FI Light

[kws9999]

My 08 900 classic is about to go out of warranty. Before it does, is there any real reason to take it to dealer for the FI light. It comes on almost every time I come to a stop. I've adjusted the idle up to at least 1k as best I can tell by ear and the light still comes on. In all other respects the bike runs fine.

Thanks

[9511234]

I'd take mine in if any it was a consistent problem... especially if the warranty was on the verge of going out.

[SteelMonkey]

Why not get it checked while still under warranty just in case?

[kws9999]

Why not get it checked while still under warranty just in case?

Well I don't have a lot of confidence in the dealer. They might get to the root cause and fix the problem or not and there is chance that they could screw something else up in the process. What it comes down to for me is that if the FI light being on at idle is not doing any damage then perhaps I should leave it alone.

[BikerEm]

Something is wrong.

Get it fixed and ensure that your dealer gets it recorded on the Kawasaki database. I can't see what the EFI has to do with idle speed ...

[kws9999]

Something is wrong.

Get it fixed and ensure that your dealer gets it recorded on the Kawasaki database. I can't see what the EFI has to do with idle speed ...

In other posts on this forum, this issue has been raised and the belief has been that too low an idle speed is part of the problem. It's been claimed that the dealers set the idle low because people want their Kawis to sound like a HD. When it first happened, I did raise the idle speed and it took care of the problem for awhile. Lately, it has come back and I don't want to bump the idle speed up higher than I already have.

[BikerEm]

Well I'll be the first to admit that I could be ignorant of the true cause but I assume that the EFI light comes on only when the pressure is not fully up to working level so I don't understand why it should come on at all after initial pressure build up.

It seems to me that it's a fuel pump pressure indicator and not an oil pressure indicator after all. I wonder why you're raising the idle speed took care of the problem for awhile and why the other forums suggested that too low an idle speed is part of the problem? It's an electronic fuel pump after all. Maybe it's a voltage issue caused by bad earthing or a non optimal battery so low revs means low pressure ...

Maybe there's more to this than meets the eye but it seems very strange to me.

[9511234]

Is there another dealer close to you that can do the work?

Are you not trusting of one dealership or dealerships in general?

[Vulcan900]

The FI light is a general trouble light. If the computer sees something it doesn't like it comes on. I believe anything from low oil pressure, to over heating, to a bad air temp sensor will make it come on. There are diagnostic codes stored in the computer that can be read by jumpering a plug and counting the number of flashes… details are in the shop manual. This will point you in the direction of the problem, but probably not the exact cause.

I understand your hesitance about the dealer, believe me. I would still take it to them as the bike is under warranty. Don’t tell them that it has been doing this for a long time… you will loose the warranty coverage.

You will probably loose the bike for a month while they try to figure it out. But that's better than being stranded on a long ride, waiting a month for them to figure it out, and then having to pay for the repair out of pocket.

Mr. number man "9511234" has a good suggestion, take it to another dealer if you your not comfortable with the local dealer.

[The Menace]

+1

Vulcan900 nailed it.

[wild_deuce03]

The FI light is a general trouble light. If the computer sees something it doesn't like it comes on. I believe anything from low oil pressure, to over heating, to a bad air temp sensor will make it come on. There are diagnostic codes stored in the computer that can be read by jumpering a plug and counting the number of flashes… details are in the shop manual. This will point you in the direction of the problem, but probably not the exact cause.

I understand your hesitance about the dealer, believe me. I would still take it to them as the bike is under warranty. Don’t tell them that it has been doing this for a long time… you will loose the warranty coverage.

You will probably loose the bike for a month while they try to figure it out. But that's better than being stranded on a long ride, waiting a month for them to figure it out, and then having to pay for the repair out of pocket.

Mr. number man "9511234" has a good suggestion, take it to another dealer if you your not comfortable with the local dealer.

Exactly. Take the bike in and get it checked. It's not supposed to be on unless there is something wrong.

[pvl1964]

Get it checked ASAP. Go to your regular dealer, then if you don't get satisfaction go to another. Don't let your warranty expire without letting Kawi fix it. JMHO.

[Deeppurple52]

Take it to the dealer. They understand exactly what the inputs are and can check them quickly. FI light today = problems tomorrow.

[peregrine]

Troubleshooting the DFI System

Startability:
(A): The starter motor rotates the engine but there is no combustion
and the engine doesn’t start.
(B): There is combustion, but the engine stops immediately.

•You need to push the starter button long to start the engine.
When the engine is cold, this problem may be caused by
too lean fuel-air mixture (due to poor fuel supply, ISC valve
malfunction, water or air temperature sensor short, pressure
regulator malfunction, leak from oil filler cap, crankcase breather
hose or air cleaner drain hose).
When the engine is hot, the problem may be caused by too
rich fuel-air mixture (due to valve leak of the injectors, water
or air temperature sensor disconnection or pressure regulator
malfunction).
When the engine is hot or cold, the problem may be caused by
too lean fuel-air mixture (due to fuel pump malfunction or poor
wiring connection).

Idling stability:
(C): Unstable idling (rough idling) (may be caused by richer or leaner
fuel-air mixture)
•The idle speed fluctuates. Richer or mixture can be identified
by subdued engine sound, black smoke or smell of gasoline, and
leaner mixture by rattling sound.
(D): Incorrect idle speed (may be caused by richer or leaner fuel-air
mixture)
•The idle speed cannot be adjusted within the specified range.
(E): Lack of idling consistency (may be caused by richer or leaner
fuel-air mixture)
•The engine cannot maintain idling. The following two symptoms
may be found.
The engine stops when closing the throttle.
! ISC valves are suspect.
The engine stops when opening the throttle.
! The throttle sensor is suspect.

Driveability:
(F): Hesitation (instantaneous delay of acceleration, may be caused
by clogged fuel line, instantaneous change to leaner fuel-air
mixture, and delay of ignition timing)
Too lean fuel-air mixture is due to too low fuel pressure, throttle
sensor malfunction, loose injector connectors. The other causes
are shortage or disconnection of pickup coil or ignition coil
primary lead, and loose terminal of battery (-) lead or engine
ground lead.
Hesitation [A]
Severe Hesitation [B]
Normal [C]
Beginning [D] of Opening the Throttle
Throttle Opening [E]
Motorcycle Speed [F]
(G): Poor acceleration
The motorcycle runs smoothly, but cannot accelerate in response
to throttle opening. If the motorcycle cannot reach maximum
speed, the fuel filter may be clogged.
3-40 FUEL SYSTEM (DFI)

Troubleshooting the DFI System
(H): Stumble (due to temporal power drop probably caused by too
lean fuel-air mixture.)
When the motorcycle is about to accelerate, the engine speed
cannot increase in response to throttle opening, and increases
with a lag (longer lag than in hesitation) [B] at opening [C] the
throttle.
Stumble [A]
Normal [D]
Idling [E]
Opening the throttle [F]
Motorcycle Speed [G]
(I): Surge (may be caused unstable fuel supply)
A forward and backward, periodic slight movement of a motorcycle
at acceleration, deceleration, or at cruising may be caused
by torsional vibration of the final drive due to unstable combustion
in the cylinder head.
(J): Knock (often caused by leaner fuel-air mixture)
A periodic, rattling, thumping or pounding noise caused by
spontaneous ignition of the air-fuel mixture in an overheated
cylinder head, leading to engine damage. Knocking can also be
caused by a worn connecting rod bearing, uneven combustion
too high cylinder compression, or incorrect fuel.
(K): Backfire (may be caused by leaner fuel-air mixture)
An explosion of unburned or partially burned fuel in an inlet pipe
due to incomplete combustion in the cylinder head, wrong engine
valve timing, vacuum switch broken or air suction valve trouble,
mainly during decelerating.
(L): After fire (may be caused by richer fuel-air mixture)
An explosion of gases accumulated in a muffler caused by
incomplete combustion in the cylinder head, wrong plug gap or
burned electrode. Also it is caused by delayed ignition during
starting or during decelerating, resulting in an explosion after
the end of the combustion (rich fuel-air mixture is due to high
fuel pressure, water temperature sensor or its lead or ground
lead open).
Engine doesn’t stop (M):
(N): Run-on (dieseling, caused by engine overheating)
Continuous running of an engine with the ignition SW OFF.


Others:
Sometimes the DFI system may repeat a fault and its recovery by
itself. This could be caused by intermittence of loose connectors
or fraying leads.
Opening (disconnection) of the water or inlet air temperature
and its wiring makes fuel-air mixture richer. Conversely, short
of these parts makes the mixture leaner.
Too high fuel pressure makes fuel-air mixture richer.
If the fuel pump operates intermittently and if the DFI fuse
sometimes blows, the pump bearings could have worn.

Does this bring anything to mind?

[Scorpius01]

Troubleshooting the DFI System

Startability:
(A): The starter motor rotates the engine but there is no combustion
and the engine doesn’t start.
(B): There is combustion, but the engine stops immediately.

•You need to push the starter button long to start the engine.
When the engine is cold, this problem may be caused by
too lean fuel-air mixture (due to poor fuel supply, ISC valve
malfunction, water or air temperature sensor short, pressure
regulator malfunction, leak from oil filler cap, crankcase breather
hose or air cleaner drain hose).
When the engine is hot, the problem may be caused by too
rich fuel-air mixture (due to valve leak of the injectors, water
or air temperature sensor disconnection or pressure regulator
malfunction).
When the engine is hot or cold, the problem may be caused by
too lean fuel-air mixture (due to fuel pump malfunction or poor
wiring connection).

Idling stability:
(C): Unstable idling (rough idling) (may be caused by richer or leaner
fuel-air mixture)
•The idle speed fluctuates. Richer or mixture can be identified
by subdued engine sound, black smoke or smell of gasoline, and
leaner mixture by rattling sound.
(D): Incorrect idle speed (may be caused by richer or leaner fuel-air
mixture)
•The idle speed cannot be adjusted within the specified range.
(E): Lack of idling consistency (may be caused by richer or leaner
fuel-air mixture)
•The engine cannot maintain idling. The following two symptoms
may be found.
The engine stops when closing the throttle.
! ISC valves are suspect.
The engine stops when opening the throttle.
! The throttle sensor is suspect.

Driveability:
(F): Hesitation (instantaneous delay of acceleration, may be caused
by clogged fuel line, instantaneous change to leaner fuel-air
mixture, and delay of ignition timing)
Too lean fuel-air mixture is due to too low fuel pressure, throttle
sensor malfunction, loose injector connectors. The other causes
are shortage or disconnection of pickup coil or ignition coil
primary lead, and loose terminal of battery (-) lead or engine
ground lead.
Hesitation [A]
Severe Hesitation [B]
Normal [C]
Beginning [D] of Opening the Throttle
Throttle Opening [E]
Motorcycle Speed [F]
(G): Poor acceleration
The motorcycle runs smoothly, but cannot accelerate in response
to throttle opening. If the motorcycle cannot reach maximum
speed, the fuel filter may be clogged.
3-40 FUEL SYSTEM (DFI)

Troubleshooting the DFI System
(H): Stumble (due to temporal power drop probably caused by too
lean fuel-air mixture.)
When the motorcycle is about to accelerate, the engine speed
cannot increase in response to throttle opening, and increases
with a lag (longer lag than in hesitation) [B] at opening [C] the
throttle.
Stumble [A]
Normal [D]
Idling [E]
Opening the throttle [F]
Motorcycle Speed [G]
(I): Surge (may be caused unstable fuel supply)
A forward and backward, periodic slight movement of a motorcycle
at acceleration, deceleration, or at cruising may be caused
by torsional vibration of the final drive due to unstable combustion
in the cylinder head.
(J): Knock (often caused by leaner fuel-air mixture)
A periodic, rattling, thumping or pounding noise caused by
spontaneous ignition of the air-fuel mixture in an overheated
cylinder head, leading to engine damage. Knocking can also be
caused by a worn connecting rod bearing, uneven combustion
too high cylinder compression, or incorrect fuel.
(K): Backfire (may be caused by leaner fuel-air mixture)
An explosion of unburned or partially burned fuel in an inlet pipe
due to incomplete combustion in the cylinder head, wrong engine
valve timing, vacuum switch broken or air suction valve trouble,
mainly during decelerating.
(L): After fire (may be caused by richer fuel-air mixture)
An explosion of gases accumulated in a muffler caused by
incomplete combustion in the cylinder head, wrong plug gap or
burned electrode. Also it is caused by delayed ignition during
starting or during decelerating, resulting in an explosion after
the end of the combustion (rich fuel-air mixture is due to high
fuel pressure, water temperature sensor or its lead or ground
lead open).
Engine doesn’t stop (M):
(N): Run-on (dieseling, caused by engine overheating)
Continuous running of an engine with the ignition SW OFF.


Others:
Sometimes the DFI system may repeat a fault and its recovery by
itself. This could be caused by intermittence of loose connectors
or fraying leads.
Opening (disconnection) of the water or inlet air temperature
and its wiring makes fuel-air mixture richer. Conversely, short
of these parts makes the mixture leaner.
Too high fuel pressure makes fuel-air mixture richer.
If the fuel pump operates intermittently and if the DFI fuse
sometimes blows, the pump bearings could have worn.

Does this bring anything to mind?

That is nice but what does that have to do with his problem?

He has a DTC that needs to be retrieved befor anything can be diagnosed, once the code is retrieved it will give a more clear picture as to what system is causing the issue, and a more consice path can be taken to isolate the cause.

[LeoCreole]

I just finished building a 2002 Mean Streak, or rather rebuilding a wrecked one and had the same light come on a few times. I have the service manual and was able to trouble shoot the problems but in my reading have come to understand almost any component in the DFI (Digital Fuel Injection) system can cause this to come on. Some are serious and can lead to some real damage, or it could just be a loose wire. Trust me, the time and money problems it could cost you would far out weigh any time lost having it checked out by the dealer.

[RichLockyer]

Something is wrong.

Get it fixed and ensure that your dealer gets it recorded on the Kawasaki database. I can't see what the EFI has to do with idle speed ...

The FI light is like a "master warning" and comes on alone when there is an issue with the EFI system, or in combination with the overtemp and oil pressure indicators if the bike has overheated or if oil pressure is too low.
Problems with the EFI system will store a code in the ECU that can be retrieved to diagnose the reason for the light. Oil pressure and temperature problems will NOT store a code.

That oil pressure switch triggers at somewhere between 2 and 5 psi.
To test it, get the bike up to temperature to the point that the FI light comes on at idle, then disconnect the wire from the end of the oil pressure switch.
If the FI light goes off, your problem is low oil pressure, possibly caused by the idle being too low.
Spec for the 900 idle is 1,000rpm +/- 50rpm.

"Normal" oil pressure at idle should be no lower than 10psi.


If the EFI light is coming on at idle due to low oil pressure, it IS doing damage.

[RichLockyer]

It's an electronic fuel pump after all. Maybe it's a voltage issue caused by bad earthing or a non optimal battery so low revs means low pressure ...

Oil pressure is a mechanical pump. It is not a fuel pressure problem. If it were a fuel pressure problem, the bike would not run above idle.

[kws9999]

My 08 900 classic is about to go out of warranty. Before it does, is there any real reason to take it to dealer for the FI light. It comes on almost every time I come to a stop. I've adjusted the idle up to at least 1k as best I can tell by ear and the light still comes on. In all other respects the bike runs fine.

Thanks

My thanks to all for the great responses. I'm going to check the diagnostic codes and do the oil pressure switch test that Rich suggested. If it turns out to be low oil pressure, am I likely to run into any warranty issues due to running Amsoil Synthetic 10W-40?
Also, can someone suggest a tach for my bike that won't break the bank.

Thanks again

[RichLockyer]

My thanks to all for the great responses. I'm going to check the diagnostic codes and do the oil pressure switch test that Rich suggested. If it turns out to be low oil pressure, am I likely to run into any warranty issues due to running Amsoil Synthetic 10W-40?

If it is the MCF JASO-MA, absolutely not. If it's the automotive version, not likely.

Also, can someone suggest a tach for my bike that won't break the bank.

The problem is the 900 is a single-fire ignition. Most tachs are designed for dual-fire like the 1500/1600. Installing an adapter is easy enough to do, but not all tachs include the adapter. The Barons tach does, but it's not cheap.
Honestly, there's not a lot of difference between the electronics in the Barons tach and cheaper units, but the Baron's housing is super sweet and worth the extra money.

Cheapest way to go is probably with the Cobra tach that replaces one of the riser caps. It's smaller than the Barons tach face, but it still looks nice.