300 won't start

[TJ-Bill]

I had the bike out yesterday breaking a trail to the back part of my property. I was out about 3-4 hrs nothing hard just alot of winching through the snow. I had the bike on and off maybe 3-4 times when I came back to the house or when I took a break, everything worked great.
End of the day I get the bike turned around at the end of the trail and head her for home, I was going at a good pace becuase there's alot of snow and I was getting hung up. I had it in 3rd gear coming into the field because I knew there was one place I was going to have trouble with and I wanted to put the bike in the shed not leave it out in the field. Well I think 3rd gear was abit to high of a gear and the bike ended up stalling. Tried to start it again but it wouldn't go.. I tried for awhile then figured it was flooded and called it a day. Came home tonight and replaced the fuel filter and same thing no go.. I don't have time to night but will tomorrow to tryand figure out whats going on.

Any hints on wha to check 1st besides spark?

Oh yeah it's an 86' 2WD

Thanks

Bill

[tim28584]

Four things to make an engine run... Air, Fuel, Spark, and Compression. Take one away, it's not gonna run.

Spark is where I'd start first. Ground the plug to the block to see about quality/duration of spark. Fuel, then air. Hope it's not a compression problem for you.

[TJ-Bill]

I'll check spark, see if I can't borrow a compression tester. I just put a new fuel filter on so I don't think thats the problem unless it's not getting to the carb. I did have the air box and intake tube off so I'll double check that but it shouldn't be an issue. I guess I'll put my winch back on the Jeep and see if I can't get the bike upto the shed.

[tim28584]

If you haven't disassembled the carb in a while, now is a good time to do it. The main jet and pilot jet have small holes in them that easily get gummed up. It's probably not the issue, since you were riding it shortly before it stopped. It may be that the float needle was stuck in the up or closed position, not allowing any fuel to enter the carb, therefore causing no fuel to get to the engine. That's an easy fix, just clean everything. Sometimes a little "grit" gets stuck in the float pin which can cause the float not to fall and open the needle valve.

The engine not receiving enough air is most likely not the issue.

If you have spark, fuel, and air -and getting a compression test isn't going to happen any time soon- check the timing. Open your timing plug on the generator cover, check to make sure that the engine is at Top Dead Center (the other top stroke will have the exhaust valve open). Then take off the cam cover (on the head, left side of engine) and make sure that the timing dot is at the correct position. (if needed, PM me and I'll scan you a picture of what it should look like). This will verify that your timing/cam chain hasn't skipped a tooth.

Let us know...I still am hoping for the simple things for you!

Tim

[TJ-Bill]

Thanks for the info Tim.. just to give you a quick update. I went out right after work and the bike fired up!. I let it warm-up for abit and then tired to get it unstick (drove it back and forth about 2-3 for a few times) bike seemed fine. Then I got off and picked the front and back up abit to get it back on-top the snow. then it idled fine but would not take any throttle. I went hooked up the winch and started winching then the bike died, and wouldn't start.. I left it for abit went back and it started but only if I held the Choke. ANyway ,, I didn't get it going but I plan on going out after I eat..

I thought maybe it might have something.

Also I just got the bike it was my Uncles, he kept pretty good care of it but didn't have it that long.. I might call him and ask him if he had the carb off or cleaned it.

I'll let you know if it's starts in abit

[TJ-Bill]

ya.. it wouldn't start

[tim28584]

Sounds like a fuel delivery problem. Bike runs fine when fuel is in the carb bowl, but it's not refilling at a fast enough rate to sustain running hard. Thats why it started when the choke was on, because you were pulling the last little out of the bowl.

1. Is your fuel filter connected in the correct direction?
2. Are you positive there is fuel getting to the carb?

If thy answer is absolutely "yes" for both of the two above: Remove carb, clean, clean, clean, and clean a little more. You are going to find some NASTY stuff in the carb bowl. Be careful not to tear any gaskets. Pay attention to things inside, you will learn a lot. Stuff starts to make sense when you begin to take things apart. You will need an 8mm wrench for the main jet.

Also, make sure you clean the throttle "can" and needle, and the choke end. The throttle can will have a good bit of carbon built up on it.

[86klf300guy]

sounds like a carb issue to me float stickin shut to me-corey-

[TJ-Bill]

Thanks Guys I'll have a look tonight. Seems funny that it would work for 2-3hrs fine and then die, but maybe soemthign final got free and is sticking in the carb somewhere. Also when I replaced my Fuel filter I need a longer gasline going to the Carb and I only had a smaller Dia hose so i used it. I think Maybe I'll go get a piece of 3/16 or 1/4" line that was on originally.

[tim28584]

It is 1/4" ID fuel hose (or at least it is on my 220).

[TJ-Bill]

Good news I just got the wheeler to start and managed to get it up to the shed.. heading out to clean the carb.. I'll grab my camera..

[TJ-Bill]

SOOO.. I'm not sure why the bike decided to start to night and run enough for me to get it up to he shed but it did.. After I got it in the shed I let it run at idle for abou 15-20min.. When I came back out the idle had changed it sounded wierd kinda caught me off gaurd, I looked at the clear filter and it looked empty. I panic and shut the bike off realizing when I did I was looking at the gas filter not an oil filter. Anyway Not sure why the filter wasn't full.. could be the size of the fuel line I'm guessing maybe there's not enough volume at idle to pull enough gas through the line to keep the bowl full.

I ended up taking the carb off.. checked it over and basically everything looked really clean. I talking to an older gentlemen that has had these bike for years and he suggested I buy a rebuild kit anyway. I'm abit leary about removing the idle screw. fuel/air mixture and jet. since they all seem fine.. He said that my float seal might be leaking (explaing why I had fuel leaking from the overfollow on the bottom..

Anyway.. the carb is apart right now. depending if/when I can get a rebuild I might and I might no.. I probably will put it back together as is and try it after a good cleaning. if the problem presists I'll rebuild.. I think part of the issue might be the smaller gas line to the carb.

Anyway .. here's some pics for those how need them..


Removed the air box and intake tube


I took the throttle cable off the removed the linkage from the carb. seemed the easiest thing to do.


Removed the choke ..


And there she be!!



Bottom end.. looked pretty clean.. but I cleaned it anyway..





.. Anyway..

[tim28584]

Clearing out your float needle will take care of the overflow problem. While the fuel filter was plumbed into the system, does it cause the fuel hose to raise up anywhere? Or is there a natural "fall" to the carb? If the fuel line rises before it gets to the filter, you are not letting gravity fill the carb. The fuel system is a "gravity fed" system. There is very little vacuum to pull fuel from the tank to the carb. And it is okay to have an air pocket in your fuel filter.

Tim

[TJ-Bill]

Tim is th efloat needle the one thats attached to the bottom of the bowl? (21nd picture from the bottom) I put the carb back on and fired it up.. it sounded great, no choke to start it.. I got on and took off, that lasted about 2 min before it wouldn't take any throttle, then it would barely say running without the choke. It eventually stalled and wouldn't start, GOt it running again so I could move it, let it idle for awhile then it stalled while I was inside and wouldn't start..

Tomorrow I'm ordering a rebuild kit.. hopefully that will do it..

My new added tonigth line is long and loops around from the th efilter to the carb.. I had a shorter piece but because I have a longer filter the angles were to tight and kinked the tubing. Should I try and keep everything in between the tank and carb?

[tim28584]

Next time you have the carb off, drain it, and take a small piece of new fuel hose, connect it to the fuel inlet on the carb, and blow into it. You should be able to blow air fairly easily into the carb. If you turn the carb upside down, you should not be able to blow air in. This is because of the needle valve float assembly. While the float is down, it is letting fuel (or air) into the carb. When the float is up, it shuts off the flow of fuel.

The other part of how the fuel enters the carb is via gravity. If you take off the carb and leave the fuel lines where they would be hooked up while the carb was in, turn on the fuel at the petcock and see how much comes out the hose. It should be a good stream.

Wait on the rebuild kit. You might be saving some money if it is one of the two listed above.

Tim

[300Bayou]

i had to clean out my petcock valve on the bottom of the gas tank when this happened to me.. just a thought

[TJ-Bill]

Tim, you were right about the fuel line.. I went out and looked and the longer line was empty. I lifted it up above th carb and it filled up and the bike started up (still didn't run great)

I'll take the carb off again tonight and check the needle valve.. someone suggested that maybe the seal around the neddle valve might be leaking.

I'm going to order the rebuild kit anyway, it's only $24 and if I don't use it at least I'll have it..

I also need to get a new petcock/tank switch mine leaks if you pull or push on the valve.

[tim28584]

Before the order, blow air into the carb liked I typed earlier. If it leaks, your seal is shot.

If the bike runs like garbage still, check the pilot and main jet. They have a bunch of holes that get clogged by the smallest grains of dirt/sand.

The reason the bike ran better when it was full of gas is because the weight of the gas was pushing fuel down the hose. The longer you went, the more fuel got burned, and therefore there was less weight pushing fuel into the bowl.

At least it's an easy fix. And I hate it for you that you are snowed in. Yesterday here it was 73, and today it is a chilly 60. Hopefully it will warm up for the remainder of the weekend.

Tim

[TJ-Bill]

Tim, tonight I shortend my fuel filter, got new hoses, and I bought soem Sea Foam..
Sea Foam

Anyway I used about 1/4 bottle of seafoam and 1/4 tank of gas and let it ilde for 20min.. then I went for a spin.. bike seems to be working better.. I think I might go out again to see..
What do you think about the fuel line

[tim28584]

Nicely done. Does it have a natural fall to the carb, or is there an upward bend?

It looks clean.

I'm also jealous. I bought my 220 two weeks ago, and I just assembled everything, and tried to get the engine to fire. No such luck. I think the battery is beyond dead. It charged for 24 hours, and could only hold 11.5 volts. It barely creates enough voltage to get the starter to spin. I digress.