Starting problem

[LOWFLYER]

Hey guys, newbie a.k.a. Justin again. I'm also having a starting problem. Where I live the elevation is approx 1200'. When I go up above say 3000' the bike will not start. The starter works but I get no light off. What I have to do to start it is put it in first and let out the clutch while I'm holding the starter to get it fired up. GRRRR, this is a new freakin bike and I'm tired of having used bike issues. Again, this is a 06 Vulcan2k with Thunder ProCharger, Pwr Cmnder, 3" Hard Krome Exh (no baffles). Any help is greatly appreciated.

[LOWFLYER]

*bump*

[QKENUF4U]

if you change elevation you change jetting. its setup for 1200' and NOT for 3000'. it actually would richen up when you go up in elevation (less air,more fuel) maybe next time hold the throttle open and see if it starts easier (adding more air along with the richer mixture)

[LOWFLYER]

But it's fuel injected, not jetted. And I've tried opening the throttle while starting. I think it may actually be a lean condition, but I'm not sure as I'm still fairly new to bikes. I think my PC3 may be jacked up or I need a new ECU....

[Aquaman95]

What did your dyno say about a/f mix?

[LOWFLYER]

I honestly don't know how to answer that as I'm a novice motorcycle guy. I know the basic workings of an engine, but could you pls be more specific??

[MartyB6]

Justin...any solutions to your problem yet? I've got the same problem. '05 V2K, K&N Air Kit, gutted stock pipes, PCII USB running custom map provided during DynoJet dyno run, disabled air induction system. Since the dyno run / custom map, I removed the baffles from my stock exhaust (had only drilled out 3 plugs before). I took a run up to Yosemite....stopped around 8,000 feet to take some pictures, bike wouldn't start! Had to push start...850# bike....ugh! It fired up right away. I believe that the bike is running too rich at higher elev....dyno'd at 15', I live at 2,700', usually ride between 3,000 & 6,000'. I also get some serious popping (bang) at decel. I'm just not sure what to do. I'm going to contact DynoJet re: elevation changes, then I may have another dyno run done & see if the operator can give me help to create maybe a custom map for higher elevations. Let me know if you find any solutions, and I'll do the same. Thanks!

[Idaho]

Originally Posted by LOWFLYER

Hey guys, newbie a.k.a. Justin again. I'm also having a starting problem. Where I live the elevation is approx 1200'. When I go up above say 3000' the bike will not start. The starter works but I get no light off. What I have to do to start it is put it in first and let out the clutch while I'm holding the starter to get it fired up. GRRRR, this is a new freakin bike and I'm tired of having used bike issues. Again, this is a 06 Vulcan2k with Thunder ProCharger, Pwr Cmnder, 3" Hard Krome Exh (no baffles). Any help is greatly appreciated.

I do not see how your elevation is having anything significant to do with it. My bike came from Calif., the elevation here is 6500 and I ran it with no modifications at all for quite a while this summer...no problems. I have since done some air/fuel/exhaust mods and it still runs just fine but a dyno run to fine tune the TFI would be better. With our bikes being FI I would think that you need to be certain (perhaps a dyno run) that your Pwr Cmnder is at the right settings for your bike. Quite frankly these bikes should run just fine from 0 - 10,000 feet elevation. If you lived at one end of these extremes then some fine tuning would probably be in order. I'm betting the ECU is just fine. Good luck.

[LordGT]

Originally Posted by MartyB6

Justin...any solutions to your problem yet? I've got the same problem. '05 V2K, K&N Air Kit, gutted stock pipes, PCII USB running custom map provided during DynoJet dyno run, disabled air induction system. Since the dyno run / custom map, I removed the baffles from my stock exhaust (had only drilled out 3 plugs before). I took a run up to Yosemite....stopped around 8,000 feet to take some pictures, bike wouldn't start! Had to push start...850# bike....ugh! It fired up right away. I believe that the bike is running too rich at higher elev....dyno'd at 15', I live at 2,700', usually ride between 3,000 & 6,000'. I also get some serious popping (bang) at decel. I'm just not sure what to do. I'm going to contact DynoJet re: elevation changes, then I may have another dyno run done & see if the operator can give me help to create maybe a custom map for higher elevations. Let me know if you find any solutions, and I'll do the same. Thanks!

I heard this from someone else, so I'm not sure of all the details. But he said that some Beemer riders were having issues with their bikes starting and they all had PC III's. He says Power Commander is working on a fix, but it seems to be a electrical issue, where the PC III is taking energy away from the bike so there is not enough electrical left to start the bike, I'm now sure if was spark, or had something to do with the FI.

Something to search on anyway, see if you find something about it on the internet.

If you have a PC III and it won't start, you could remove it and see if it starts up. I know that may be a pain since it's under the tank I think.

[LOWFLYER]

Ok you ready, this is probably going to sound stoopid but my problem is fixed and since doing so haven't had any problems at any elevation. When you go to start your bike, make sure to hit the start button before the MPH needle gets back to 0. That's it. I tried it one day at one of the places I was having elevation issues and it worked and narry a problem since. My buddy was telling me the instructions for his nomad say to wait till the needle gets back to 0 before hitting the start button so I always did it that way and at the lower elevations, no problem. But at the upper, no start. So, try it and I will say it again: TURN KEY ON AND HIT START BEFORE YOUR MPH NEEDLE GETS BACK TO ZERO. Try it and let me know and while you're at it, take two of these and call me in the a.m.

Rogue Runner

Originally Posted by MartyB6

Justin...any solutions to your problem yet? I've got the same problem. '05 V2K, K&N Air Kit, gutted stock pipes, PCII USB running custom map provided during DynoJet dyno run, disabled air induction system. Since the dyno run / custom map, I removed the baffles from my stock exhaust (had only drilled out 3 plugs before). I took a run up to Yosemite....stopped around 8,000 feet to take some pictures, bike wouldn't start! Had to push start...850# bike....ugh! It fired up right away. I believe that the bike is running too rich at higher elev....dyno'd at 15', I live at 2,700', usually ride between 3,000 & 6,000'. I also get some serious popping (bang) at decel. I'm just not sure what to do. I'm going to contact DynoJet re: elevation changes, then I may have another dyno run done & see if the operator can give me help to create maybe a custom map for higher elevations. Let me know if you find any solutions, and I'll do the same. Thanks!

[LordGT]

hmmmmmmmm... 2 have PC III's and are having starting problems, 1 does not have a PC III and no problems.

I am considering going to a PC III also. I'll be watching for this problem.

[Destro]

I don't think the PCIII is the real problem here. I have my bike tuned for about 2500' ASL (above sea level) and I have never had a problem when I charge up Mt. Charleston and restart at 8700' ASL. Sometimes it is a quick shutdown and sometimes an hour later. Never a problem.

DESTRO

[LordGT]

Originally Posted by Destro

I don't think the PCIII is the real problem here. I have my bike tuned for about 2500' ASL (above sea level) and I have never had a problem when I charge up Mt. Charleston and restart at 8700' ASL. Sometimes it is a quick shutdown and sometimes an hour later. Never a problem.

DESTRO

You may be right, but I have a REAL hard time believing it is an elevation problem.

I wonder, what could be the problem, especially if it starts immediately after turning the key on, but won't if you wait just a few seconds more??

Any ideas?

[Plato]

Not to make light of this problem, but it sounds like Bill Gates musta had a hand in this somewhere

[MartyB6]

Well, LowFlyer...that does sound wierd, but sure worth a try next time I'm at that elevation. I've always waited till the needle gets set, the whirring sound stops, and even a couple extra seconds for good measure. I'll definitely try an immediate start after key turn next time! What "should" happen & what "does" happen can sure be two different things. My bike "should" have been fine at high elev...fact is it wasn't....once I got down below 5k' (same ride, same day)...the 'ol girl started just fine! The ONLY variable in this case was elevation (and the inevitable temp change that usually accompanies elevation). I think it's the stock ECM that can't handle the change? I don't think it's the PCIII either....

[Destro]

Originally Posted by MartyB6

My bike "should" have been fine at high elev...fact is it wasn't....once I got down below 5k' (same ride, same day)...the 'ol girl started just fine! The ONLY variable in this case was elevation (and the inevitable temp change that usually accompanies elevation). I think it's the stock ECM that can't handle the change? I don't think it's the PCIII either....

There should be no change for the PCM to be making. My '03 Meanie does not have an 02 sensor just an inlet air temperature sensor not sure about the V2K. So other than adjusting for the cooler air at altitude (assuming it is cooler up there on your mountain) the mixture will be more rich due to the less dense air. Makes me wonder if there is a fuel related component that has an unusual amount of condensation in it?

Another thing. Hurrying to start the engine before the needle comes back? Has the fuel pump stopped making its noise before the needle comes back? Would not make a lot of sense to have to start before the fuel pump has pressurized the system. What about something as simple as the vent in the gas tank being plugged and there may be low pressure situation in there that makes trouble at altitude? I would try cracking the cap if it does not start and see if that helps.

[MartyB6]

Thanks for the thoughts, Destro... I thought about the tank pressure when I was stalled. Tried cracking open the cap, no help. I usually always wait to start the bike until the fuel pump stops making its noise, and the speedo needle returns to 0, and all of the clicking stopped. Couldn't imagine condensation being the problem...I'd ridden for about 3 hours straight before stopping. It sounded like the starter was having a hard time turning over the engine...as though pressure was built up in the cylinder (battery is almost new and was fully charged)...rolling the bike down the grade & popping the clutch caused the bike to start IMMEDIATELY! Also, once I came down the other side of the pass, and got below 5,000 ft, the starter worked just fine and the bike started as always! LowFlyers idea of starting quickly after turning the key got me thinking....since doing all of these mods & getting the dyno tune, the bike does seem to start just a hair more difficult than it used to....again, kind of like there's additional pressure inside the cylinder. I tried Justin's idea just here in my garage...turn key, hit starter quick...it fired up INSTANTLY! Any ideas how that could possibly make a difference??? I don't know when I'll get back up to 8-9K' to try at that elevation, but it really did start differently by trying his idea! Wierd, huh??

[MartyB6]

Plato, you may be on to something! My gut sure tells me that it's got something to do with the custom map I had done for the PCIII. I hate to have to spend another $250 for the dyno, but I'm running out of ideas!

[MartyB6]

I'm heading in to the dyno tomorrow morning... Also, apparently there is an "atmospheric pressure sensor" that should lean out the mix to the ecu. Kawasaki guy says he's never seen on go out yet. Will keep you posted as information trickles in.....

[Raff]

It sounds to me that it could be an electrical problem, the sensors and the switches are not sync. The time delay between them could be very narrow.
Just my two cents. good luck.