Weird V2K problem

[LordGT]

Ok, all you experts out there. I have a weird issue and I think it's a belt slipping on occasion. But I can't prove it. And I did have a service done and the belt was too tight so I had them loosen it a tad. It's at 3 tick marks of deflection, which has worked ok before.

Here is what happens.
It only happens in 2nd gear and
only when I'm getting on the throttle pretty good
at just around 50 mph which is just 7 mph before the rev limiter kicks in.
And ONLY when I'm leaned over pretty well, right or left, it doesn't matter.

I can NEVER get it to do it in a straight line, only in a lean. It feels like the belt slips and then catches. It's not like a tire spinning, I don't hear any gears grinding, but it's very consistent, a start point and a stop point, slip and stop, and it last only about 1/3 of a second. Not enough time to really tell if the engine rpm's spin up a tad or not, like you'd expect. It's very quick.

Does the belt have some different forces on it in a lean that aren't there in a straight line? I can't think of any, but I'm not an expert.

I thought about marking the belt and pulley with White Out, but I assume the mark on the belt and pulley wouldn't match up since I think that one revolution of the belt is longer than one revolution of the pulley. Yes/No?

If they matched up revolution for revolution, I could mark both of them and when I have the belt slip problem, look and see if the marks still match up or are out of alignment.

Anyone have any ideas to help me prove or disprove it's a belt slipping?

[Spok]

its weird for sure but i wonder if your rear tire is out of alignment that when leaned over it stresses or destresses the belt that is not happeing in a straight line?

i dunno mike

[RDap98]

Someone on the Rogue site has posted a problem with a 2nd gear issue. The posting is:

Rogue Owners Group

RE: Rogue Bug Updated: After a year that I own my bike, my second gear would slip out when I started to accelerated.

[LordGT]

Originally Posted by RDap98

Someone on the Rogue site has posted a problem with a 2nd gear issue. The posting is:

Rogue Owners Group

RE: Rogue Bug Updated: After a year that I own my bike, my second gear would slip out when I started to accelerated.

Boy I wish he could be more clear on his problem. I read it, but it's not very clear. It seems to me that his problem was 2nd gear popping out of gear under acceleration. But I"m not sure if that's what he meant.

Thanks for the info though.

[kin52]

If the belt slips you will hear a clicking noise. How many miles on your bike? I put a new clutch in mine at a little over 30,000 miles due to occasional slipping. Also might want to check the front pulley to see if its slipping although that would be a problem that would show up pretty consistently. Three marks on the belt guard is where I run my belt so I doubt thats the problem.

Chuck

Originally Posted by LordGT

Ok, all you experts out there. I have a weird issue and I think it's a belt slipping on occasion. But I can't prove it. And I did have a service done and the belt was too tight so I had them loosen it a tad. It's at 3 tick marks of deflection, which has worked ok before.

Here is what happens.
It only happens in 2nd gear and
only when I'm getting on the throttle pretty good
at just around 50 mph which is just 7 mph before the rev limiter kicks in.
And ONLY when I'm leaned over pretty well, right or left, it doesn't matter.

I can NEVER get it to do it in a straight line, only in a lean. It feels like the belt slips and then catches. It's not like a tire spinning, I don't hear any gears grinding, but it's very consistent, a start point and a stop point, slip and stop, and it last only about 1/3 of a second. Not enough time to really tell if the engine rpm's spin up a tad or not, like you'd expect. It's very quick.

Does the belt have some different forces on it in a lean that aren't there in a straight line? I can't think of any, but I'm not an expert.

I thought about marking the belt and pulley with White Out, but I assume the mark on the belt and pulley wouldn't match up since I think that one revolution of the belt is longer than one revolution of the pulley. Yes/No?

If they matched up revolution for revolution, I could mark both of them and when I have the belt slip problem, look and see if the marks still match up or are out of alignment.

Anyone have any ideas to help me prove or disprove it's a belt slipping?

[LordGT]

Originally Posted by kin52

If the belt slips you will hear a clicking noise. How many miles on your bike? I put a new clutch in mine at a little over 30,000 miles due to occasional slipping. Also might want to check the front pulley to see if its slipping although that would be a problem that would show up pretty consistently. Three marks on the belt guard is where I run my belt so I doubt thats the problem.

Chuck

My FF helmet may be keeping me from hearing any clicking noise. I noticed I hear a lot more stuff without a FF helmet on.

It happens so quick, or is over so quick, that I don't have much time to listen or feel for anything happening during the short slip. It's very quick, almost like it slips just one cog in the pulley and that's it. Slip, boom, done. Nothing like a clutch slipping issue or a Tire spinning issue that has a longer time from start to stop. This is quick, solid, done. Very hard to explain.

Anyway, I have about 19,500 miles on the bike so far.

[V2K_CCTX]

Originally Posted by Spok

its weird for sure but i wonder if your rear tire is out of alignment that when leaned over it stresses or destresses the belt that is not happeing in a straight line?

i dunno mike

I would start with SPOK's rec!

[Lattimer]

I really do not think this is your belt.

The only real change in forces on the belt (provided all of your bearings are in good condition) is from suspension compression and relaxation. You do develop some additional forces on the suspension when turning/leaning, and those forces can cause some slight change in compression. This will slightly change the force on the belt (increase or decrease I don't know without some modeling). However, the geometry of the suspension is designed to minimize any significant changes in the belt.

"IF" the belt were slipping, you would certainly hear it FF or not, and I think it would be a more prolonged event than what you are describing. You would also notice some damage to the teeth on the belt, and you might find rubber particles on the pulleys or between the belt teeth.

I would bet that the feeling your are experiencing is a stumble--either from the ignition cutting out or from fuel cutting out. That could be from any number of faulty parts, up to and including the ECU.

Anyways, that is my guess.

[Vulcan900]

I would think that making a belt with cogs of the size of the one on the V2K would take a very loose belt or an unbelievable amount of force, and either way it would shred the belt in the process. Check the belt, no shredding = no slipping. 50mph in second gear in a good lean... it sounds like you are riding the $hit out of the thing, any change in power could be a real problem.

[gdhugh]

I just can't imagine that this is a belt issue. Too many things against that theory. However, I can't offer any help to identify what is different when the bike is on a lean verses straight up. Someone with more mechanical knowledge of the workings around the clutch may have something to say about it. I just wold not chase the belt at this point.

[vn2kbob]

Is the noise louder turning right than left or visa versa. There are the dynamics of a cupped front tire and/or the dynamics of a flexing pulley under load. Louder turning right or left and how many miles on the bike? The belt tension is not too tight, I assume and the alignment is within specs?

[RDap98]

Originally Posted by LordGT

Boy I wish he could be more clear on his problem. I read it, but it's not very clear. It seems to me that his problem was 2nd gear popping out of gear under acceleration. But I"m not sure if that's what he meant.

Thanks for the info though.

Why don't you write him back and ask?

[LordGT]

Somthing may have changed, yesterday coming out of a Gas station, I was in 2nd gear, and had just got vertical, accelerating and again at about 50mph it let loose again.

This is the first thing it's happened when the bike wasn't in a lean.

[LordGT]

Originally Posted by Vulcan900

I would think that making a belt with cogs of the size of the one on the V2K would take a very loose belt or an unbelievable amount of force, and either way it would shred the belt in the process. Check the belt, no shredding = no slipping. 50mph in second gear in a good lean... it sounds like you are riding the $hit out of the thing, any change in power could be a real problem.

If it is the belt, and it slipped a lot, then I could see it shred, but it's real quick. But I'll look for signs of any shredding or scuffing.

50 mph in 2nd gear, the V2K loves it. I'm just giving it what it wants..

[LordGT]

Originally Posted by vn2kbob

Is the noise louder turning right than left or visa versa. There are the dynamics of a cupped front tire and/or the dynamics of a flexing pulley under load. Louder turning right or left and how many miles on the bike? The belt tension is not too tight, I assume and the alignment is within specs?

I dont hear any real noise when this happens, so left or right is exactly the same, just a quick slip.
19,500 miles on the bike.
Front tire is Brand new.
I assume the dealer aligned it when they adjusted the belt, but assume may be a bad thing.
I looked at the marks on both sides of the swingarm, and the rear wheel is aligned if I assume the lines are correct on both sides of the swingarm.

[LordGT]

Originally Posted by gdhugh

I just can't imagine that this is a belt issue. Too many things against that theory. However, I can't offer any help to identify what is different when the bike is on a lean verses straight up. Someone with more mechanical knowledge of the workings around the clutch may have something to say about it. I just wold not chase the belt at this point.

Man I'm all ears...

[LordGT]

Originally Posted by Lattimer

I really do not think this is your belt.

The only real change in forces on the belt (provided all of your bearings are in good condition) is from suspension compression and relaxation. You do develop some additional forces on the suspension when turning/leaning, and those forces can cause some slight change in compression. This will slightly change the force on the belt (increase or decrease I don't know without some modeling). However, the geometry of the suspension is designed to minimize any significant changes in the belt.

"IF" the belt were slipping, you would certainly hear it FF or not, and I think it would be a more prolonged event than what you are describing. You would also notice some damage to the teeth on the belt, and you might find rubber particles on the pulleys or between the belt teeth.

I would bet that the feeling your are experiencing is a stumble--either from the ignition cutting out or from fuel cutting out. That could be from any number of faulty parts, up to and including the ECU.

Anyways, that is my guess.

You could be right, although I would think if it's fuel or ignition, it would happend in any gear, when leaned over.

But then again, I don't get to lean her over in 3rd gear and higher. No tracks on the way to work...

[Scott@Baron]

Sounds like shift forks to me...

[snw1953]

Wet clutch slip?