To Engine Brake Or Not To Engine Brake, That Is The Question...

TMac · 04-16-2005

My Meanie is broken in, and during the break-in period I was very careful not to use downshifting / engine brake to slow road speed.

I guess my question is two-fold:

1) From an engine longevity perspective, what are your thoughts on the impact of engine braking?
2) From a riding safety perspective, what are your thoughts on pros / cons?

Thx!
TMac

800AJAY · 04-16-2005

No expert opinion here, but I remember others say that it's not good to engine brake by downshifting. I remember the message being "use the brake, that's what it's there for" or something like that. I think it was a Bikeaholic comment.

**2WheelFun** · 04-16-2005

Hmmm...I may be off base here but I have always used down shifting on all of my bikes and as far as I can tell there have been no adverse results of that. Of course if your down shifting at high RPM'S then that may cause some pressure issues and eventual oil leakage and burning. I'm sure an expert can give us all of the details about this?

T-man · 04-16-2005

To quote myself as I say it often, YA GOTTA BE S***TING ME! Engine braking is definitely the way to go and it does not harm the engine, IF you use it within reason. "Within reason" is not overrevving the motor and driveline. I got 26K miles and have engine braked from day one on my 2001 1500 Classic FI and my previous 3 bikes. I also have lots of brake pad left. You have to do it right: which means blip the throttle to match engine rpm with clutch rpm at the selected downshift point. That way you don't wear out the clutch. All you are doing is using the engine as an air pump to slow the bike. The few extra revs won't hurt and the engine will actually be cooled somewhat more uniformly by the extra pumping of oil and water compared to idling with a pulled in clutch. Eventually, Kaw engineers will catch up with automotive engineers and limit fuel input even further than they do now in periods of high manifold vacuum, but still it is inconsequential in these small motors.

Lee_2061 · 04-16-2005

Yes, it's always good advice to not do anything to over-rev your bike when breaking in.
Yes if you're Michael Schumacher and you're already redlining your engine 99% of the time, using engine braking probably isn't such a good idea.
I've engine braked on all bikes AND in my TT Quattro. Haven't had any hassles yet. Who are these scaremongers? Must be those who've only ever driven automatic transmission cars and have no idea what engine braking is. Come to think of it, I occassionally use engine braking on my automatic stationwagon as well. Haven't killed it yet. But I'm trying. LOL
There is a practical safety side to it. Decelerating with a louder engine dragging rumble helps let cagedrivers know you're coming and not to make sudden lane changes.
Hmm.... Wonder if i should take the Power Commander off and restore the popping.

*ispeed77* · 04-19-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by T-man

To quote myself as I say it often, YA GOTTA BE S***TING ME! Engine braking is definitely the way to go and it does not harm the engine, IF you use it within reason. "Within reason" is not overrevving the motor and driveline. I got 26K miles and have engine braked from day one on my 2001 1500 Classic FI and my previous 3 bikes. I also have lots of brake pad left. You have to do it right: which means blip the throttle to match engine rpm with clutch rpm at the selected downshift point. That way you don't wear out the clutch. All you are doing is using the engine as an air pump to slow the bike. The few extra revs won't hurt and the engine will actually be cooled somewhat more uniformly by the extra pumping of oil and water compared to idling with a pulled in clutch. Eventually, Kaw engineers will catch up with automotive engineers and limit fuel input even further than they do now in periods of high manifold vacuum, but still it is inconsequential in these small motors.

thanks for the info T, i was worried there for a minute that i had been doing the wrong thing all this time !

**Spok** · 04-19-2005

I downshifted from day 1 as well, never thought twice about it.

Chromequeen · 04-19-2005

Me too, but I guess it comes from driving semi too. Cagers would be in a world of trouble if the semi's only used their braking system instead of downshifting.

*ispeed77* · 04-20-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chromequeen

Me too, but I guess it comes from driving semi too. Cagers would be in a world of trouble if the semi's only used their braking system instead of downshifting.

good point, that's a scary mental picture

i wonder if i can get a jake brake on the Nomad......

nvr1 · 03-20-2009

No problem with engine braking, just dont do it while entering a sharp turn or the backwheel will slide out from underneath you!! For the same reason you also dont use back brake only while entering a turn.

clk328 · 03-20-2009

I have yet to use my brakes!

insolentminx · 03-20-2009

i downshift to brake sometimes, but generally:

"brakes are for braking, gears are for going"

plus brakepads are cheaper to replace than clutches

mcwrath · 03-20-2009

I drag my feet!

(I can't claim that one...a similar thread popped up once before, and that was one of the funnier responses I remember!)

insolentminx · 03-20-2009

FL Vulcan Rider · 03-20-2009

If I'm going 60 MPH, I'll engine brake in 5th down to 40 MPH and then use my brakes the rest of the way. There's no reason to use ur brakes in 5th gear above 40... you aren't at high rpms at all.

peregrine · 03-20-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by nvr1

No problem with engine braking, just dont do it while entering a sharp turn or the backwheel will slide out from underneath you!! For the same reason you also dont use back brake only while entering a turn.

??? I use my engine braking on slow turns (20 mph or less) without any problems. (AND I like the sound of the engine as I go under the bridge turn-around.) (I used to use the same method on enduros to through off speed, and have never had to replace a clutch. But then again, I don't ride it.)

FL Vulcan Rider · 03-20-2009

I engine brake in 2nd gear while going 70 MPH, just so that I can save my brakes... afterall... the rev limiter for 2nd gear is like 80 MPH, right?

therogue · 03-20-2009

engine brake all the time all my standard vehicles

fclark78 · 03-20-2009

I try to engine brake as much as possible. When I'm on a track I engine brake even more. My bike has a slipper clutch so I don't have to worry about the bike locking up or anything. Don't know if its bad for the engine or not but its made for engine braking so thats what i do.

flrbrddrggr · 03-20-2009

I see this issue having a similar component to the other thread running right now "1 Foot vs 2 Feet. Neutral or 1st?" http://www.kawasakimotorcycle.org/fo...etral-1st.html

If when you are stopping you don't use engine braking, what do you do if you need to take evasive action requiring an application of power? If you are simply clicking down through the gears, how are you sure that you are in the right gear for power when you need it?

I have been told that our "wet clutches" greatly minimize wear but that routine engine braking should not be done with dry clutches as it is much cheaper to replace brake pads than clutches.

And my last comment, I think engine braking sounds really cool on a V-twin. How's that for scientific?

-Dwain

04-16-2005	#1 (permalink)
TMac Guinness Imbiber BTK Intermediate Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota Posts: 132	To Engine Brake Or Not To Engine Brake, That Is The Question... My Meanie is broken in, and during the break-in period I was very careful not to use downshifting / engine brake to slow road speed. I guess my question is two-fold: 1) From an engine longevity perspective, what are your thoughts on the impact of engine braking? 2) From a riding safety perspective, what are your thoughts on pros / cons? Thx! TMac __________________ TMac

04-16-2005	#3 (permalink)
2WheelFun the "fun" guy Extreme Forum Supporter Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Albion, Washington "Pacific Northwest" Posts: 32,674	Hmmm...I may be off base here but I have always used down shifting on all of my bikes and as far as I can tell there have been no adverse results of that. Of course if your down shifting at high RPM'S then that may cause some pressure issues and eventual oil leakage and burning. I'm sure an expert can give us all of the details about this? __________________ *KING KAHUNA* *2007 V2K LT* ****PICS** 2007 Brute Force 650i **PICS** I love the smell of SeaFoam in the morning**

04-16-2005	#4 (permalink)
T-man Deerslayer & BTK Expert Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Maryville, TN Posts: 1,266	To quote myself as I say it often, YA GOTTA BE S*TING ME! Engine braking is definitely the way to go and it does not harm the engine, IF you use it within reason. "Within reason" is not overrevving the motor and driveline. I got 26K miles and have engine braked from day one on my 2001 1500 Classic FI and my previous 3 bikes. I also have lots of brake pad left. You have to do it right: which means blip the throttle to match engine rpm with clutch rpm at the selected downshift point. That way you don't wear out the clutch. All you are doing is using the engine as an air pump to slow the bike. The few extra revs won't hurt and the engine will actually be cooled somewhat more uniformly by the extra pumping of oil and water compared to idling with a pulled in clutch. Eventually, Kaw engineers will catch up with automotive engineers and limit fuel input even further than they do now in periods of high manifold vacuum, but still it is inconsequential in these small motors. __________________ T-man VROC #12333** 2005 V2K Ltd 2001 1500 Classic FI http://www.geocities.com/tensman_99/mcpics.html

04-16-2005	#5 (permalink)
Lee_2061 V2K Blingaphile BTK Expert Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Western Australia Posts: 1,791	Yes, it's always good advice to not do anything to over-rev your bike when breaking in. Yes if you're Michael Schumacher and you're already redlining your engine 99% of the time, using engine braking probably isn't such a good idea. I've engine braked on all bikes AND in my TT Quattro. Haven't had any hassles yet. Who are these scaremongers? Must be those who've only ever driven automatic transmission cars and have no idea what engine braking is. Come to think of it, I occassionally use engine braking on my automatic stationwagon as well. Haven't killed it yet. But I'm trying. LOL There is a practical safety side to it. Decelerating with a louder engine dragging rumble helps let cagedrivers know you're coming and not to make sudden lane changes. Hmm.... Wonder if i should take the Power Commander off and restore the popping. __________________ VROC17211 ROG189 UMC38326 V2KBUM#3 www.cruisercustomizing.com/lee_2061 www.flipdrive.com/silkfire

04-19-2005	#7 (permalink)
Spok RIP Deron - 1400Pilot Extreme Forum Supporter Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Mount Vernon, Washington Posts: 36,699	I downshifted from day 1 as well, never thought twice about it. __________________ AUGUST 2006 MOM In Memory of Deron Harden - 1400 Pilot. You are missed. Official Cup Holder Inspection Officer

04-16-2005	#2 (permalink)
800AJAY Cruising In Fourth Gear BTK Intermediate Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Toledo, Ohio Posts: 240	No expert opinion here, but I remember others say that it's not good to engine brake by downshifting. I remember the message being "use the brake, that's what it's there for" or something like that. I think it was a Bikeaholic comment.

04-19-2005	#8 (permalink)
Chromequeen Banned BTK Expert Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Panhandle, FL Posts: 3,209	Me too, but I guess it comes from driving semi too. Cagers would be in a world of trouble if the semi's only used their braking system instead of downshifting.

03-20-2009	#10 (permalink)
nvr1 Newbie Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 2	No problem with engine braking, just dont do it while entering a sharp turn or the backwheel will slide out from underneath you!! For the same reason you also dont use back brake only while entering a turn.

03-20-2009	#11 (permalink)
clk328 Cruising In Fourth Gear BTK Intermediate Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 217	I have yet to use my brakes! __________________ It's stressfull being an Other, Jack!

03-20-2009	#12 (permalink)
insolentminx a blur of chrome... BTK Expert Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: London, England. Posts: 12,249	i downshift to brake sometimes, but generally: "brakes are for braking, gears are for going" plus brakepads are cheaper to replace than clutches __________________ Steve Poser Proud® 900 Custom CBR 600RR IBA: #40198 Pics

03-20-2009	#13 (permalink)
mcwrath I was at D.O.D #1! BTK Expert Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Peoria, IL Posts: 701	I drag my feet! (I can't claim that one...a similar thread popped up once before, and that was one of the funnier responses I remember!) __________________ 1998 Vulcan 800 classic "Grit, spit, and a whole lot of duct tape!" My motorcycle pics!

03-20-2009	#14 (permalink)
insolentminx a blur of chrome... BTK Expert Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: London, England. Posts: 12,249	__________________ Steve Poser Proud® 900 Custom CBR 600RR IBA: #40198 Pics

03-20-2009	#15 (permalink)
FL Vulcan Rider Forum Supporter Forum Supporter Join Date: May 2008 Location: Fort Myers, FL Posts: 4,710	If I'm going 60 MPH, I'll engine brake in 5th down to 40 MPH and then use my brakes the rest of the way. There's no reason to use ur brakes in 5th gear above 40... you aren't at high rpms at all. __________________ J.C. Home Page 2008 Vulcan 900 Custom 1997 Vulcan 1500 Classic

03-20-2009	#17 (permalink)
FL Vulcan Rider Forum Supporter Forum Supporter Join Date: May 2008 Location: Fort Myers, FL Posts: 4,710	I engine brake in 2nd gear while going 70 MPH, just so that I can save my brakes... afterall... the rev limiter for 2nd gear is like 80 MPH, right? __________________ J.C. Home Page 2008 Vulcan 900 Custom 1997 Vulcan 1500 Classic

03-20-2009	#18 (permalink)
therogue Forgot to grow up BTK Expert Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: St. Andrews, Manitoba, eh Posts: 679	engine brake all the time all my standard vehicles __________________ 07/V2K

03-20-2009	#19 (permalink)
fclark78 Turtle Wax Taster BTK Intermediate Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 189	I try to engine brake as much as possible. When I'm on a track I engine brake even more. My bike has a slipper clutch so I don't have to worry about the bike locking up or anything. Don't know if its bad for the engine or not but its made for engine braking so thats what i do.

03-20-2009	#20 (permalink)
flrbrddrggr Forum Supporter Forum Supporter Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: NE Tennessee in the twisties Posts: 737	I see this issue having a similar component to the other thread running right now "1 Foot vs 2 Feet. Neutral or 1st?" http://www.kawasakimotorcycle.org/fo...etral-1st.html If when you are stopping you don't use engine braking, what do you do if you need to take evasive action requiring an application of power? If you are simply clicking down through the gears, how are you sure that you are in the right gear for power when you need it? I have been told that our "wet clutches" greatly minimize wear but that routine engine braking should not be done with dry clutches as it is much cheaper to replace brake pads than clutches. And my last comment, I think engine braking sounds really cool on a V-twin. How's that for scientific? -Dwain

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