might get better top end, but poor low end or vice-versa or you might get better performance with a bad stumble that lasts only for only a 200 rpm range or you may simply get a dip in power at some point. The combimation of results is almost infinite.

The main thing to remember is that on streetbikes you need drivability. If you were to put a graduated scale on your throttle housing & make a mark on your throttle grip you would find that you rarely exceed 10% throttle while riding around, yup no crap, 10%! Even when aggressively leaving stoplights & such you really don't open up the throttle all that much. So you need to have your bike as responsive as it can be at low throttle positions & in the mid-range of the bike where you ride the most. Way too much emphasis is put on peak hp when in fact you rarely ride around at redline with a wide open throttle... It's all about better mid-range performance & that is coincidently where the high flow filters usually hurt performance.

The airbox is perfectly tuned to accept x amount of air thru the filters & deliver it to the carbs or throttle bodies in a metered volume & every thing works perfectly in sync in the state of tune they must be in to pass EPA Emissions testing. Typically an alteration of the filter leads to too much turbulent air entering the airbox & usually ends up either leaning out the motor or stalling the airflow altogether.

What would be more beneficial for creating more horsepower would be a larger airbox, which would make a larger amount of air "available" for the motor to use as opposed to a greater volume of air that the engine would be "forced" to use if you went with hi flow filters or filterless. What you don't want to end up doing is putting more air into the airbox than the engine can mix with the fuel. If that happens then you have screwed up your air/fuel ratio & you will lose power.

I'm not going to outright say that there is nothing to be gained from aftermarket filters, but I will say that most top-notch tuners will sway you a different direction especially if you are riding a streetbike as opposed to a racebike. Citing drivability issues as the number one concern.


In the end one thing is for certain if you are going to use aftermarket filters & get any appreciable gains from them it's going to require a Powercommader, alot of dyno time & probably some creative airbox mods too, maybe even to the point of fabricating custom bellmouths to get it dialed in correctly!

BTW because someone always brings up the fact that they use K&N filters in their car or truck & they do work under those conditions I must add that I too use K&N filters in my vehicles & they do show definite increases in power & throttle response, but cars are differerent from current bikes in that they have a closed loop Fi system that can compensate for the air flow variance whereas bikes use an open loop Fi system that cannot automatically compensate. you will be interested to know that K&N has developed many different types of turbulence diffuser inserts for many different makes of cars & trucks that lessen intake turbulence when using their filters to increase performance. So far nobody has developed a way to even test for turbulence on motorcycle induction systems let alone cure it...

Hey bikeaholic, this is an old thread but a really interesting point you make.
Let me just get this straight... what you are saying is that a "high flow" filter in a stock airbox = not much gain in power. BUT a larger airbox = better 02 delivery and better performance.

So my quesion would be - on my carbed VN800 with pipes and a K&N filter, would I be better of getting an airbox modification and rejetting to suit??
Would grampsizing/scooterizing the airbox, as many others on this site have suggested be the same as what you are talking about?? and is this type of modification something that will improve low to midrange power? or is it only top-end HP that you are improving?? as you stated, We dont oftern ride with throttle wide open at red line... and low-mid range power is what I want to improve.
Your thoughts are appreciated.

[paul-s]

i swear by kn's never had a problem.in the 70's i would just rejet. now i just plug in this notebook download a map.

[bross]

Originally Posted by Dorlan James

Thus far, everyone's recomended to add the K&N and I've heard things hear and there about the Power Commander, re-jetting and getting exhaust (slip on or full). But what exactly do all of them do and how does it all work together?

A motor is just an air pump, so if you install a high flow air filter that lets you draw more air into the motor and that's good if you're looking for more power. But if you don't change the exhaust then the motor can't get any more air out of the motor than before so you won't notice much difference. Now if you add a freer breathing exhaust, then the motor can exhale as much air as your new high flow intake can inhale. But now that you have the motor breathing more air (more power) you have to add more fuel to keep the air fuel ratio balanced. That's why the PCIII for fuel injected bikes and rejetting on carb'd bikes. It's a whole system that has to work together: intake, fuel, exhaust. Change one and you're not really changing anything, performance wise. Just like putting aftermarket pipes on but not a high flow air filter and a PCIII will make your bike louder but not give you any appreciable increase in power. But the downside to all this is your mileage will suffer. More air+more fuel = more power, but less mileage. Fortunately for me, I'm happy with my stock bikes performance and sound so I still get pretty good mileage.

42mpg on the meanie and average about 56mpg on the RT

[Mercury]

So my quesion would be - on my carbed VN800 with pipes and a K&N filter, would I be better of getting an airbox modification and rejetting to suit??
Would grampsizing/scooterizing the airbox, as many others on this site have suggested be the same as what you are talking about?? and is this type of modification something that will improve low to midrange power? or is it only top-end HP that you are improving?? as you stated, We dont oftern ride with throttle wide open at red line... and low-mid range power is what I want to improve.
Your thoughts are appreciated.

I have an 800 CC bike that I changed the entire "air pump system" around on

2000 kawasaki drifter 800. I put on a "okie air system" check w/ russ wolf anglefire page - that man knows his stuff

I did a roadhouse 2 into 1 now if I would have known about their lack of support i would have found another company for the exhaust. I like the 2 into 1 though. I also rejetted the carb

I will say it made a great difference.

Also taught me about the engine a bit too

kenny

[ADC]

[quote=A2rider;495247]You are welcome. Spent $16K on a motorcycle mechanics school, can't find a job because I'm female, so somebody might as well get helped![/QUOT]

Thats got to stink hey maybe you could tell me what would be a good upgrade for instant power on my new 07 1600 nomad I was thiinking pipes and advice is appreciated thanks in advance!



ADC

[ispeed77]

ADC
pipes aren't going to gain you much, but pipes, intake and a power commander will.

[ADC]

Originally Posted by ispeed77

ADC
pipes aren't going to gain you much, but pipes, intake and a power commander will.

Im getting ready to get the full cobra pipes with the FI2000r commander Im hoping I get my bang for the bucks I know alot of people run the V&H baggers but the gentleman at the parts store said the cobra's are gona be the loudest and best for performance I hope he is right also He said not to worry about the intake for now that the pipes and commander should make a huge diference. we will see

[ispeed77]

Alan, the guy at the parts store is wrong, sorry to say.
number one, the V&H pipes blow the Cobras out of the water. i had both sets on my Nomad and the Cobras were only a touch louder than stock, and did not have removable baffles. the Baggers sounded awesome right out of the box, better with the heat wrap removed and even better with modified baffles. as for his comment about the intake, he is also dead wrong. if you are not doing anything with the intake, don't spend the money on the FI2000 cause it won't make a difference. the processor changes the fuel/air mixture to make up for more air intake. if you don't add more air, then there is no point in adding more fuel. the intake is really a crucial part to the equation. i am not sure how the 1600 is tuned from the factory. if it is running lean, then you may gain a little, but IMO, not worth the cost of the FI2000 for the little bit you will get. if you already ordered the pipes and processor, i would try to order an intake some time soon. or, if money is an issue, go with something like the Caddman mod which only runs around $50 i think. do a search on the forum for Caddman if you are not familiar with it.

[SliderWV]

Check out my post about "Ethanol is the culprit?" The only thing they changed on my bike was to put on an improved (high flow) air filter and I immediately noticed a change in my engine performance and not for the better. The service guy blamed it on the crappy gasoline we are getting but because the difference was immediate I suspect something else. THis post suggests the air filter may be the culprit. I think I will ask them to put a stock air filter back on when I get the 12k service done in a month or so. I'll let you all know what happens when I do that.

[Cletus]

For those of you contemplating High Flow Air Filters here's what I've done and my findings to date on my 1600 Vulcan Classic:
Caddman Kit

Did my Caddmann modification using dual K&N 60-1070 Filter Kits
(although the one on the left is optional and if used, is mainly
cosmetic) http://www.knfilters.com/search/prod...x?Prod=60-1070
and removing the Cold Idle Solenoids.

Very impressed with the performance the Caddmann mod extracts from the
machine, this mod I feel, really does tap into the true potential of
the motor. http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n...ey/caddman.jpg

I did not install a commercial aftermarket computer, as IMO based on
much research, there's really no need for it, in the configuration I
am running (stock pipes, Caddmann Mod with K&N Filter, marbled
reed-valve air intake).

Although I firmly believe that the new, unrestricted airflow presents
much cooler air to the Air Temperature Sensor, which translates in the
bike's ECU compensating with a proportional response richening the Air
Fuel mixture, I however felt that I should have some basic control
over the fuel mixture across the throttle operating range, as it's
been stated here and elsewhere, that Kawasaki does inherently program
the fuel map towards lean. Based on this assumption, a means of
richening the mixture a bit and having some control over it, without
spending big bucks for a commercial device, would be a good thing. I
therefore built this circuit:
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n...ey/circuit.jpg
Which is a spin-off from gadget's page:
Pre-Ignition Fix For Fuel Injected Motorcycles The fixed 470-ohm and series,
1k-ohm 15-turn pot allow adjustment from 470 through 1470-ohms. The
slide-switch allows this resistance to be instantly bypassed if needed
without disturbing the calibration setting.

I potted the circuit in epoxy and silicone and housed it in Aluminum
mount which I built and then installed within the Air Filter housing
on the right side (the nice little aluminum faceplate has been removed
to show the pot and switch clearly)

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n...ncementPot.jpg

Based on the wonderful research and calculations done by Lumir F.
Bakota,
http://www.gadgetjq.com/ping_mod_resistance-fueladd.xls and
substituting my typical local ambient temperature of around 31*C I
should therefore have a theoretical adjustment range of 3.2 through
7.8% richening of the Air /Fuel mixture and the option to instantly
switch back and forth between the set point and stock A/F mixture.

A dyno or exhaust analyzer not being available to me, I opt to set my
A/F mixture potentiometer based on plug color after a substantial ride
and as such, I find an acceptable, light-tan color given my riding
conditions here, at a setting of 825-ohms. This translates to
approximately 5% richening of the A/F mixture according to Lumir's
equations.

Everything I've done to modify the bike is reversible. I did not do
any mods whatsoever to the exhaust and do not foresee doing so for two
especial reasons, the first being my rides get me out of here very
early on Sunday mornings and the noise will drive the wife and
neighbors crazy and the second being I am very satisfied with the
power levels and throttle responses I presently have given my riding
conditions here. If I do someday decide to work the exhaust system I
will certainly opt for the sophisticated control offered by a
commercial aftermarket computer.

My overall findings are:
Increased power, crisp throttle response. No pinging on roll-on and no
backfiring on roll-off. Love the sound of the throttle-bodies
opening-up and sucking-in the Tropical atmosphere.

And! …. there's a bonus for me:
My riding style and local conditions typically put me at an ideal
highway cruising speed of 70-mph (early Sunday mornings, no ***-holes
on the road). However, at 70-mph with the stock intake, I find myself
frustrated, in that I get the sensation of being too fast for
fourth-gear and too slow for fifth-gear. Since doing the Caddmann mod,
at 70-mph, I can confidently shift to, and run in fifth-gear while the
motor just purrs. This I attribute with the freeing-up of the intake,
the Power Curve begins just a tad earlier.