Motorcycle safety question for the board

[Lattimer]

This sort of stems from the full face helmet thread, and I have seen many threads like it on this board. So, please nobody take this as an insult or whatever. Its just my curiousity getting the better of me.

Why is it that the vocal majority of this board is so hugely safety oriented?

Don't get me wrong, I work in a dangerous industry where one wrong move could wipe out southern NJ and Philadelphia, literally killing millions of people. So I certainly understand safety, not just for myself, but moreso for the people around me.

I do understand certain safety procedures should always be explained to new people, and then they must make their own choices from there. I agree wholeheartedly.

But every time someone mentions helmets here, there is a torrent of responses saying "Only a full face is any good and I don't see why anybody would wear anything else" etc. Of course, you always hear "the full face saved my life" and "so-and-so wouldn't be here today without his helmet".

Of course, I respect anyone's opinion and the right to express it. I guess I just don't see things from the same angle.

I ride my motorcycle both for basic transportation to and from work (1/2 hour drive each way), and for recreation. Before buying my Meanie (which is my first road bike), I road for about 10-12 years off road, both motorcycles and ATV's. I have been on the road for 2 years, about 9000 miles on my MS. Yes, I am relatively new to some of you, and maybe not so much to others.

Straight to my point: I can't see a good reason to be in total discomfort during an activity that I consider recreation. In 90 degree heat, I refuse to wear anything more than a t-shirt and half helmet. I sweat through that in 5 minutes!!

I tried using full face helmets, and to me, they suck. As most of you know, I'm a very large person, 6'3", 400 pounds. Nobody makes a full face helmet that will fit me. The closest thing I have found is an HJC that I did buy. It is so constricting, hot, and overall uncomfortable that I would rather not ride than wear that damn thing. My nose hits the chin guard, and my cheeks are pressed by the cheek pads so I can even close my mouth. And trust me folks, nobody makes a bigger helmet. I spent 6 months ordering and trying on the biggest helmets from every manufacturer. My size 8-1/4 head just doesn't fit.

Same thing with riding jackets, chaps, etc. I wear my leathers when it gets cold outside. That is what I bought them for. I am not wearing a jacket in the heat of summer. Yes, some of the fancy, very expensive jackets have vents and whatnot. But I overheat in a t-shirt, let alone body armor!! Plus, go try to find a 5XL-Tall. Nobody makes one.

So, both by default and by choice, I ride in jeans, boots, t-shirt, and half helmet or none at all where allowed. When it gets colder I wear my leather jacket, and if its very cold my chaps.

It also seems that most of the people I see on the road do the same as I do. So it makes me wonder why most of the people on this board hold the opinions you do have about safety, and why you are so forcefully vocal about it.

[Crue]

I don't find a fullface helmet uncomfortable at all. Yeah it is definetly easier to breath with a open face helmet on but then with an open face I get dirt in my eyes and the wind noise is much worse. I find a open face helmet more uncomfortable. The Shoei I bought has excellent ventilation and is very light compared to some of the cheaper helmets I've had over the years.

I almost always wear a jacket as well either textile or leather. I find once I'm moving the heat doesn't bother me and both of my jackets are well ventilated. I love riding and if I end up in an accident I want to have the best chance of coming out of it with the least amount of damage so I can get back in the saddle and ride for many more years. So far this year I've ridden without a jacket about 3 times. Each time I thought to myself "now if I have an accident I'm going to feel like an idiot with 2 perfectly good jackets at home".

[Constrictor]

Of course, you always hear "the full face saved my life" and "so-and-so wouldn't be here today without his helmet".

Straight to my point: I can't see a good reason to be in total discomfort during an activity that I consider recreation. In 90 degree heat, I refuse to wear anything more than a t-shirt and half helmet. I sweat through that in 5 minutes!!

I tried using full face helmets, and to me, they suck. As most of you know, I'm a very large person, 6'3", 400 pounds. Nobody makes a full face helmet that will fit me.

So it makes me wonder why most of the people on this board hold the opinions you do have about safety, and why you are so forcefully vocal about it.

I walked away from this and less than a month later, I was completely healed. Thats all I have to say about that.

As for your particular situation? Because of your large size (no insult intended) you are in the very small minority that helmet manufactuers unfortunately do not cater to.

For you a helmet is uncomfortable. For me, its not. Especially road rash...I know what it feels like on my shoulders, arms, legs, and knees, but I don't want to experience it on my face.

[SleekStreak]

I can understand where you are coming from. I think overall safety, and full face helms, are two related but seperate issues. I mean, I ride in a T-Shirt just about everywhere ago unless (as you say) it's cold. As for helmets, it depends on the situation.

I ride an hour to work and an hour back home. Much of it is on divided highway going 60+, so for that I wear a full helm. Hey, I'm also in Atlanta and people here can't drive for SH*T and don't see motorcyclists at all. Even when it's hot outside, I don't usually get too hot in a full helm going those speeds with all the vents open.

If I'm planning a trip, I generally plan to wear my full helm. I just got back from about a 500-600 mile trip this weekend and I wore a T-Shirt the entire time (although I was wishing for my jacket at certain times... DANG COLD!). I'm not rabid adamant about wearing a full helm. Sometimes I wear NO helm at all. I just know that if there is any one piece of equipment that singularly increases my chances of living through a major accident, especially at high speeds, it's a full DOT helmet. As I said in another thread, I can survive with some bad road rash, so I ride in T-Shirts all the time, but I cannot surive without a face or with a cracked skull.

Bike events I've been to, I wear a novelty half-helm. Stuff I've been to in S.C. and Fla, which don't have helmet laws, I wore no helmet at all. It depends on the situation. Planned road trips and 1hr one-way commutes I wear the full helm, because you never know when some buttclown is going to come along and T-Bone you in Atlanta. Chaps and a Leather jacket probably aren't going to save my life if something like that happens, so I don't worry much about that junk, but a full DOT helmet sure will.

That being said, I think the skid lids and turtle tops look cool and I don't try to preach to people to get them to wear a full helm. I just tell 'em why I do. I dunno... that's just my thoughts on the subject.

Also, it's not always a safety thing. I have a half-helm and I've tried so many different pairs of glasses to ride with I've lost count. Riding at speed for 45m to 1 hr twice a day there's just too much wind no matter what glasses I'm wearing. I get tired of my eyes watering and the full helm is just... more comfortable to me.

[Firefly]

(...)
Why is it that the vocal majority of this board is so hugely safety oriented?

(...)

It also seems that most of the people I see on the road do the same as I do. So it makes me wonder why most of the people on this board hold the opinions you do have about safety, and why you are so forcefully vocal about it.

I'm new to motorcycling so, because of the learning curve, it's a somewhat bigger risk for me right now so I'm all about safety. And I'm going to state the obvious now so bear with me: motorcycling is a dangerous sport and not just because of rider error but outside elements like cagers who might as well be blind, deaf and dumb. So, I'm going to do what I can do to minimize my injuries.

Uncomfortable gear is gear you won't wear and if you did it would be distracting. If my helmet, jacket, boots, whatever were uncomfortable I think I'd start leaving them home, too. But like I said above I will do what I can to minimize injuries so I'm not out of commission any longer than I have to be.

And personal injury is not the main reason I don't want to crash. It's because my bike will be out of commission, too.

[BigJohn]

Why are we so adamant about safety? Good question. I can't speak for the group, but, I'll try. There's a fair number of "old f**ts" in the cruser section. Most of us have been around and been down, the old "been there, done, that" syndrome. We've come to the conclusion that the "that" isn't fun and we don't want to do "that" again.

So much of the group. Personally, why do I press safety so much? Several reasons:

1. It's my profession. I'm a full time safety wonk for a major engineering/construction company. Professionally, I walk the talk.

2. It is a personal value. It is part of who I am.

3. I care about the people that I know and deal with. I consider you to be valuable and I want you around.

See, it's personal...

[NY_Guy]

[QUOTE=Lattimer] Why is it that the vocal majority of this board is so hugely safety oriented? QUOTE]

With protective gear, it depends on the activity. I used to mountain climb a lot and often wore a helmet (and always in chimneys, where rocks can ricochet around). Water skiing 30 years ago, we hardly ever used life jackets-- nowadays, it's almost universal. But you don't see someone playing tennis with a helmet, because the risk of injury is nil. On a motorcycle going 70mph, it's a whole different playing field.

I could care less what someone wears on their head, as long as they have medical insurance and my taxes don't pay their hospital bills. But I doubt anyone wants to see another human being mangled, so most folks would opt for safety over convenience (particularly with high risk activities). I don't think it's a matter of other people trying to tell someone how to live his/her life, as being concerned that he/she doesn’t get seriously injured.

I don’t wear leathers when it’s too hot and that puts me at risk. I know it and accept it. I think the same applies to other protective gear. We try to make informed choices. Full face helmets are probably safer than halfs, but motorcycle cops wear them—so go figure. That being said, it’s always a risk-benefit analysis and still a free country.

[SleekStreak]

Full face helmets are probably safer than halfs, but motorcycle cops wear them—so go figure.

That's rather funny when you think about it. I guess it has something to do with them needing to ask you "Do you know how fast you were going?" without having to undo a helm. Heh.

[RampRat]

Cuz as a FF/EMT I help put bikers in body bags and it sucks putting somebody in a body bag that would have lived had they had a helmet on.

Not to mention working somebody who might live but with a extremly reduced quality of life due to being stupid and not wearing a helmet.

Ever had somebody die on you before, when they could have/would have lived if they had a helmet on.

Ever smell death up close and personal, knowing that you can't stop him from taking your PT.

Ever seen the family of a dead biker & how they take the news of a death.

Ever been blamed for "killing" a 18yoa male for doing nothing and thus allowing him to die as he not have a helmet on was dead upon our arrivial but he would have lived if he had a helmet on.

I hate loosing people and hate the hopelessness feeling knowing ya can't do **** but watch a person die knowing they would have lived had they had a full face helmet on.

[Scruffy]

The emergency room calls them "donor-cycles" for a reason. That being stated, I have a regular old DOT half helmet, and a CHP spec half helmet with flip down riot shield for cold weather. I have pins in my upper jaw, I can't wear a full helmet. My wife wears a 3/4 shell with face plate. Our son (chopper rider) wears either an antique DOT/Snell police 1/2 helmet painted to match his bike, or a late model fullface sportbike helmet (which he prefers). Each to their own.
-Scruffy

[RampRat]

The emergency room calls them "donor-cycles" for a reason. That being stated, I have a regular old DOT half helmet, and a CHP spec half helmet with flip down riot shield for cold weather. I have pins in my upper jaw, I can't wear a full helmet. My wife wears a 3/4 shell with face plate. Our son (chopper rider) wears either an antique DOT/Snell police 1/2 helmet painted to match his bike, or a late model fullface sportbike helmet (which he prefers). Each to their own.
-Scruffy

Yep, to each thier own.

Who cares if youre son dies in a moorcycle crash cuz he was wearing a worthless antique helmet.

Who cares if you die cuz you're face was delamanated since you were wearing a 1/2 helmet.

Who cares as long as somebody is there to pick you up & put you in a body bag.

[SleekStreak]

Whoa. No helmet is worthless. And he did say it was DOT, regardless of age.

[PainlessWolf]

Colorado, 4:30 am, on the way to work, a short ride but a few miles at least. I grabbed the HJC 1/2 helm instead of the Nolan Flip Up and noticed some things on the road that you don't give a lot of thought to when the sun is up and the day is warm. Cold!!, my eyes were watering even with wrap around clear glasses on. Thats a big! detriment when it's pitch black out. Winnnnnnd noooiiise! Whats that you say?? ) ...and I used to *smile* when my Beemer ridin' buddy put in ear plugs under her helmet. Funny how early morning rides exacerbate stuff you deal with on a daily basis to the point where the thought that changes in attitudes are needed sticks with you after you're warmed back up at work. The front shifter peg being set a notch too low after a cleaning yesterday, forcing me to use the whole Heel and Toe setup this morning, thats a whole 'nother issue for the ride home this afternoon. Now, wheres that toolkit? ) ...and that windshield...and that lightbar...
Painless Black Wolf
...Here for the Dawn...

2005 Drifter 800

[RampRat]

Whoa. No helmet is worthless. And he did say it was DOT, regardless of age.

Ahhh, wrong you are. The combination of age, use, exposure and being an antique along with what sounds like a non factory paint job all works together to make such a helmet not worth a crap.

Bet if ya was to contact the manufacture they would not stand behind it and possible even say it's not DOT rated any more.

Course I suppose ya could wear a bicycle helmet and while it would not be "worthless" it would not do much good at a 20 mph crash.

[twoskinsoneman]

There's no question in the slightest that a full-face is safer than a half or no helmet at all. Of course taking the car is going to be safer still. Part of the joy of life is having the freedom to take risks. Nobody here rides their bike because it's the safest form of transportation they can find. People should have the right to choose for them selves. Most people in today's world want to choose a compromise where they still feel like they're taking the risk to do what they enjoy but still make it as risk free as possible. I personally feel it's silly to ride a motorcycle without a helmet. But I think taking someone's choice away and forcing them to wear one goes beyond silly, it's wrong. I don't like it when people get all indignant and tell you that you don't care about your loved ones and how they will feel if you plant your skull in the ground because you don't where a helmet. The same argument applies to anyone here who smokes, eats fatty foods or ever leaves the safety of your house where it's unnecessary.

I REALLY long for the day when the FEDERAL GOV outlaws two wheeled vehicles and forces everyone to purchase a government-version of a Volvo and helmets and neck braces and fire suits are MANDATORY equipment for everyday use...think of all the lives that we could save.

[RampRat]

twoskinsoneman, you ever picked anybody up off the side of the road and shoved then in a body bag???

Ever have to wash down the road and you're gear cuz it's contaminated with body fluids after a motorcycle crash.

How bout stripping a lady naked on the side of the road trying to catorgize and treat her life threatening injuries as her husband lies dead next to her cuz neither one had a helmet on.

Ever have a loved one crying on you & at the same time blaming you for her husbands death.

Contrary to popular belief I could care less if you wear a helmet, It's job security for folks like myself who place people in body bags. Personally I hate helmet laws & would like them to go away.

Sometimes I don't wear a helmet, is it stupid of me, sure but I do enjoy the wind blowing through what little hair in on my chrome dome.

Oh and what do you think of seatbelt laws????????????

[twoskinsoneman]

No, RampRat, I've never shoved bodyparts into a body bag, or any of those other experiences you've obviously been tramatized by. So I guess that disqualifies my opinion on personal freedoms. No I don't believe in seatbelt laws. I never drive without one though. I feel like it's my choice and I choose to wear one.

My point was not that riding without a helmet is safe. My point was not that seeing mangled bodies isn't tramatizing. Of course I would never tell someone "Who cares if youre son dies in a moorcycle crash cuz he was wearing a worthless antique helmet." just because the job I picked forced me to see horrible images. My point is simply people should have the right to make unsafe choices in life and should not be forced to take our opinons for themselves or be looked down on for choosing something we wouldn't. I personally don't like seeing these freedoms stripped from us a little at time.

[Scruffy]

All three of has have living wills, DNRs, and the wife and son have "part me out" cards. I am ex-military, was stationed in Europe long enough to be banned as a blood, tissue, and organ donor due to the USA's paranoia over BSE.

I've been a firefighter, and a crew member on a rescue rig. Rob was a fire/medical Explorer in high school. We've seen the aftermath. I've buried one wife who's helmet broke her neck. I'll take my chances.
-Scruffy

[Uncle Bob]

We are safety oriented because we believe it's the sound route to follow. There may be naysayers who disagree or the ever popular ( for Americans anyways, us Canadians have a different view on the matter, not that we don't have and enjoy our freedoms but our attitude on the subject is very different ) protectors of freedoms and right to choose.

Fact is that we engage in an activity that puts us a much greater risk, for rexample according to NHTSA stats for last year, we are 34 times more likely to die per mile ridden than in a cage. One factor is the number of accidents we have at a much higher rate than cage drivers and second the injuries we suffer are more frequent and severe when in an accident.

IMHO before people can accept a risk they have to be aware of it and that's where a lot of riders are severly lacking in either judgment/knowledge or even acceptance of the fact. I've heard plenty of riders talk of their plan of what they'll do in the event of a crash " I'll turn on my back, lift my head off the ground and turn feet forward..." Yeah Right ! Most riders I know who've gone down say the same thing, "next thing I knew I was tumbling along...." In the blink of an eye they've gone from riding their bikes to a human tumbleweed inflicting successive injuries on themselves.

Full face helmets ? Obviously nobody wants their face ripped off and brain injuries occur just as often from blows to the face as from blows to the back or top of the head.

As for gear, there are so many options available now, I just Googled xxxxxL helmets and came up with some options, Bell and Vega offer helmets to fit up size 8 3/4, Shoei, Arai and HJC offer sizes up to 8¼ (XXXL).

I'll never ride in just a T-Shirt since I bought a mesh jacket, very comfortable, air passes through it and it protects you from the sun so it's like sitting in the shade.

Oh sure you're free to come up with excuses to ride naked if you want to but you're also free to find a site where personal freedom takes precedance over common sense. This is a site dedicated to Kawasaki riders not Kamikaze riders.

[2WheelFun]

This topic sure has some juice to it.

I can see alot of good points being made here. I think this will be one of those discussions where we will possibly agree to disagree...in an agreeable manner?

I have 2 helmets that I wear and truth is that I wear the 1/2 helmet by choice for some of the aforementioned points. When it's cold out (30 degrees or colder) I wear the full helmet to keep warm and to keep my eyes from watering. I don't think there is a "one size fits all" answer to the question of helmets and safety and as long as we ride motorcycles...there will also be other topics that we will not agree on...BUT...can find useful thoughts and ideas from all and hopefully at the very least continue to show respect for others decisions even if we do not agree with them.