saw this at work today..

[CTRider]

Originally Posted by badlandsbrett

HD is no different then Ford, Chevy and Dodge parts are made over sea's, Does that make them any less an American company The argument is that for the most part the money stays in America or at least the profits from the sale of the vehicle and more they pay taxes or at least more taxes.

Metric companies pay millions a year in taxes - not just on the money earned, but on the factory buildings and the property they sit on. Plus, all those employees that work in the US pay taxes on their salaries.

And, yes, I do think exporting jobs makes them less American. When a guy in Mexico or Canada replaces a guy in Michigan doing the same job, that's not American.

As far as the profits, those are invested in stocks and other investments: in global companies. Profits the CEO's make are invested in ways to avoid as many taxes as possible.

Metric Companies profits go overseas that dose not meen that the bikes that are assembled here that money is given to the American labor and the American dealers also make money but like they are not American Companies.

Companies like Honda employ hundreds of thousands of Americans - and tend to avoid the massive layoffs that companies like GM give out. The reason? The execs for Japanese companies make far less than the American ones. They don't dump 5000 jobs to raise the stock price, then reward themselves with a bonus for showing an increase in profits.

I'd rather the profits they do make go over seas and have thousands of workers being laid off by a company where the CEO is only in it for his own profit. The workers are the ones who keep the economy rolling by buying homes, cars and other consumer goods each and every day. Plus, they are the ones having the kids who will be the next generation of tax payer.

All many "US" companies do is export jobs (or eliminate them) and potentially create a large base of people living off government assistance.

Nothing is truely 100% American anymore except maybe corn. But when we buy American much more of our dollars stay here and help out economy. HD like everyother smart company has to go outside for certain things.

How does the money that goes to the top of the company heap help our economy? All companies with a base of operation here pay taxes - lots of them. The CEO's of Japanese companies invest their money in the same types of investments as other CEO's. They buy many of the same products. Some of them own residences here and pay property tax on them.

In fact, many so-called American companies base operations abroad specifically to avoid many of the taxes they would normally pay.

Example ; Cabinets being made in China have become a huge business and have killed many small cabinet shops because of the requirements from our goverment and AQMD we cannot produce and use a good quality finish on cabinets here in California its a little better in other states. But the hardeners and chemicals that were allowed to used takes longer to set, do not get as hard, will fade and discolor. So China is allowed to make a better product and sell it here in the States but we have to sell an inferior product.

Um, the reason the chemicals China uses are potentially "better" is that they are often found to use dangerous substances - like lead, arsenic and formaldehyde. Those things do work better, but have been banned for a reason. However, China doesn't have such a distinction between safety and profit.

China is outselling you because they sell cheap (often paperboard and laminates) "slap it together" assembly line merchandise. Even stuff from Ikea is an improvement over that. People buy it, though, because it looks good enough and is much cheaper.

More people might buy your stuff if they weren't being laid off by their American corporate employers in an effort to jump the stock price a few points. That's why many layoffs happen around Fall: to show a fiscal year-end profit.

Our own Goverment forces us to go outside our country to buy products gives other countrys tax breaks to sell here and taxes us more.
Did you know that we sell our oil to other countries for less money then we buy oil for? and we keep electing these A-holes and they keep rasing our taxes and they increase there benefits. Nice.
Sorry for the rant.

Actually, there are no tax breaks for foreign companies importing products. In fact, there are tariffs. The reason those things can be imported so cheaply is that it's an American company outsourcing it. Therefore, they don't pay those tariffs.

That's why Japanese companies have factories here: they don't have to pay the tariffs when they make it here. However, American companies don't pay them no matter where it's made. All things considered, I'd rather American labor build Japanese products than Chinese labor building American products.

Companies turn to places like China because (in the short term) it's cheaper. However, in the long term, it will eventually bite them. When you have stuff built there, you have to pay upfront, there are no refunds, no free replacements for defective merchandise, often you can buy individual parts for the products and the quality drops over time once the initial quality control relaxes.

What does that mean? In the short term, you have a cheap product people buy because it's cheap. Eventually, though, people get burned enough by having to replace the stuff on their own dime (the warranties suck on that stuff) and start paying a little more for quality. Next thing you know, it's companies like Toshiba, Panasonic and Sony getting people's money instead.

[Trashman900C]

^^^^well said....

[MrClean]

I'll back up some of the things you rant about there CT as soon as we agree to stop paying millions of bucks to quaterbacks, baseball players, actors and Union execs who gladly tell their wards to shutup and pay their dues.

And as far as quality, as soon as everyone makes a Dyson version of whatever their making, I'm paying for that. That sucker is one good vacuum. I don't know if that has anything to do with what we're talking about, I just wanted to say MAN what a good vacuum. I'm giving my daughter my old one and buying a new one. The old one isn't worn out, it works well, but she needs a better vacuum and my dog ate a couple of my attachments.

Its a good vacuum and I don't care if it's made in Guandalabalbamalam!

[brwdarr]

have any of you tour the harley factory? I have and I can assure you that at least 80% of the motorcyle parts are made there. even the kickstand and air breather cover are made and krome there. japs bike are assemble here, but made in japan. there is a difference. I own both. a kawa and a harley so I am not bias. just stating facts. tour the york plant and see for yourself.

[Hot Cruiser]

I did QA for a company which makes and imports lead/acid batteries of various sizes. Imported batteries from Japan - first rate quality but expensive, and the Japanese set up their own U.S. company and cut off our supply. Then we got a factory in the U.S. - product was not anywhere near the quality of the Japanese ones. Then got a factory in Mexico - quality was better, but still not up to standards. Began importing batteries from China - generally better quality than those made in our own plant - were not pretty to look at when opened up, but we had many less problems with them in service - much better than our formerly U.S. - produced product.

[the recluse]

Originally Posted by MrClean

I'll back up some of the things you rant about there CT as soon as we agree to stop paying millions of bucks to quaterbacks, baseball players, actors and Union execs who gladly tell their wards to shutup and pay their dues.

Agreed. Why pay some dumbass that does nothing in particular than throw and/or hit a ball? Does he really need to be paid MILLIONS of dollars only to blow it all some 5 years later?

I understand capitalism and parts of it disgust me...dump 5000 jobs to give ONE MAN a $1.2 BILLION dollar bonus?!?!? How much fricken money do you need?

Everything in this "free market" system of ours is based on greed and is lining itself up for implosion. With lobbyists partitioning government on behalf of corporations, it's no wonder that America looks as bad as it does.

You figure between Federal taxes, state and local taxes, communications taxes, sales tax, gas tax, etc., etc., Americans are taxed some 52%! We have the highest labor rates in the world because we live on less than half of it....

This world is broken...

[barry5k]

So what was in the box? The whole bike or just a seat or something??

[9511234]

Originally Posted by anarkust

I sense this thread being deleted since the first post.

It's still around... hopefully long enough for me to e-mail it to my dad.

[bobkat]

CTRider, thank you so much for the insightful and informed response! I love how working class people in this country buy into the corporate line about our big bad government. Corporations go over seas for one reason, TO MAKE OUTLANDISH MONEY!!! I agree with the thoughts expressed about Japanese manufacturers making products here. The Japanese producers seem to care much more for their employees than the big three.

[GreenDragon]

Originally Posted by MrClean

I'll back up some of the things you rant about there CT as soon as we agree to stop paying millions of bucks to quaterbacks, baseball players, actors and Union execs who gladly tell their wards to shutup and pay their dues.

Totally! I cant understand why school teachers that teach our children are paid crap, yet a dude playing a game gets paid millions a year. Its rediculous.

Originally Posted by MrClean

And as far as quality, as soon as everyone makes a Dyson version of whatever their making, I'm paying for that. That sucker is one good vacuum. I don't know if that has anything to do with what we're talking about, I just wanted to say MAN what a good vacuum. I'm giving my daughter my old one and buying a new one. The old one isn't worn out, it works well, but she needs a better vacuum and my dog ate a couple of my attachments.

Its a good vacuum and I don't care if it's made in Guandalabalbamalam!

Agreed. I bought a Dyson last year and it is definitely one great sucker! (pun completely intended) I picked it up after returning the Kirby vacuum that my wife purchased (during an apparent moment of insanity) for $2000. I came home, found out about the vacuum and heard the price she paid, flipped out, argued for the rest of the night especially after making the comment that "the Kirby must be a REALLY good vacuum cuz I can feel it sucking the money outta my wallet.." and "whats next? A $900 toaster..?!", returned the Kirby the next day and picked up the Dyson for a quarter of the price. Then when we got home I vacuumed a rug that the Kirby salesman vacuumed the previous day during their presentation and it filled the Dyson container with almost an inch of pet hair. Then the wife was all pizzed off that Kirby is a rip off. LoL!

[vn900chopper]

I blame it all on tree huggin hippees

[skiman762]

man can't we all just get along

[reddwar]

I think it is the dam kids and there motorcycle faut.

red

[scarpie]

Originally Posted by doughrek

i have to send this photo to so many people i am alway getting it from the rest of the guys about jap crap,i tell them i want reliabilty not a name happy days now

[QKENUF4U]

hardleys forks are SHOWA - made in japan
electronics - nipadenso (theres another maker i forget)- made in japan
rims - japan
tires - japan
carbs - japan
nothing made in america anymore that i know of......
assembled - YES
made/manufactured - NO

[skiman762]

pistons Germany
brakes Italy

and don't overlook fuel injection and counter balancers that are marketed like a new invention.

[THRILLA]

CTrider: good post.
Try and buy a pair of shoes not made in china, I dare you. I wear shoes made in Germany as a protest. Yea $225.00 a pair, but I get compliments on the things, people do recognise quality, but you have to be willing to pay for it.

[Zamman]

Originally Posted by Badmedicine

Those are funny as heck ! Back in the 80's I worked for a Volvo dealer, the 700 series cars had GM/AC/Delco blower motors in them, Volvo wanted like $180 for one, I could go next door to the Chevy store, and buy the exact same blower motor for $70 ! That was an expensive blue and white box that said Volvo on it ! Now I wire up equipment that was made in Germany, so places can make American products. Seems like the line between foreign and American, keeps getting blurier by the minute, I pretty much just buy what I want, that I like, that I think will serve me well .

Is "blurier" a word? Not that I don't think it should be, but just asking because I hate it when my 9 yr old beats me in Scrabble.

[the recluse]

Originally Posted by QKENUF4U

hardleys forks are SHOWA - made in japan
electronics - nipadenso (theres another maker i forget)- made in japan
rims - japan
tires - japan
carbs - japan
nothing made in america anymore that i know of......
assembled - YES
made/manufactured - NO

Funny, cause the local Hardley dealer had a good price on a new 90/90 for my VN800, but told me they couldn't install it on my metric rim... too bad...

[Trashman900C]

Originally Posted by the recluse

Funny, cause the local Hardley dealer had a good price on a new 90/90 for my VN800, but told me they couldn't install it on my metric rim... too bad...

Why not?