Harley KC

[pappie]

Originally Posted by peregrine

I mean, it seems that everyone else got one... where's HD's bailout??? And for that matter, where is all the bail-out money. (Man, talk about off-topic.)
Bailout:
(Oh, I guess that did come up (as someone pointed out), some time ago when the employees were asked to decrease their Health benefits and voted not to...) Yes, everything is sluggish now, because that's how you get rid of the wealth of the US, so that everyone will be equal AND dependant on good old uncle Sam. So where is He when you need him? (I mean, what's more American than HD?)

I wish they had consulted me, when they decreased my Health care benefits. Oh well, at least I still have a job. I really do wish the best for these workers, and having been without a job for 8 months in my past.
(Better luck next time voters.) (You think, if Obama would have given the bail-out to tax payers, $1200 -> for families... some of that would not have tricked down to HD? Ya, think?)

They haven't gotten one yet this time but Reagan bailed them out during his administration as he did also with Chrysler. Pappie

[Kodiakmac]

I'm not so sure that HD layoffs are entirely recession related. I think demographics might be stepping in as well.

I'm just wondering how much of it is due to the fact that the numbers of boomers who want to buy a harley - or any big bike - is decreasing. For a lot of us in the 50 and up crowd, the ride we're on now might well be our last bike purchase. So, if you're on a goldwing, an electra glide or a voyager, you've gone up the purchase ladder and possibly reached your pinnacle so to speak. And each year, the number of people who enter that age bracket is decreasing. It would be interesting to speculate what the dealer showrooms will have on their floors ten years from now.

[peregrine]

I would agree that Bush was no real help on many political issues (he's a moderate, not a conservative). In fact, he intentionally stole many of the demo's issues, if nothing more than to water them down some. Yes, he did contribute to our problem, but he did have enough common sense to see when things were getting bad (after 9-11), to give the people a break; which HISTORY shows worked. The American people got the money and put it into the economy, buying and paying off stuff they needed and wanted. This is a huge difference than what our current Pres. is doing. Has anyone here, actually saw or felt the effects of the enormous Bailout, or spending bill? Really how so? (And I am not saying he could solve all the problems that HD has. That is not his job. In a free market, HD has to make a product that will sale. Period.)

The facts are that motorcycles are generally:
1. Luxury items bought with excess income dollars (HD sales many cycles when people have those excess dollars, (history show this)… and when they don't... they can't.)
2. Less expensive (gas saving) transportation for a certain segment of our society. (Many other societies also bear this out, but the big cruisers/sport bikes don't do so well, due to their cost.) Most of these type of people do not buy HDs. (like me.) They generally look for: price, quality, dependability, gas mileage, style, price... did I already say that?
3. Free spirited individuals that love the road & the wind in their face. They will sacrifice to ride, because they ride to live. They will only stop when their health makes it impossible. (Then they want a Power-scotter Chair.)
--- On easy credit:
Having worked in the credit industry for a number of years, Easy credit is one of the main fuels for a country to have a technological booming economy. Other country's do not have money to lend and borrow easily. This contributes to their countries being backwards, un-technological, and the people not as free as in the US. (Having cash, increases your freedom options. = Try to over-tax the rich, many will move. Look at Michigan & NY, you’ll see this fact. And yes, they will move out of the US, too.)
Easy credit does have its pitfalls. Especially when the government gets in the act, lending to people, would not qualify for a normal loan, under normal credit practices (even those with outrageous rates.). The bottom line in credit is that your budget has to be able to make the payment (a concept Fanny M. & others ignored and ARE STILL IGNORING with our bail-out $.) Universal truth: If you loan to people who can’t make the payments, they will not make the payments! Sorry for the rant.

[Ruger]

Originally Posted by peregrine

(SNIP)

Easy credit does have its pitfalls. Especially when the government gets in the act, lending to people, would not qualify for a normal loan, under normal credit practices (even those with outrageous rates.). The bottom line in credit is that your budget has to be able to make the payment (a concept Fanny M. & others ignored and ARE STILL IGNORING with our bail-out $.) Universal truth: If you loan to people who can’t make the payments, they will not make the payments! Sorry for the rant.

Interesting you mention credit. I have had a GM credit card from WAY back (80's if I remember). Well my limit was something unbelievable. I could walk into any GM place and buy the vehicle of my choice on my credit card! (not that I'm that stupid). Problem is I don't use it that much, and almost always pay the total that month. About 2 weeks ago I got a letter saying that GM was reviewing/revising their credit policies because of the restructuring. The bottom line - I didn't spend enough money through my credit card and when I did, I paid it to quickly. They dropped my credit limit to $1000.00

Brilliant gobment stratigy to get me to spend more on my GM card - they sure taught me a lesson.

[peregrine]

Originally Posted by Ruger

Interesting you mention credit. I have had a GM credit card from WAY back (80's if I remember). Well my limit was something unbelievable. I could walk into any GM place and buy the vehicle of my choice on my credit card! (not that I'm that stupid). Problem is I don't use it that much, and almost always pay the total that month. About 2 weeks ago I got a letter saying that GM was reviewing/revising their credit policies because of the restructuring. The bottom line - I didn't spend enough money through my credit card and when I did, I paid it to quickly. They dropped my credit limit to $1000.00

Brilliant gobment stratigy to get me to spend more on my GM card - they sure taught me a lesson.

Sorry to hear that... but didn't GM just go bankrupt. I guess you were one of the few that was still paying. It's a wonder they kept the acct., but since you were a great customer... you are probably one of the few they did keep. (Now that the government owns GM, you might really see some strange stuff.)

[The Menace]

I hate to hear about anyone losing their job.

I saw a show on the History Channel I believe, showing the workings of the HD factory. The workers sure looked like they had plenty of pride in their craftmanship.

I still blame the media for the economic situation.

[ho$]

Originally Posted by pappie

The middle class pays more percentage in taxes than do the wealthy and this or any other country couldn't run without it. Pappie

Interesting since the upper 5% of this country pays over 90% of the taxes. So I don't know where you get your numbers, but mine come from the IRS. Funny.

It is also funny that the rich that are getting soaked under the Messiah tend to not me the really rich folks, but small businesses. These folks file their business income on their personal taxes (sole proprietership and partnerships) and so their 1040 looks like they made a ton of money, when in reality they didn't. The small businesses, who employ over 70% of the people in this country, are the ones taking a wash. Most of the truly rich people have money in places that don't get taxed or get taxed very little, while the people who employ are getting raped. Class warfare is a wonderful thing isn't it. Thank the progressives for that. A$$holes.

[ericb]

Originally Posted by powershotent

yep did you know obama stands for
One
Bad
A**
Mistake
America

President Clinton announced in 2000 that we had a federal budget surplus of $230 billion, making it the largest in U.S. history.

When Bush took office at the beginning of 2001, the national debt (accumulated over the previous 224 years of American history) was $5,727,800,000,000. By the time he left office eight years later, it had grown 86%, to $10,626,900,000,000, an increase of $4,899,100,000,000.

Lets let the blame fall on the right sholders. Obmoma has been on office only 9 months, how is he supposed to over come eight years of Bush in that amount of time. Let be realistic.


Eric

[peregrine]

Originally Posted by ericb

President Clinton announced in 2000 that we had a federal budget surplus of $230 billion, making it the largest in U.S. history.

When Bush took office at the beginning of 2001, the national debt (accumulated over the previous 224 years of American history) was $5,727,800,000,000. By the time he left office eight years later, it had grown 86%, to $10,626,900,000,000, an increase of $4,899,100,000,000.

Lets let the blame fall on the right sholders. Obmoma has been on office only 9 months, how is he supposed to over come eight years of Bush in that amount of time. Let be realistic.


Eric

LAST RANT...(I promise, to shut up.)
I don't think this is a blame game... but Obama is
NOT trying to overcome anything, but to add to it! Government spending and the debt has grown much faster since he came into office, hasn't it? (Quit, blaming Bush for everything. Wasn't the congress demo the last few years?) Obama wants to increase spending further with nationalized (free to whom?) health care. This is no blaming, just fact... that spending is and will be worse under the new administration. We need to toss out all politicians that vote for such wasteful (pork) spending AND who exempt themselves from the laws that we will have to follow.

[MrClean]

Originally Posted by ericb

Lets let the blame fall on the right sholders.

The economy took a Trillion dollar hit on 9/11 but we shouldered it. At the same time our wonderful congressional regulators were loosening standards for Fannie Mays and Freddi Macs pushing and pushing for people who were not reliable apartment renters to get loans for houses that were even more expensive, hoping, praying for a economical collapse that would leave them and the press laying the whole shebang on the presidents feet and making them look like the saviors that they clearly are not. Without the housing credit problems NONE of the current economical problems would exist.

However, having the party of fiscal responsibility running around and spending money like they were dyed in the wool Democrats didn't help anything either. There's plenty of blame to go around but mostly it is the apathy of the American people too damn lazy to do their own work and to well tuned into reality TV to know that their big break is just around the corner if they can just be bad enough, slothful enough, have enough children or be a total side show freak so that they'll never have to 'work' again.

Frankly, you all make me sick. Now, where we gonna ride to for supper cuzz I'm tired of this crap.

Peace through superior firepower

[badfinger]

Originally Posted by Ruger

I don't remember defending either administration. I was just asking questions. As to "who" try this reference. I don't see Bush asking for this package anywhere.

Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I think Bush did go along with it, but it wouldn't have mattered if he vetoed, it, it would have passed with or without Bush -after all he was a lame duck at that point. But then that still begs the question.

yes i remember bush submitted a bill congress revised it.......or expanded it to say the least....but in the end who signed it??? some of ya all need to wake up and smell the coffie and start holding both parties accountable for the shape of the country..instead of just sittin there picking at one.........or we ll never get a viable 3rd party.....

[Ruger]

Originally Posted by badfinger

yes i remember bush submitted a bill congress revised it.......or expanded it to say the least....but in the end who signed it??? some of ya all need to wake up and smell the coffie and start holding both parties accountable for the shape of the country..instead of just sittin there picking at one.........or we ll never get a viable 3rd party.....

It doesn't appear that he submitted or revised it. But that really doesn't matter it passed. That was extremely bad and I was upset about the passage of that bailout.(BTW my representative voted against the bailout and yes I talked to him about it - how did your's vote?) By those standards the current administration is at the least 3 times worse than what Bush did. I would love to see a 3rd party arise, I voted for more Libertarians than any other party, and I do smell the coffee - fortunately those smells don't come from huffpo, DU, Koz, or moveon.

[TejasDevil]

Just for fun I just checked, and Harley is up 23% since the time of this announcement. Lots of ways to analyse this, I assume the market feels this will help their financials, but I'm guessing it's more indicative of a business model problem in the current market.

On the politics side, it boggles my mind that there are so many lefties on this board. Don't you realize that the very people you support are those that will likely attempt to take away your right to ride a motorcycle?

With nationalized healthcare, just as they will regulate saturated fat and impact your whopper and big macs, they will determine that riding motorcycles is too risky and that it's not fair to burden a national healthcare system with your excessive risk. Don't believe it?, just wait my friends.

[Kodiakmac]

Amen TejasD. Take it from an old Canuck who has seen his country go from a country of tough, self-reliant folks, to a nation of whining, useless, lefties.
I know just where you folks are heading...the same place Trudeau took us.

Take heed. The government-controlled insurance industry in Quebec has already effectively outlawed an entire class of sportbikes in that province. Too risky, you know...

If you're the guy or gal who claps for 'green' initiatives, supports hunting bans, and thinks that 'safety' in all its guises is a good thing, then take a good long look at your future. Once the safety NGOs team up with the enviro NGOs and Gov't...you've had it.

[header108]

Well all this does not worry me because in 10 years we well all be eating rice and speaking Chinese.
When we gave them are jobs we also gave them are money,we well be beging them for money just to eat,and that you can thank your good old american bussiness for try to make quick profit and selling out there own country and workers.
The only people that are buying Buicks now are the Chinese!!

[pappie]

Originally Posted by header108

Well all this does not worry me because in 10 years we well all be eating rice and speaking Chinese.
When we gave them are jobs we also gave them are money,we well be beging them for money just to eat,and that you can thank your good old american bussiness for try to make quick profit and selling out there own country and workers.
The only people that are buying Buicks now are the Chinese!!

+10,000 and it was both parties are responsible for this mess. Before China everything was going to Mexico, my ex lost her job at Stanley Tools to them in 2000. Pappie

[pappie]

Originally Posted by header108

Well all this does not worry me because in 10 years we well all be eating rice and speaking Chinese.
When we gave them are jobs we also gave them are money,we well be beging them for money just to eat,and that you can thank your good old american bussiness for try to make quick profit and selling out there own country and workers.
The only people that are buying Buicks now are the Chinese!!

+10,000 and it was both parties that are responsible for this mess. Before China everything was going to Mexico, my ex lost her job at Stanley Tools to them in 2000. Pappie

[pappie]

Originally Posted by header108

Well all this does not worry me because in 10 years we well all be eating rice and speaking Chinese.
When we gave them are jobs we also gave them are money,we well be beging them for money just to eat,and that you can thank your good old american bussiness for try to make quick profit and selling out there own country and workers.
The only people that are buying Buicks now are the Chinese!!

+10,000 and it was both parties that are responsible for this mess. Before China everything was going to Mexico, my ex lost her job at Stanley Tools to them in 2000. Pappie

[pappie]

Originally Posted by header108

Well all this does not worry me because in 10 years we well all be eating rice and speaking Chinese.
When we gave them are jobs we also gave them are money,we well be beging them for money just to eat,and that you can thank your good old american bussiness for try to make quick profit and selling out there own country and workers.
The only people that are buying Buicks now are the Chinese!!

+10,000 and it was both parties that are responsible for this mess. Before China everything was going to Mexico, my ex lost her job at Stanley Tools to them in 2000. Pappie

[Ruger]

Everyone needs to go back and read 3 books (but I'll bet some on here never read them to start with) Animal Farm being #1, then Brave New World, then 1984! Do they even have students read these anymore or are they not PC enough? For those who have read Animal Farm, I think you will agree that the Pigs have moved into the Farm House and the next thing you will notice is what is painted on the barn is about to change to "ALL ANIMALS ARE EQUAL BUT SOME ANIMALS ARE MORE EQUAL THAN OTHERS"