KLF300B No Spark, I even Kissed It/Talked sexy to it, and Still Nothing?!?

[Xpider]

Hi Guys,
I know Old Topic, New Fella....
I searched the forums (not really), and found some posts,
but nothing Bang-On to my issues.

In Sequence...
Bought 1993 KLF300b Bayou that 'only needed' cdi box (igniter)
Bought and installed CDI Box... No Spark
Tested all electrics from spark plug back except regulator as I don't know how to test it.
Pick-up (Pulser) coil showed no resistance.
Replaced Pick-up Coil ... No Spark
Pulled out some hair, threw some tools around the garage... No Spark

So My Question, may be stupid but....
Is the regulator-rectifier required to get spark/Start the engine?
If Yes, Why? ( I always thought the charging/starting circuits were mostly independant of one another.)

Please help, I promise NOT to Kiss/talk dirty to/pull out hair/throw tools at those who reply this request.

Xpider

[RCW]

Yes, the voltage regulator is required to initiate and maintain a spark.

The way the Kawasaki CDI system is designed it receives an initial voltage pulse from the pulsing coil, and then the Igniter obtains stable voltage from the battery and voltage regulator to send a full specified voltage pulse to the coil.

Without either one of the battery or the regulator the system will malfunction, or if run with a nearly defunct battery you will send over 20 volt surges to the coil and supersaturate it and burn it out, and burn out the igniter.

I would pull the pulsing coil, the regulator, the igniter, and the ignition coil and take them to your dealer and have them checked. Check the igniter you replaced, it is likely still good if it was OEM Kawasaki.

Another thing to kick around. If you are buying discount igniters and pulsing coils, about 60% of them are defective right out of the box. Same for ignition coils. The discount stuff is either OEM supplier product that will not meet the OEM specifications for performance, or table scraps from China. Either way it is a bad choice. By the way, this is also true of automotive ignition components now days. Buy the best quality you can afford and avoid problems.

[Xpider]

Thanks M8,

For both the reply and the explanation.
They are greatly appreciated.

If you are looking for good deals on brand name PC-parts, hit me with an e-mail or a pm.

X

[86klf300guy]

another quick check is to take a test light at the coil its self and check the 2 wires for power 12v one of the wires should pulse while turning over if not then its the pulser/or wireing but if you dont have power at the coil on ethier legs then you have a broken power wire or blown fuse or bad battery/or weak,and if you have pulse and power and allready replaced the coil have the coil tested by the dealer or you may have a bad ignition wire ohms test the wire it should be low ohms dont know the number off hand then do a resistance test on that wire also,good luck with the repairs -corey-

[Xpider]

Hi again,

I replaced the pulser, regulator/rectifier, and have at least continuity on all leads. Still no spark. Someone mentioned a woodroff key in another post, but i can't find any information regarding it. Anyone out there know what this elusive device is and how I would check/test it?
Thanks

[unit5alive]

I think he's talking about the steel key that prevents the flywheel from spinning on the end of the crank , it one of the things that keeps everything in proper time , if you have a flywheel puller you can check to see if it's sheered off , Craig.

[Xpider]

Thanks for the quick reply...
Rgr Tht, the steel key is exactly what I meant, but I looked and it wasn't sheared off, it was gone. Had another one from a different bike, replaced, and still no spark. I'm completely lost now. My next step is to replace the
wiring, 1 lead at a time, and hope to find a broken one quick. I have no other clue what to do.
I WILL hear this bike run. Thanks again for all the help guys. I guess this is Network Tech's don't generally repair 4 stroke fuelled engines.. LOL.
-=[Joey]=-

[RCW]

Even if the woodruff key is stripped or lost it will still spark, just out of time. Or, it will make a very loud grinding noise as the flywheel spins on the crankshaft.

If the igniter tested good at the dealer, I would check the thirty amp fuse, and its holder. Then check both solenoids to make sure they are working. You have a starter solenoid and a second solenoid that controls the ignition, etc., that is switched by the key.

Attach your multimeter, set to read DC volts, positive lead to either one of the ignition coil feed lugs and the other to a frame ground, while the coil is hooked up. See if you have a voltage pulse when you crank.

Also try a jumper to the two wires that lead to the ignition switch, or attach your voltmeter to the two harness wires and read the voltage, it should be battery voltage less line loss.

Be real careful about using the ohmmeter on the leads from the igniter, unless you have the repair manual and know exactly which leads to test in what order. It is easy to blow the IC and kiss off the igniter.

[86klf300guy]

are you sure u have power at the coil as rcw stated? thosse 2 wires shold be hot when the key is on and only one wire will pulse while turning the motor over and the other will stay hot no pulse check to see if you have power with a test light and connected to a good ground if you have no power then trace the wire wire down that comes from relay and the fuse holder also as rcw said also but you have to see if you have power at the coil ....-corey-

[Xpider]

Thanks again for all the assistance.
I do have power @ the coil, but the voltages seem weak. On the pulsing side,
I'm getting .046 that pulses to .19 . Like I said that seems really weak to me, unless the coil itself is a capacitor that increases the voltage during pass-through.
Just for fun, I took the coil out of my brother's '98 Prairie 400, it's shaped differently and a different model, but was worth a try. Still no spark.
The solenoids both tested good, as did the ignitor, and I'm getting 11.8v at the ignition switch.

In the process of this round of testing, I did find a cut off hot-lead and ground in the harness close to the regulator/rectifier. and I'm wondering if
something is missing or connected wrong. These leads aren't capped or taped, they are bare, and this worries me a bit. I have a wiring diagram from a Bayou 220, and all appears the same, but I'll have to get the proper wiring diagram for my 1991 bayou Klf300B.

I'll post back when I have more information.

[RCW]

Your voltage to the ignition switch is way low, just about dead duck. 11.7 vdc and they will never run. Check back to the battery and make sure it is grounded and the main fuse is clean on the terminals.

I would suspect the cut wires are the problem. The way the CDI on these works is the pulsing coil generates a trigger and timing reference, then the igniter uses power from the electrical system to amplify the pulse to the coil.

You may be able to get back behind the loom wrap and determine the color of the cut wires and then splice to the other end, unless someone has cut off the end with the connector that should plug into either the igniter or the regulator. If you have an open socket on the regulator, then that is likely what happened.

[Xpider]

All the connections @ both the reg/rec and cdi ignitor are complete.
The cut wires are White (voltage on this one) and blk/y (ground i would think).
I'll trace them back and let you know where they terminate.

[86klf300guy]

yea the coil takes 12v and jumps it up to i think 15 -25,000 v so if you have low volt and the battery is good say the wire goin to the coil is broken inside the casein and will need replaced sounds like you have a fun one there i like workin on them hard to figure out ones lol -corey-

[Xpider]

So the Hot side of the coil should read 12v less line loss?
Then my issue is elsewhere, 'cause I only get .046.
How do I hot-wire from the battery directly to the coil?

[RCW]

Check the pigtail with the female end on the hot battery cable, and make sure it is connected to the fuse holder and that the fuse and contacts are good.

There is also a male pigtail on the negative battery cable that provides a negative reference. Make sure that pigtail is still connected and not unplugged.

With the CDI used by Kawasaki it is not a good idea to jumper power anywhere but through the wiring harness. Stray voltage can fry the IC in the igniter in a flash.

[rockylday]

I am having same problem and so have many others i have searched to the end of the net and no one seems to have an answer to this problem. I have replaced cdi, pulse, coil, ignition coil(all new from dealer). the only thing left is excitor coil that is built in to the stator . the excitor coil is the red and red with black tracer wires coming from stator cover. According to my manual you do not have to have the regulator/rectifier to get spark to the plug, it is only used to charge battery also the two yellow wires coming from stator are only used to charge batt. I hope you get yours running and if you please post and i will do the same. By the way if you could check the voltage on each of wires coming from excitor coil to ground (plz post results)mine has about 16v from each to ground and like 50v wire to wire, this is while cranking the startor. thanx

[RCW]

Not sure what you are doing with the stator, but if you jump the stator and generate 50 VDC you will definitely fry the CDI immediately.

There is an exciter or pulse coil that triggers the CDI, but the power for the CDI comes from the rectifier and is ballasted by the battery to prevent surges and damage to the CDI. The exciter or pulse coil in conjunction with the CDI does nothing more than a what sophisticated hall effect switch accomplishes when it generates a pulse to trigger the CDI to trigger the ignition event.

A bad battery will allow the alternator to generate enough surge to fry the CDI, as will a bad regulator/rectifier. If you have a good battery, you can start and run without the stator on the alternator functioning, but the opposite is not true. A bad battery and a good alternator can lead to CDI failure, and you may or may not start and run until the failure takes place. It depends on how much terminal voltage the battery will allow through after it functions as a wet capacitor to limit total voltage.

One thing to watch is that new parts from the dealer are not a guarantee that they are good. The pulse coil, the CDI, and the regulator/rectifier should be checked with a good high impedance digital multimeter as outlined in the repair manual before replacement, and then the replacements should be checked before they are installed. The checking has to be exactly as specified, as any accidental swapping of leads can lead to immediate component failure, too.

The coil should be tested with both the digital multimeter and via a load test to make sure it does not break down at high voltage due to over saturation, which will happen if 50 VDC gets past the regulator.

My short take is that you likely need a good battery and a functioning CDI, and the problem will go away.

[rockylday]

the 50v is when you put a meter on the red and the red with black tracer wires from excitor coil and they plug into cdi, is this to much not sure correct voltage. If i follow the wiring diagram there are no wires that connect the cdi to rectifier. the only common wires are the ground.

[rockylday]

Originally Posted by rockylday

the 50v is when you put a meter on the red and the red with black tracer wires from excitor coil and they plug into cdi, is this to much not sure correct voltage. If i follow the wiring diagram there are no wires that connect the cdi to rectifier. the only common wires are the ground.

.

[RCW]

Follow the service manual diagnostic and test procedure exactly or you will damage the parts. Nothing else to be said.