Beag's in da Darkside hizzouse!

[zedx11]

Originally Posted by RichLockyer

Dunlop E3 and Metz 880 have a reputation as being the longest lasting... but on an 800 pound cruiser with 300-500 pounds of passenger, even the 900+ pound rated tires are maxed out at 15k on average.
A few guys get better, and some wear them out in 7k... all depends on road conditions.

But compared to a tire that'll run 30-40k, and is practically impossible to lock up the rear brake... it's just an absolute best option for a high-mileage touring bike. I wouldn't consider it if I were only putting 200 miles a month on my bike like a lot of guys do, but I average 1,000 or so, and that's now mostly 2-up. Stock tires were gone in under 8k riding solo. The E3 went nearly 14k mostly 2-up.


You saw the pictures that I posted of the "hole" and delaminated tread on my E3? I'm not convinced that MC tires are constructed of superior materials or in a superior way to CT's. Haven't heard of a single tread failure on a CT in the 2 years that I've been watching the forums.

you didn't see me say that MC tires are constructed of superior materials or anything like that. I'm sure just like everything else there are things made on Friday and Monday that aren't as good quality as the stuff made on Wednesday. I've never "personally" seen a tire go bad that wasn't beyond it's serviceable life.

handling characteristics of the tire are what I'm saying are not safe when it comes to using a CT on a motorcycle. round vs. square, round is going to corner better. ask speed about his chickenstrips if you think some of these "cruisers" can't corner (ok, most can't but... ).

I drug a floorboard in a parking lot today on a test ride (doing figure 8's to check throttle from lock to lock and scuff in the tire a little), didn't think to check the chickenstrips.

locking up the rear: if you are having problems with locking up the rear you are club footed or don't know to adjust the brake (adjust the pedal so you have to flex farther to have the same braking pressure or put a mechanical stop so you can't apply more brake or decrease the amount of pad (not thickness but width) to decrease amount of braking).

[Guitar7272]

Originally Posted by BikerBeagle

It's theoretically conclusive if all of those 'subjective statements from a bunch of people who spent money to put them on' were pretty much the same across the board. I've read my fair share of dark side 'evaluations' and, I agree, it is hard to trust the integrity and bias of those reports ...

But, there are probably no scientific studies for using a ...let's say, a wrench ...as a hammer either. Ever use a wrench as a hammer?

Yeah, I have - it didn't work that well and certainly not as well as a hammer . I don't really have a vested interest in this subject either way so I'm perfectly willing to re-evaluate my stance given more information. That being said, If I'm going to take my life in my hands by putting a car tire on my motorcycle, I would have to see some concrete, objective & indisputable proof that it is safe and beneficial. A bunch of guys supporting it on a forum is hardly conclusive proof - for all I know, a bunch of whistle blowers might have gone splat before they had the chance to say anything, if you catch my drift...

[zedx11]

Originally Posted by BikerBeagle

Maybe because they know they won't sell another tire to that customer for the next 3 or 4 years? We've mapped the humane genome but still can't create a cure for the common cold? Why is that? ...maybe because it's more profitable to treat the symptoms rather than provide the cure? Same thing ...

you doing less than 1K/month you should buy a MC tire. it'll last as long.

Originally Posted by BikerBeagle

Funny, ho ho, that the *only* place I could find to mount mine DOESN'T SELL TIRES. Coinkidink? I don't think so.

absolutely not, the professionals don't want the liability.

Originally Posted by BikerBeagle

But, there are probably no scientific studies for using a ...let's say, a wrench ...as a hammer either. Ever use a wrench as a hammer?

and the scientific study for using a CT on a MC?

[zedx11]

Originally Posted by kin52

I have all the right tools, I have a hammer, a screwdriver and a roll of duct tape. Yup I'm a real Mr Fixit.

Chuck

what, no WD40? if it don't move and it is supposed to...

[kin52]

Well dang it now I'm going to need a bigger tool box! He he good catch.

Chuck

Originally Posted by zedx11

what, no WD40? if it don't move and it is supposed to...

[kin52]

Hey just to show how safe it is I'm typing this on my blackberry while I riding and eating an eggmcmuffin. See, totally safe nothing happened to me while I .................................

Originally Posted by Guitar7272

A bunch of guys supporting it on a forum is hardly conclusive proof - for all I know, a bunch of whistle blowers might have gone splat before they had the chance to say anything, if you catch my drift...

[Guitar7272]

Originally Posted by kin52

Hey just to show how safe it is I'm typing this on my blackberry while I riding and eating an eggmcmuffin. See, totally safe nothing happened to me while I .................................

[RichLockyer]

Okay... found out tonight... two have gone back.
The local running the V2K went back to an 880.
His comment was that handling was fine, but emergency stops were touchy.
BUT... he qualified that by saying that he feels that he made a mistake in buying an 80,000 mile tire instead of a 30,000 mile tire. Says he may go back when the 880 wears out later this year.

So yes, the hardness of the compound does have an impact, which just reinforces that we need to be careful when selecting an appropriate CT. Just grabbing something that is the right size may not be the best thing.

[BikerBeagle]

Ok, I went on a 302 mile ride on Saturday and here is my report.

First of all, the tire size I now have corrected the speedo error by about ~40% ...where I had an error of 7 at 70 before, I now have an error of 4 at 70. It didn't seem to affect my gas mileage one way or the other, but we were riding more - what I call - aggressive than we usually do. We were running 70 in 65 most of the time and didn't hesitate to pass slower vehicles ...yeah, I know, I live on the edge .

I had meant to let some pressure out of the tire, but forgot to because I was running late to meet the folks I was riding with. For the first 40 miles, I was still a little leary of the ride. It just felt 'squirrely' in the rear (as I reported in my inital post), maybe not to the point where I thought the tire was wandering, but it felt like I was making a lot of corrections to hold a straight line. The friend I was riding with rode behind me and said the tire looked fine, lots of contact patch in corners, the sidewall was flexing and, he said, he could guess that there was more tire on the ground than a motorcycle tire would give. He had never seen a CT on a bike and, I think, it impressed him how it behaved ...not enough to do it himself on his Goldwing, but I felt like a lot of his apprehension against me putting it on my bike went away.

At about the 40 mile marker, we stopped for gas - yeah, I'd forgotten to fill-up that morning as well, the brain aneurism must've been acting up - and I took this opportunity to let 5lbs out of the tire ...from 38lbs (hot) to 33lbs. Back on the road, WOW what a difference that made! No more squirrely, just smooth ride ...100% change for the better. It was amazing. For about a mile, I pushed it up to 100mph on the speedo - 95 gps - (never gone that fast before, likely never will again) and felt absolutely no wobbling, no rubbing, no nothing ...it was perfect.

With all of that said, it's still different handling. On a scale of 1 - 10, the additional countersteering effort to get the CT into a turn/corner, if 3 is a motorcycle tire, a CT is a 4 or maybe 5 ...and you have to hold it with about the same effort. (Remember, I'm running a 195 tire, this is probably not accurate on a 205/215/225 tire.) I think some people are imagining it being like wrestling with a bear or something, but it really isn't. There's enough resistance there to know it's there, just something you have to get used to ...reprogram your body memory to allow for. I was pretty comfortable with it well before the end of my ride on Saturday.

Now, for the bad parts. You really have to watch those lateral (left to right) elevation changes ...a road that leans in a turn will cause a CT to 'climb the hill', overweight vehicles making 'troughs' in the road, uneven lanes and grooves caused by construction, etc. Probably because of the fact that there is far more rubber on the ground, the CT really likes to behave erratically in these conditions. Not necessarily 'unsafe' erratically, just 'different' erratically than a MT ...and to be fair, motorcycle tires are susceptable to these conditions as well, but probably not to the degree as a CT - again, on a scale of 1 - 10, say 4 being a motorycle tire, the increased effect is maybe a 5 or 6.

I'll be happy to answer any questions.

[TVoyagerXII]

Beagle, I like the reports, thanks. While I don't think a CT is a viable option for the Voyager (clearances and all) you should have heard some of the heat I took over at ABBikeBoard for going from the OEM 150/90/15 to a 170/80/15 rear, but I can say I won't go back to the smaller tire.

OMG, I only spent $62 dollars for the tire (Kenda Kruz673) at Dennis Kirk. I'm probably the cheapest SO8 on the planet.

[TVoyagerXII]

PS: I'm probably dirt, too, for using DYNA beads for balancing, but hey I've been doing that for 2 years and have never had a balancing issue.

[Plato]

Originally Posted by BikerBeagle

...I'll be happy to answer any questions.

I've been away for a few weeks, and look at the fun I've missed -another suicidal rider trying these nasty ole' Car Tires

But seriously, have you noticed any differences in braking and slow speed parking lot moves. Sometimes the Nad can be a bit shakey in the parking lot stuff, and I've often wondered how the CT would effect this ?

I do wish both sides in this debate would focus on the differences between handling requirements of sport bikes and big fat cruisers. Yes I know we lean our cruisers, but its nothing like the sporties.

I think I've scraped boards on the Nad twice since I've had it. Both times were due to a backa&&ards lean to the roadway in a curve, IOW -I just don't lean the Nad much at all. And the tire wear shows this. One glance at my little Ninja's rear tire shows the difference in how its ridden, more wear on the sides and much higher up as well.

Frankly, I probably would not consider a CT if I could expect 20k from a mc tire. I even had high hopes of my current E3 going that far. It seem to barely wear at all in the first 5k, but I'm now just over 10k and it seems to be going down much faster now. Probably want to change it between 13k-14k, which is much better than the stock rear tire (toast at 6k) for sure -but still a bit diassappointing. I do ride on some brutal rock roads here in E.TX. For comparison, these same roads have worn the little Ninja's rear tire to bald in under 4k

The suggestion was made that a CT is just being cheap, and I had to chuckle there. I suppose when I walked out of the Harley dealership and went and bought a Kawasaki -I was being cheap. Heck when I sold off all my customized 1911's and went Glock -I was probably being cheap But if you can find a better value at a better cost why not be cheap ? It can help ya pay the light bill, keep the water running, and pay for the soon to be $10/gallon gas

[RichLockyer]

+1

Over 14k on this tire. The chicken strips just don't get any smaller than that on the 1600 (ignore the hole, the photo was taken for another thread):
There has been a lot of HARD mountain riding on this tire... yet the factory nipples are still there 3/4" away from the edge of the tread.

[HIGHWAY]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hey beag.. does your car tire appear to run quieter? i noticed with mine i dont hear as much noice coming from the bottom of the bike, just curious.

[BikerBeagle]

Originally Posted by Plato

But seriously, have you noticed any differences in braking and slow speed parking lot moves. Sometimes the Nad can be a bit shakey in the parking lot stuff, and I've often wondered how the CT would effect this ?

I know Rich said he'd heard of someone taking a CT off due to some issue with emergency braking, so I've been meaning to find an empty lot to see what the hub-bub was about ...just haven't done it yet. Normal braking, though, seems -to me- to be significantly more stable and responsive, probably due to the massive amount of rubber on the road. I know I've been relying more on my rear brake than I used to and haven't seen any problems so far.

With the correct pressure and on level ground, I've found the CT to be better than a MT in slow speed / parking lot manuevers. It does require a different approach (more countersteering and less of any amount of leaning). You really need to get a CT more over on it's side before it makes much of a difference in turn ratio (read Bross's post concerning wide tires in Ryguy's darkside thread to know why) and you simply don't have that kind of room in tight, low speed manuevers for a CT. On the other hand, the wider tire - and flatter tread - offers considerably more stability. It's a wash for me. I do find myself 'walking' my bike a little more in parking lots, but admit that I haven't really practiced and retrained for slow manuevers on the CT much yet.

[BikerBeagle]

Originally Posted by HIGHWAY

Hey beag.. does your car tire appear to run quieter? i noticed with mine i dont hear as much noice coming from the bottom of the bike, just curious.

I haven't noticed an improvement -or worsening- of road noise at all.

[BikerBeagle]

Promised an update.

Took a nice leisurely ride this Memorial weekend ...from Kansas down through Oklahoma (http://www.byways.org/explore/byways/2485/), staying in Mena, AR on Saturday ...up through Arkansas (Pig Trail Scenic Byway) to Eureka Springs, AR on Sunday, and back to Kansas on Monday. Approximately 600 miles traveled on what many believe to be the best of the best riding this side of the Mississippi.

I was a little wary about the new car tire for this ride. If you've ever ridden this route, you know why ...13% grades on the "Winding Stair" ...lots of 30mph switchbacks and 10mph, steep and graded, U-turns on the Pig Trail. This route is no "dragon", but provides plenty of extreme conditons to really test out the capabilities of a tire. I'll also mention here that I was riding 2-up with my teenage daughter AND pulling a well-loaded trailer. Best guess on carry weight (counting myself, passenger, trailer tongue weight) would've been close to the 450lb mark, possibly even exceeding that by a little. Total pulled weight was - guesstimating - approx 650lbs (myself, passenger, trailer incl. cooler, gear).

My primary issue over the weekend was with tire pressures, specifically 'hot' vs. 'cold'. After a lot of trial and error, I've finally managed to conclude that I have to stay above 31lbs 'cold' and below 37lbs 'hot' for optimal ride. If I go below ~30lbs, it starts acting like a flat/underinflated tire ...very 'squishy' in the rear end ...but if I go above ~38lbs, it becomes - and I hesitate to say this - 'too responsive', like an overinflated tire, if that makes any sense. It's easy enough to say I'll keep it at 31lbs cold, but my concern right now is if the summer temps will cause the tire to exceed the 6lbs margin when it gets hot.

Once I had the correct pressure, I will testify that I had absolutely no major issues with the tire. It zigged when I said, "zig", and zagged when I said "zag" ...I thought it did extremely well on the Pig Trail and throughout the rest of the trip. Very confidence inspiring. I was especially impressed with the amount of traction I had through not 1, but 5 rain storms we found ourselves either caught in or riding soon afterwards on wet road conditions. We avoided being caught in ES, then again on the way back home, rode through the tail-end of another, the peripheral edge of another, and the full brunt of the last one just 30 miles from home. Lots of wet riding and the CT never once gave any indication it was losing traction or hydroplaning. In fact, we hit a full on flood across the road, probably 4 or 5 inches deep, 10 or 15ft long, doing about 45mph (didn't see it until I was right up on it) and sailed right through it ..and by 'sailed' I mean 'crapped my pants and screamed like a little girl', but did it upright with 0 loss of control.

So, I suppose my experience with a CT has been pretty positive so far. I'm still not saying I'll keep it on forever, we'll have to wait and see how the summer weather affects the tire pressure. If there's a real, experience-proven 'safety' issue, I'm not seeing it at all. It handles differently, but not overly so once you get used to it. I'm particularly enjoying the MUCH IMPROVED SMOOTHER RIDE and TRACTION.

[jeebee]

I changed both front and rear tires on my 2006 Nomad at 30,400 miles. ME880 on the front, and 205 CT on the rear. I now have 4000 miles on them after this weekends 700 mile ride (200 in the rain). Riding 2 up, with about 50lbs. of luggage on the rack. I've got to say, I have never felt so confident on wet