My 2000 mile V-Twin oil report

[RichLockyer]

Here they are, V-Twin virgin and after 2000 miles:

http://personal.linkline.com/rlockyer/oil/m1-2000.jpg
http://personal.linkline.com/rlockyer/oil/m1-virgin.jpg

2000 miles, sheared down from a 101 to 89... still within grade, but just barely.
Amsoil will be going in for analysis pretty soon... got another 500 miles or so to go before the next change.

[BOURBON BOY]

Have you or anyone else, ever tested Amsoil? I'm a big M1 fan, but got a great deal on 10w40 Amsoil bike oil ($5.00/qt) just wondering---B BOY

[LordGT]

Originally Posted by RichLockyer

Here they are, V-Twin virgin and after 2000 miles:

http://personal.linkline.com/rlockyer/oil/m1-2000.jpg
http://personal.linkline.com/rlockyer/oil/m1-virgin.jpg

2000 miles, sheared down from a 101 to 89... still within grade, but just barely.
Amsoil will be going in for analysis pretty soon... got another 500 miles or so to go before the next change.

Hey Rich, I received my free sample bottle.

I'd like to do this, should I send in a sample of the Oil the dealer is using in my bike first? Which I assume is the same on Debi's bike as well.

Then start sending in samples as we change oil?

[BOURBON BOY]

What's the best oil that's been tested so far?

[RichLockyer]

Originally Posted by BOURBON BOY

Have you or anyone else, ever tested Amsoil? I'm a big M1 fan, but got a great deal on 10w40 Amsoil bike oil ($5.00/qt) just wondering---B BOY

On it's way. Amsoil MCV 20w50 is in the bike now, need another 500 before I hit 2000 on it.
Both it and a virgin sample will be going in.

Note, the ONLY reason I'm sending in virgin samples is to confirm older reports or to provide base data for oils not previously tested "clean". No matter what oil I continue to use, this will be my last virgin test on V-Twin.

Originally Posted by BOURBON BOY

What's the best oil that's been tested so far?

So far, M1 15w50 "Goldcap" (formerly Redcap), but nobody has tested Amsoil, Motul, Spectro, etc...
I plan on testing a few different oils, but I'm sure I'll settle in on either Amsoil or M1 15w50. At $10/qt with tax and shipping, Amsoil's GL1 rating had better mean a LOT or I'm not going to stick with it. The V-Twin sheared down to an 89... if Amsoil doesn't hold as well, it's history.

[RichLockyer]

Originally Posted by LordGT

Hey Rich, I received my free sample bottle.

I'd like to do this, should I send in a sample of the Oil the dealer is using in my bike first? Which I assume is the same on Debi's bike as well.

Then start sending in samples as we change oil?

I'm running both to get a comparison on shear stability. For example, M1 sheared down to 89. Not bad. Now if Amsoil comes back at 95, then it LOOKS like Amsoil is a winner...
But what if, as we see, M1 starts at 101... say Amsoil starts at 110 or even higher, meaning that it's REALLY a 60wt?
Now which oil holds up better? Which one would you want to put in your bike... a 20w50 or a 20w60?

I'm testing a variety of oils to help provide factual data to back up claims and help refute myths about motorcycle oils and whether or not they are superior to automotive oils. There are a lot of samples out there that indicate that they may be a waste of money, BUT, my plan is to provide multiple samples from the SAME engine, SAME rider, under similar riding conditions. The fairly narrow temperature extremes here in CA make this something pretty easy to do.


MOST people run oil analysis to monitor for impending trouble in the engine. For that, I'd run a sample at your 2nd or 3rd oil change, and then every 2nd or 3rd after that. The samples will show wear metals, but ONE analysis is worthless (unless something VERY bad has already happened)... but when you see that iron, copper, or aluminum has spiked in one report compared to previous, then it's an indication that something is not quite right, and it might be wise to run another report on the next oil change to see if it was a fluke or a real problem.

[RichLockyer]

To recap:

http://personal.linkline.com/rlockye...lla-5w40-1.jpg
http://personal.linkline.com/rlockye...lla-5w40-2.jpg
http://personal.linkline.com/rlockye...ella-15w40.pdf
http://personal.linkline.com/rlockyer/oil/m1-15w50.jpg
http://personal.linkline.com/rlockyer/oil/m1-15w50.pdf
http://personal.linkline.com/rlockyer/oil/m1-vtwin.pdf
http://personal.linkline.com/rlockyer/oil/m1-2000.jpg
http://personal.linkline.com/rlockyer/oil/m1-virgin.jpg

[Plato]

Originally Posted by RichLockyer

I'm running both to get a comparison on shear stability. For example, M1 sheared down to 89. Not bad. Now if Amsoil comes back at 95, then it LOOKS like Amsoil is a winner...
But what if, as we see, M1 starts at 101... say Amsoil starts at 110 or even higher, meaning that it's REALLY a 60wt?
Now which oil holds up better? Which one would you want to put in your bike... a 20w50 or a 20w60?

I'm testing a variety of oils to help provide factual data to back up claims and help refute myths about motorcycle oils and whether or not they are superior to automotive oils. There are a lot of samples out there that indicate that they may be a waste of money, BUT, my plan is to provide multiple samples from the SAME engine, SAME rider, under similar riding conditions. The fairly narrow temperature extremes here in CA make this something pretty easy to do...

Cost is probably the main reason I would consider M1 15W-50 the "winner" here. It seems to stay close to V-Twin and at a noticable cost savings. I just priced it at the local Walmart and the V-Twin only available in quart bottles is up to $8.12/qt, while the 15W-50 "auto" oil can be had at $28.68/5qt jug.

Also your comment about temps in CA is important. When I run my OA it can be from winter riding at temps from 25F-75F, then 4 month later I'll be riding in summer temps from 75F-105F Which is another vote for M1 15W-50 as it is a bit better at the low temps than the 20W.

Thanks for the update... It would be interesting to see what Rotella-T Sythetic 5W-40 would do in your bike under your riding conditions. I probably would have stayed with Rotella if I lived in a moderate climate.

[RichLockyer]

And those temps are another reason the 15w50 looks attractive.
By the book, I only NEED 20w50 maybe 2 months out of the year, BUT, we will get "snaps" where it'll be 90-105 for several days ANY time of the year (I think last year we had a week of 90s in Feb)... likewise, "June Gloom", which is caused by an onshore flow holding the marine layer in the LA basin until oftentimes 1 or 2pm... will bring morning temps in the 50s and ride-home temps of 95+.


Once I get through testing different oils, I'm thinking that I'll go back to V-Twin and run it to 4,000 to see if what we're seeing is a rapid early shear-down followed by a stable period, or if the breakdown is continuous. TBN seems to exhibit this characteristic.

[Plato]

Originally Posted by RichLockyer

...Once I get through testing different oils, I'm thinking that I'll go back to V-Twin and run it to 4,000 to see if what we're seeing is a rapid early shear-down followed by a stable period, or if the breakdown is continuous. TBN seems to exhibit this characteristic.

I'm gonna stick with 15W-50 for the next few changes, I might do the virgin OA like you did. My first sample on 15W-50 went about 2k and I figure to push it out to 2500-3k the next time to see what change is occurring past 2k

[RichLockyer]

Let me know if you do virgin 15w50... I had planned on testing that next (sample at 6500 miles on the bike), so if you do, I'll save the $20 and add yours to my database.

BTW: Exchanged emails with Blackstone about the differences between the "spec" values on the new vs used oil (vis range, etc...) and he said that they did in fact have some of the values switched. They are going to re-run the report and shoot it back to me.
No changes to the actual test results, just the comparative values.

IE: They expect new oil to have a higher vis than used, so the report listed the virgin sample vis as being acceptable at 82-96, while the used sample shows acceptable at 88-99, those should be reversed....

Meaning.... at 2000 miles and holding 89, V-Twin was indeed well within spec for 20w50, and the initial vis of nearly 101 is not significantly above spec (99 instead of 96). Indeed, the used V-Twin was still within spec for UNUSED 20w50.
These were not an easy 2000 miles either. This period included when I really began to get comfortable with the bike and started playing with the power a bit more, getting up to the limiter quite a few times in 2nd.

I would be comfortable running V-Twin to 3,000 miles, no question. It looks like a very good product.
My low fuel contamination could mean either of two things... I've got my Cobra dialed in pretty good, or the fact that I changed the oil IMMEDIATELY after garaging from a 200 mile ride... I blistered my thumb on the drain plug.

[RichLockyer]

Another update....

The files linked above are the corrected sheets from Blackstone. The "should be" values were not exactly reversed, but pretty close. M1 V-Twin looks like a perfectly acceptable oil at 2k, and looks like there's plenty of additives left, vis is only halfway gone....

It just might be okay at 6k.


300 miles to go on the Amsoil... I'd better get to Pep Boys and buy some Redcap.

[RichLockyer]

Just added another report to the list.
This one is RedCap, used for a 3700 mile run in a VN900 from Iowa to Los Angeles and back over a week's time.

http://personal.linkline.com/rlockye...15W50-3704.pdf

Surprisingly, the vis did not hold up as well as it has in other samples.

I think the mixed results we are seeing really shows the need to:

A - Compare UOA's on similar, or even the SAME bike, ridden in similar ways, or by the same rider.

B - Use internet UOA postings only as a guide, and do your own experiments to determine either the best, or at least a, to you, acceptable product.

[Plato]

Originally Posted by RichLockyer

Let me know if you do virgin 15w50... I had planned on testing that next (sample at 6500 miles on the bike), so if you do, I'll save the $20 and add yours to my database...[/size][/font]

I'm sending the 15W-50 virgin sample off to Blackstone today...

[Plato]

Originally Posted by RichLockyer

...I think the mixed results we are seeing really shows the need to:
B - Use internet UOA postings only as a guide, and do your own experiments to determine either the best, or at least a, to you, acceptable product.

I know we're being anal about this stuff, but I may even send in a second virgin sample on a new jug of 15W-50 to test a theory of mine. I suspect some of the variance we're seeing is possibly coming from the oil itself. I mean we assume the variables in all the UOAs are the results of different bikes, different riding conditions, etc. But we don't even know if the oil itself is identical from batch to batch

If we both ran down to our local wallyworld to buy V-Twin on the same day, there's no telling how old or just what production run each bottle came from. At my local store its a very slow mover, while at your local store it may be much fresher...

As a person who has reloaded quite a bit of handgun amunition, I can tell you that each production run of smokeless powder can produce much different results and requires you work up a new "safe" load with each new can of powder. I would hope the oil industry is more consistant but who knows ? When we see a poor viscosity number for some sample of Mobil-1, it may just be that a particular batch started off with abnormally low viscosity.

[RichLockyer]

Originally Posted by Plato

I'm sending the 15W-50 virgin sample off to Blackstone today...

Good deal.
I should be ready to send out the Amsoil 20w50 samples next week if I get my second sample kit by then. If not, then I'll send in the used oil and hold onto the virgin. I currently have one sample container at home and BS should be sending two more from the V-Twin samples.

I pack the things USPS Priority... I should just log in to US Plastics and buy a bunch of empty bottles so I don't have to wait for BS to send kits

[sherm]

Here is another point of view on oils. Consumer Reports did an engine wear analisys instead of a chemical analysis and came up with some interesting findings. Walmart oil or Amsoil - you be the judge.
http://www.xs11.com/stories/croil96.htm

Sherm

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by sherm

Here is another point of view on oils. Consumer Reports did an engine wear analisys instead of a chemical analysis and came up with some interesting findings. Walmart oil or Amsoil - you be the judge.
http://www.xs11.com/stories/croil96.htm

Sherm

Interesting article. Thanks. Still, I think I'll stick with the M1. But, will probably continue with the dino for Miss Nancy's Subaru.

[joecruiser]

Good article - It's very plausible. I've averaged about 6k miles on my suburban before changing the oil using regular dino. It now has 160k miles and still running strong with no problems. For awhile there, I also got caught up on synthetics and oil change intervals for the VN1600. However, I decided to just follow the factory recommendations forgoing any fancy expensive oils. It now only gets what is recommended by the factory-type and interval. I'll give Kawasaki the benefit of the doubt and go with what they recommend.