First Minor (I hope) problem with my 2005 3010 gas powered.

[WhiteFox]

The other day, I accidentally ran out of gas for the first time on my mule. It sputtered and tried to start, then died. I checked the fuel level, and it showed Empty. I added 5 gallons of fuel, and thought nothing of it, until today when I went out to use it. I cranked it, pulled the choke as usual,, and got nothing, no start. The engine cranks just like usual, just no start.

I pulled the air hose from the air cleaner off the black box and and could smell raw gas, so I think I have it flooded now. I tried a small shop of either, and it did not seem to notice that either.. I am working alone so its difficult to check for spark. The unit has just 310 hours on it, and the previous owner replaced the igniter just prior to selling it to me. I have the manual, but it is spotty at best in the troubleshooting area.

If you run out of gas do you have to reset something to get it running again?

Just back from mule, checked ALL the fuses,, all are ok.

I have noticed that lately after the mule is warmed up, when I stop it tends to idle down and quit, bt has been easy to restart..

[RCW]

There is nothing to reset after running out of fuel. However, it is likely the fuel filter is clogged with water, and that the carburetor bowl is now saturated with water.

The idle down and quit problem is not the same issue. I suspect that problem is due to gums in the pilot fuel circuit of the carburetor, or even valve lash that is too tight.

Once you get the float bowl drained, the spark plugs replaced, the valves adjusted, and the fuel filter changed I suspect it will start right up and run. As long as it starts and runs, even if it dies after warm-up, I would suspect that a couple tanks with a fuel system cleaner (SeaFoam is one) will clean the pilot fuel circuit.

[WhiteFox]

OK I failed to mention that since I purchased the unit I have run only NON ethanol unleaded fuel that it treated with Stabil. but I will tear into it next week. thanks I already have a new set of plugs for it, so thats the easy part.

Just checked for spark at the plugs, and got lots.

The water line that heats the carburetor was removed by previous owner when he accessed the jets at the top of carb, that is sealed with a thick grease, and appears to be holding. Next will be to pull the plugs and check their condition, and replace as necessary. after that I hope to be able to remove bowl from carb in place and clean.

[RCW]

You are running the same gasoline I use for power equipment, but I do not use Sta-bil because the fuel still goes flat and will not ignite easily after about ten months. I generally use a product by the name of PRI-G, that keeps fuel usable for nearly three years, longer with repeat treatments.

The problem with all gasoline, with the exception of aviation gas stored in sealed drums, is that the volatile components evaporate and the fuel goes flat. Once the fuel no longer contains the volatile components such as propane and naphtha, the engine will not start.

I used to hunt with a guy from Moscow, ID (just a spit from you) and his fuel would absorb great amounts of water every winter from condensation. Every spring he had the same problem, water in the tank and water in the carburetor. We installed an inexpensive marine gasoline and water separator on his Mule between the pump and the tank, to keep the water out of the carburetor. He then had to remember to keep his tank completely full when stored, and to use a water dispersant additive along with the preservative over the winter. It was also necessary to remove the fuel gauge once every couple of years with the rear wheels up on blocks so the water in the bottom of the tank would run forward, then use a siphon to pull the water off the bottom of the tank - about a table spoon fuel, but sometimes a bit more.

Water dispersant agents result in unbound water settling to the bottom of the tank, which is where you want it, except when you run out of gas and then pump that mix into the filters.

[WhiteFox]

Well I bought this rig last fall, and have been using it continuously since then, It had 287 hours on it when I got it, and it now has 311, so I would think that the fuel has not had much of a chance to go flat. I will look into the product you mentioned as well. And of course there is always Sea-foam.

[RCW]

It likely had water in the tank from years of accumulation. That is why it is necessary to draw out the water once in a while.

[WhiteFox]

gotcha!

[okieduc104]

I doubt that you can remove the float bowl and do a decent job of cleaning the carb in place. If the water and crud got inside the float bowl and into the pilot jet circuit and the inlet needle and seat. I removed the carb by removing the intake pipe from the intake and the hoses and air ducta and pulled the bolts and throttle and choke bellcranks, and removed the carb and the air box together, which seemed easier than like the manual directs. I didn't soak the carb. I removed the float & Needle valve and the main jets, the filter inside the fuel inlet tube, the cover assembly and then blew
B-12 aerosol Carb cleaner thru all the circuits and jets. The idle and intermediate holes in the throttle bore had to be cleaned with a small guitar string,. These are some really small passages! This little two barrel carb is fairly simple to work on if you download a good manual of the Kawasaki industrial version of the engine like the one for the industrial carbed model (FD671D/FD711D) it was downloaded after I did a Google search that RCW reccommended.
I posted photos, that I took, of the carb on another thread.

After I cleaned my carb,I used a rag wrapped around a air blow gun to seal off the gas filler and slightly pressurize the fuel tank with the fuel line disconnected behind the fuel filter and had the fuel line tied in a bucket and drained off everything in the tank, I got some water and some very fine rust out of the tank, I added a gallon of gasoline and also drained it out getting some more fine rust. I added a Fram G2 gas filter and am running it for a few hours on a full tank of gas with Seafoam and watching the filter for more rust. So far it is running ok. I probably will need to pull the tank and clean it fairly soon.

RCW:I generally use a product by the name of PRI-G, that keeps fuel usable for nearly three years

I am going to order some PRI-G and need to know if the amount advertized is ok? How much PRI-G do you reccomend for a 5 gallon refil for a 3010 gas Mule?
I probably will want to treat 15 gallons for the Mule and the riding mowers How much will an 8 oz bottle treat?

[WhiteFox]

According to one of the adds on google, 1 ounce to 16 gallons of fuel that is E10 rated.

[Shink4]

You might check the ratio's printed on the PIR-G label as I recall the mix to be closer to 1 oZ per 5 gallons of fuel. I have been using it with 91 octane premium no-lead "recreational" fuel. I still get rust in the tank even with keeping it topped off. Tried to clean and re-seal my original tank..total mess and frustration. Replaced the tank which was original to a '97 model 2510.

[RCW]

1 quart of PRI-G treats 512 gallons. 1 ounce treats 16 gallons. It has a measuring cup built in to the top of the bottle, just squeeze to fill the cup and then pour it in the tank before you add the gasoline so it mixes during the fill. Guestimates work just fine when using the product.

[WhiteFox]

And as with any packaging, the quart is a better buy than the smaller containers.

[okieduc104]

Yep If you buy 500 gallons of gasoline at a time. I usually buy 15 gallons at a time for mowers, small tiller and Mule. My tractor and serious stuff is diesel powered.
8 OZ will do a lot of gas at 15 gallons per trip. I used Seafoam in the outboards and a 12 gallon tankfull usually lasts about three days of fishing. I have had Seafoam in premium gas to stay useable in an outboard for 6 months.

[WhiteFox]

Well today I pulled the fuel tank after drawing out the fuel, even the fuel I siphoned off was full of rust flakes, (the mule IS 7 years old after all), I looked into the tank,, and it appears to be completely coated with rust. That was not what I was hoping for. Have any of you had any success with the tank liners that are advertised? A new tank lists for about $241.31, so If I can dodge buying a new tank I will,, if not,, it will at least be a fresh start for the fuel system. I will be calling BTK next week for a parts quote.

[Shink4]

My '97 model 2510 had the same problem with a rust contaminated fuel tank. I did initially try to "seal" the old tank. I found the process messy, time consuming and effectively traded rust in the tank problem for problems with silicone plugs...long story short...I bought a new tank ...end of problems.

[RCW]

The Caswell Epoxy Gas Tank Sealer does work, and better than a new steel tank, if you are careful to properly clean and prepare the tank before coating.

Caswell has a cleaning and preparation procedure outlined on their website. Follow that and you will have no problems. The tricky areas are the fuel tube and the fuel gauge. Use a heavy cardboard or plywood cut to bolt to the gauge hole, and put a couple layers of plastic wrap between it and the tank to keep it from bonding to the tank. You will peel off and cut out the plastic wrap when the cover is removed. Then the fuel pickup tube will need to be blown out with low pressure air after the epoxy is distributed (remove plastic from fuel filler first so air has somewhere to go), and before the epoxy sets up.

Caswell says to allow three days for the epoxy to cure, and that is about right. Just put the tank in the direct sun so it gets plenty warm as the epoxy cures.

Do not skimp on the amount of product you need, as it not only bonds to the metal, but forms a reinforcing matrix that keeps it from cracking and falling apart.

[WhiteFox]

Just like anything else, it pays to FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS. When I sealed my tractor fuel tank, the fuel outlet point was at the bottom of the tank (gravity feed), so all I had to do was put a plug in it. and I poured the entire quart of product into the tank, and then strung the tank up and rotated it in hopes of covering every surface, then I poured out the excess. that was 3 years ago, so I musta done something right. But it was a lot of work,, but I work cheap,, and if it saves me a couple hundred dollars, why not give it a try. Probably the most important step is cleaning.. For the mule, I might just let is harden in the bottom of the tank.

[WhiteFox]

Got the kit ordered last night,, I will start prepping the tank later today. Removing the fuel gauge, and rinsing out the loose rust, I will probably take a soft hammer to the tank in an effort to dislodge more of the loose rust during the process. and insuring that the tank is clean and dry. After the sealing process is complete, I will spot sand the tank and paint as necessary.

YUp still wondering where all that copious spare time that I was supposed to have once I retired went to.