Beware of auto oil and additives

[Ron -Dog]

Hey P, Do you mean this? RD Here is a short description of the diesel engine categories, starting with the most current.
CH-4 is a proposed category at this time, which we anticipate being finalized during the first half of 1999. CH-4 is being developed to address engine design changes required to meet new 1998 EPA emission standards.

[Phatboy]

Just hoping for some debate instead of concensus =/

[Ron -Dog]

P, I've never used any (diesel rated oil) in my bikes,but I know alot of guys that do. I guess if it makes a guy sleep better at night it's the ticket. I've got some friends that run nothing but synthetic,and swear by it too. Kinda like wearing clothes outside in the winter,some can't get enough on,and some need less! RD

[ppark]

Originally Posted by Phatboy

If what the original poster said is true that the oil breaks down faster with auto oil then that would with moto oil then that would mean a shorter changing interval. I doubt the oil would loose viscosity at less than a thousand miles as was claimed. If the auto oil is braking down sooner that'd proably mean a 2000 mile interval which is what most people are doing anyways as opposed to the recommended 2500. Just playing devil's advocate and doing a little guesswork here With synthetic you are supposed to be able to go 5k intervals.

So my point is that even if auto oil does break down faster you should be able to use it as long as it isn't energy conserving. I'm using oil for diesels which I suspect is even better than the moto oil =P
What?? Is your oil ch-4 rated?? =P

ps this one might be a thread killa 4 sure =P

Recommended oil change is 2500 mi? My MS recommended oil change is 7500 miles (but almost nobody follows this schedule). I switched to synthetic and I am going to change it every 4000 miles or so.

[Ron -Dog]

ppark,I like you can't even think of going 7500 miles on a oil change with anything,car,bike,ect. My Explorer says every 5000 miles,but gets it changed at 2500. I think it really depends on the conditions you operate your machine in. But for the price of four quarts of oil,and a filter,it's not a big issue! I use the Wal-Mart ST 7317 oil filter on my bike. It's rated among the best,is available locally,and at 2.07 per filter,it dosen't make any sense to spend more time looking around to find something better. RD

[Ron -Dog]

Hey P, why do you use the oil? Maybe I'm missing something? RD

[Phatboy]

Originally Posted by ppark

Recommended oil change is 2500 mi? My MS recommended oil change is 7500 miles (but almost nobody follows this schedule). I switched to synthetic and I am going to change it every 4000 miles or so.

2500 is average- most changing between 2-3k. I was just playing devils advocate and throwing some numbers out. You're right that the manual calls for 7500 and you can do that if you're doing a lot of touring. Some might not do that in a year in which case mileage might not be the determining factor in oil change intervals.

[Phatboy]

Originally Posted by Ron -Dog

Hey P, why do you use the oil? Maybe I'm missing something? RD

Just doing a little taunting in the previous thread =P I'm using Shell Rotella T for the last two oil changes because it is the best oil for the money and has been used widely in our bikes. Went with the syn 5w-40 the first time. The second time they were out of syn so I sent with the dino 15w-40 and blended it with what I had left of the syn. Something like $6 for a gallon of dino and $13 for a gallon of syn at walmart. I've heard of vulcans with 100k+ miles running the 15w-40 dino.

[Ron -Dog]

That makes alot of sense! I think I'll give it a try! Thanks RD

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by Phatboy

2500 is average- most changing between 2-3k. I was just playing devils advocate and throwing some numbers out. You're right that the manual calls for 7500 and you can do that if you're doing a lot of touring. Some might not do that in a year in which case mileage might not be the determining factor in oil change intervals.

I'll chime in here and leave everyone in shock...my '02 Dodge Dakota gets it's oil changed religiously - every 10,000 miles. I've been using Mobile 1 since day one and have had no problems... There is no smoking, and the oil level drops less than 1/2 qt in 10,000 miles. Got 78,000 miles on it now and expect to see 200,000 before I trade it in for a new one. My little Dodge/Mitsubishi ran 175,000 miles with that treatment and was still going strong when I traded up.

Now for the scoot - I changed the oil in the Nomad for the first time when we got home from Kentucky with 9,000+ showing on the odo. That was 3,000 miles since the previous owner changed it. I used a Kawasaki filter and oil from the dealer. Next change will be in abut 1,500 miles at 12,000. I'll use the WallyWorld filter and change out to Mobile 1. Oil changes from then on will be at 7,500 to 10,000 miles. Engine temps aren't any higher than my truck and the revs are about the same. Yes, the clutch is oil bathed and there may be some clutch materal floating around in the oil. But, I don't do (much) hard accelleraton and that is what the filter is designed to catch.

I'm looking forward to the day when filter manufacturers catch up the the air purification guys in my business. 35 microns - HAH! Try filtering down to less than 1 micron - THAT would be an oil filter!

[Ron -Dog]

Big John,thats like using chicken wire,for your back door screen! RD

[Phatboy]

Big John- do you do oil analysis?

Amsoil claims double the manufacture's recommended interval which would be 15k so if you're running mobil 1 and changing at 10k that seems feasible to me. Like most in here I'm going to change mine every 2k.

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by Phatboy

Big John- do you do oil analysis?

Amsoil claims double the manufacture's recommended interval which would be 15k so if you're running mobil 1 and changing at 10k that seems feasible to me. Like most in here I'm going to change mine every 2k.

I use to do analysis in both my airplane and in my vehicles. After running over 100,000 miles on three cars and the analysis showed no preseptable signs of contamination, I quit. I'll probiably pick it up again on the scoot for the first 50,000.

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by Ron -Dog

Big John,thats like using chicken wire,for your back door screen! RD

1 micron? That's HEPA filter range...35 microns, that's three strand barbed wire....

[KyBoy]

I used kawasaki oil first year but switched to Castrol Syntec 20-50.
I don't know alot about the chemistry of oil but most seem to agree the
synthetic oils are good in motorcycles .
What are the opinions of this group ?

[Phatboy]

Sythetics offer better protection in extreme situations such as cold starts and if/when the bike overheats. Synthetic offers longer oil change intervals. Some claim that synthetic offers less friction and better mpg, but I'm not sold on that idea

Keep in mind that due to a lawsuit, some manufactures can call their group III oils synthetic even though they are not. The true synthetics would be Amsoil, Royal Purple, Redline, and Mobil 1 (maybe I missed a couple). Granted the group III 'synthetics' are a good oil and almost as good as a true syn. I've got a gallon of Rotella's 'synthetic' waiting for my next oil change

[uechi kid]

I don’t get it. We spend thousands and thousands of dollars on accessories for our bikes then we are worried about a few bucks when it comes to the kind of oil we buy for our bikes. I don’t think so. I say “use the best oil you can find designed for wet clutch motorcycles”. Come on, it’s your engine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Xlr8n]

Originally Posted by Phatboy

Now you're saying the motorcycle oils don't break down as fast as the auto oil. Any way to back that claim? That has been the hype coming out of dealerships for years.

Much of the info posted by JK591 was also published in a recent article on motorcycle oils that was in one of the latest cycle mags, and I suspect that may have been one of his sources. I'll try to check which magazine it was in tonight. The theory of the tranny being too harsh on conventional automotive oils does make sense. In a transmission, the oil is exposed to a different environment than the traditional 'linear' friction of regular engine surfaces. Several oil manufacturers do state that they have specific additives that are intended to stabilize the oil in the motor/tranny environment, but aside from laboratory testing, it is not known exactly what those additives would be. I would think that this argument would hold more water in a high revving sport bike than a relative low rpm V-twin cruiser, but it is still something to consider. A good home test would be to run auto oil for say, 2000 miles, and then motorcycle specific oil for 2000 miles, then have oil analysis done on both samples. I would also guess that the dino auto oils would be more at risk to breakdown than the synthetic auto oils due to the transmission. I personally used automotive type dino oil for my third oil change, but will probably go back to a motorcycle blend next time just for peace of mind. I agree with the above statement, that when considering the overall price of the investment, a couple more bucks for the most recommended oil is cheap insurance.

[Plato]

[quote=Ron -Dog]P, I've never used any (diesel rated oil) in my bikes,but I know alot of guys that do...QUOTE]

Funny thing tho, I read the fine print on a jug of Kawasaki 20W-50 and it says its good for diesel engines.

[Plato]

Originally Posted by Phatboy

...So my point is that even if auto oil does break down faster you should be able to use it as long as it isn't energy conserving. I'm using oil for diesels which I suspect is even better than the moto oil =P
What?? Is your oil ch-4 rated?? =P

Here's the expierment I want to see: Go buy two identical bikes. Fill one with Mobil-1 20W-50 V-twin. Fill the other with Mobil-1 15W-50 (auto). Now ride em hard over identical roads at identical speeds. Run test for 5k.

Now drain em and test the oils. Does anyone really believe one will be "broken down" more than the other ?

I don't buy it, and until I see this expierment I will continue in my crazy belief that this whole theory is horse hockey

But heh, some people feel the need to pay good money for a bottle filled with water -golly gee it is low fat and low carb, where do I buy ?