MSF course tomorrow - Page 2

Upi · 06-07-2006

I just took it again this last weekend. It's changed allot since 96.

Scooring for the test was as follows, althought I don't remember all of the details. Points are bad:

21 points and you fail. Dropping a bike during the test = 21 points.

4 excercises:

1) Figure 8
2) Emergency swerve
3) 135* curve
4) Emergency stop

The figure 8 is more of a convenience excercise, but the other 3 are life saving.

1) Figure 8

3 points for putting a foot down
5 points for putting a foot down a second time
3 points for going outside the box
5 points for going outside the box a second time

8 points max allowable.

2/3) Emergency Swerve/135* curve

I don't remember the details but max points you can get for each section is 15. The obvious stuff like driving outside of the lines, going too fast (which will cause you to go outside of the lines), going too slow, clipping the imaginary car will get you points in smaller increments, but 15 is the max.

4) Emergency Stop

You must maintain a speed betwene 12-18 mph, and begin braking at a specified point, as quickly as you can. The instructor will time you to determine your speed, and you will get 1 point for each foot past the maximum stopping distance allowed for your speed. You can also loose a few points for not shifting into 1st gear, not using both brakes, putting your right foot down first, beginning braking too soon (a.k.a. anticipating the stop). 15 points maximum.

As you can see, you can totally blow any one of the sections, and still pass. What they really want you to leave the course with is the life saving stuff, which is why those sections are worth so many points.

As far as the figure 8 goes, I found that putting my shoulders outside of the bike during my counterweight (like, REALLY counterweighing) really helped, along with the usual look as far behind you as you can etc. etc. suggestions you will get. I started off way outside of the big box and at the end was doing the small box with 2-3 feet to spare in the small box. But again, don't freak out about the figure 8 as it's not worth too many points, just dont drop the bike (a.k.a put a foot down if you need to).

Also, the instructor may ask/let you do an excercise again if something goofy happens. for example, he let me do the emergency braking again because I was going too fast for him to calculate my speed. But I still stopped within the max allowed distance.

That is all I remember. Oh, bring lots of water, it was 102 out when I took mine and 102 gets hot when you're not moving too quick.

tux259 · 06-07-2006

I passed! I actually didn't miss any points during the riding skills evaluation, and like I said in my other post, the written test was REALLY easy so I didn't miss any there either.

The figure 8 was the only one that had me nervous going into it. I went first, like usual, and to be honest, I didn't think I could do it. When we were practicing before, I was having to drop my foot on the second u turn most of the time, and when I didn't I went out of the line.

However, when the time came, I just didn't think about anything, and I did it perfectly! The instructor had a good laugh at that one.

Emergency stopping was easy for me. These bikes have so much power in the brakes...

Swerving wasn't hard either. Nor was the 135 degree turn.

What a great experience! I am so glad I took the class. Now I just need to do that final convincing of the parents..

Funny sign that I am meant to ride a motorcycle, not drive a car: Upon passing the MSF course, my car proceeds to overheat and spill engine coolant and leak tons of oil everywhere. It has done this before and was getting way too costly anyway, so it looks like this is where it may lay to rest.

Thanks for all of the tips! I hope to see you all on the rode.

RichLockyer · 06-07-2006

That is interesting. My class was with Ride-Rite, and they follow the MSF guidelines and curriculum and are under authority of the CA-MSF program, but scoring on mine was vastly different.

As I mentioned above, on the figure 8, there was a max loss of 6 points on the maneuver... 3 for going outside of the box (at either end) or 3 for putting a foot down, but no more than 6 could be lost, so going outside and dropping a foot on the first half meant that the whole maneuver was blown (but not a failure).
Literally, if you decided that you just could not do the figure 8 and decided to drive straight through it from the start cones directly to the emergency swerve cones you'd only miss 6 points.

Allowing 21, but with a max on each section of 15 is more forgiving than ours, which was 8, with 6 or more possible on each section.

RichLockyer · 06-07-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by tux259

I passed! I actually didn't miss any points during the riding skills evaluation, and like I said in my other post, the written test was REALLY easy so I didn't miss any there either.

Congrats!

IMHO, scoring a 0 on the riding test is VERY good. No, it's not a hard test, but it's also easy to drop points here and there.
I would not hesitate to ride with anyone who scored better than -3 (on the Ride-Rite 8-max test).

*jukief* · 06-07-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichLockyer

Congrats!

IMHO, scoring a 0 on the riding test is VERY good. No, it's not a hard test, but it's also easy to drop points here and there.
I would not hesitate to ride with anyone who scored better than -3 (on the Ride-Rite 8-max test).

Hey, I scored -3! I had the third best score in our class (two guys got perfect scores). I beat Alan.

My sin was touching the line in the figure 8. That's where I lost all of my points. It's so funny because I can do it perfectly now on my 1500.

luvda6R · 06-07-2006

Congrats!

RichLockyer · 06-07-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by jukief

Hey, I scored -3! I had the third best score in our class (two guys got perfect scores). I beat Alan.

My sin was touching the line in the figure 8. That's where I lost all of my points. It's so funny because I can do it perfectly now on my 1500.

Of course, I would make exceptions.
You're cute enough... I'd ride with you even if you scored -8

longbeachgary · 06-07-2006

[quote=tux259]Now I just need to do that final convincing of the parents...[/QUOTE]

Speaking as a parent, you could let them know that you plan on being a responsible rider by wearing all of your gear EVERYTIME you go out: Let them know that you are planning on taking the experience rider class after a few months of riding: let them know you are going to get a reasonable bike - not a rocket.

*jukief* · 06-07-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichLockyer

Of course, I would make exceptions.
You're cute enough... I'd ride with you even if you scored -8

Why, thank you!

RichLockyer · 06-07-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by longbeachgary

Let them know that you are planning on taking the experience rider class after a few months of riding

I was curious about that. What is the recommended time frame to begin considering the ERC? Not "time" actually... but miles?

Quote:

let them know you are going to get a reasonable bike - not a rocket.

Ya... my wife calmed down slightly when she saw the "La-Z-Boy on Wheels"
She knew I didn't want a sportbike... but she didn't realize just how BIG (and slow looking) a large cruiser actually is.

*likearock4x4* · 06-07-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichLockyer

I was curious about that. What is the recommended time frame to begin considering the ERC? Not "time" actually... but miles?

Ya... my wife calmed down slightly when she saw the "La-Z-Boy on Wheels"
She knew I didn't want a sportbike... but she didn't realize just how BIG (and slow looking) a large cruiser actually is.

That's funny.

I'm curious about the ERC too.

Upi · 06-08-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichLockyer

That is interesting. My class was with Ride-Rite, and they follow the MSF guidelines and curriculum and are under authority of the CA-MSF program, but scoring on mine was vastly different.

As I mentioned above, on the figure 8, there was a max loss of 6 points on the maneuver... 3 for going outside of the box (at either end) or 3 for putting a foot down, but no more than 6 could be lost, so going outside and dropping a foot on the first half meant that the whole maneuver was blown (but not a failure).
Literally, if you decided that you just could not do the figure 8 and decided to drive straight through it from the start cones directly to the emergency swerve cones you'd only miss 6 points.

Allowing 21, but with a max on each section of 15 is more forgiving than ours, which was 8, with 6 or more possible on each section.

Took mine with U-Ride. Sounds as if the curriculum is the same but the test scooring is handled differently. We had 1 person not make it, which totally sucks cause he was doing really well, but seemed to totally choke on the exam. But hey, IRL you don't get second chances so....

Upi · 06-08-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by likearock4x4

That's funny.

I'm curious about the ERC too.

I asked my instructor, he said they prefer at least 2000 miles on your current bike, so that you are familiar enough with how it handles. But I think the only requirement is M1 endorsement.

RichLockyer · 06-08-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Upi

But hey, IRL you don't get second chances so....

Ride-Rite is pretty good about rescheduling. In many cases they will wave the $50 fee. They boast a 93% pass rate, but are clear that not everyone passes the first time.

Upi · 06-09-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichLockyer

Ride-Rite is pretty good about rescheduling. In many cases they will wave the $50 fee. They boast a 93% pass rate, but are clear that not everyone passes the first time.

Yeah U-Ride said they would let you retake a day of riding (as standby of course) and retake the riding skills evaluation if you failed.

dmahon · 06-09-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichLockyer

But remember.... IF YOU LOCK THE REAR BRAKE, KEEP IT LOCKED!!!
1) They don't like to see any high-sides in class
2) It shows that you listened and know how to react if you DO lock it up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichLockyer

Scoring on the driving test.... You are allowed -8 to pass.
If you forget to downshift out of 2nd on the panic stop, it's -5. Just remember... brake, brake, shift (front brake, rear brake, downshift)... you'll be coming to a stop just as you finish pressing into 1st.

Funny how tests differ. In the UK, if you downshift on the emergency stop (30mph in 3rd gear with the examiner stepping out into the road in front of you) or lock up your back wheel for more than a couple of feet (ie. if you lock it, you better let it off damn quick) you FAIL the test completely and have to sit it all over again.

RichLockyer · 06-09-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmahon

or lock up your back wheel for more than a couple of feet (ie. if you lock it, you better let it off damn quick) you FAIL the test completely and have to sit it all over again.

That is very dangerous to teach.
If the bike is not absolutely straight when you let go of the brake you can easily be killed by what follows.

Tweek · 06-10-2006

I'm a little confused by this: do they do the Motorcycle license testing at the end of the MSF or do you have to visit the state's testing center? Getting your license at the end of the class would rock.

tux259 · 06-10-2006

They give you a little card with a signature and some verifcation numbers that acts like a waiver. I took it down to the DMV and they took my picture, did the eye thing, then gave me a temporary paper license until my new one arrives(within a week).

All in all, it took about 10 minutes. Thank god I know the secret DMV location where no one else goes. I tried to go to the one closest to me and the wait was 4 hours! There were at least 50 people in line and I saw 1 lady working. 1 person.

*hates the DMV*

Tweek · 06-10-2006

Governments and monopolies are never a good thing. Too bad the DMV doesn't have to compete for your business

06-07-2006	#21 (permalink)
Upi RUN AWAY! BTK Expert Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Lake Forest, CA Posts: 942	I just took it again this last weekend. It's changed allot since 96. Scooring for the test was as follows, althought I don't remember all of the details. Points are bad: 21 points and you fail. Dropping a bike during the test = 21 points. 4 excercises: 1) Figure 8 2) Emergency swerve 3) 135* curve 4) Emergency stop The figure 8 is more of a convenience excercise, but the other 3 are life saving. 1) Figure 8 3 points for putting a foot down 5 points for putting a foot down a second time 3 points for going outside the box 5 points for going outside the box a second time 8 points max allowable. 2/3) Emergency Swerve/135* curve I don't remember the details but max points you can get for each section is 15. The obvious stuff like driving outside of the lines, going too fast (which will cause you to go outside of the lines), going too slow, clipping the imaginary car will get you points in smaller increments, but 15 is the max. 4) Emergency Stop You must maintain a speed betwene 12-18 mph, and begin braking at a specified point, as quickly as you can. The instructor will time you to determine your speed, and you will get 1 point for each foot past the maximum stopping distance allowed for your speed. You can also loose a few points for not shifting into 1st gear, not using both brakes, putting your right foot down first, beginning braking too soon (a.k.a. anticipating the stop). 15 points maximum. As you can see, you can totally blow any one of the sections, and still pass. What they really want you to leave the course with is the life saving stuff, which is why those sections are worth so many points. As far as the figure 8 goes, I found that putting my shoulders outside of the bike during my counterweight (like, REALLY counterweighing) really helped, along with the usual look as far behind you as you can etc. etc. suggestions you will get. I started off way outside of the big box and at the end was doing the small box with 2-3 feet to spare in the small box. But again, don't freak out about the figure 8 as it's not worth too many points, just dont drop the bike (a.k.a put a foot down if you need to). Also, the instructor may ask/let you do an excercise again if something goofy happens. for example, he let me do the emergency braking again because I was going too fast for him to calculate my speed. But I still stopped within the max allowed distance. That is all I remember. Oh, bring lots of water, it was 102 out when I took mine and 102 gets hot when you're not moving too quick. __________________ "The superior rider uses their superior judgment to avoid needing their superior skills" -myself

06-07-2006	#23 (permalink)
RichLockyer Patriot Guardian Extreme Forum Supporter Join Date: May 2006 Location: Chino, CA Posts: 20,063	That is interesting. My class was with Ride-Rite, and they follow the MSF guidelines and curriculum and are under authority of the CA-MSF program, but scoring on mine was vastly different. As I mentioned above, on the figure 8, there was a max loss of 6 points on the maneuver... 3 for going outside of the box (at either end) or 3 for putting a foot down, but no more than 6 could be lost, so going outside and dropping a foot on the first half meant that the whole maneuver was blown (but not a failure). Literally, if you decided that you just could not do the figure 8 and decided to drive straight through it from the start cones directly to the emergency swerve cones you'd only miss 6 points. Allowing 21, but with a max on each section of 15 is more forgiving than ours, which was 8, with 6 or more possible on each section. __________________ - Rich 2006 1600 Classic Member CORVA, BRC Patriot Guard Rider

06-07-2006	#26 (permalink)
luvda6R Refrigerator Magnet Test Engineer BTK Expert Join Date: May 2005 Location: North Lake Tahoe, CA Posts: 494	Congrats! __________________ '05 ZX-6R Two Bros CF V.A.L.E. Zero Gravity Double Bubble

06-07-2006	#22 (permalink)
tux259 Foil Inspector BTK Beginner Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 109	I passed! I actually didn't miss any points during the riding skills evaluation, and like I said in my other post, the written test was REALLY easy so I didn't miss any there either. The figure 8 was the only one that had me nervous going into it. I went first, like usual, and to be honest, I didn't think I could do it. When we were practicing before, I was having to drop my foot on the second u turn most of the time, and when I didn't I went out of the line. However, when the time came, I just didn't think about anything, and I did it perfectly! The instructor had a good laugh at that one. Emergency stopping was easy for me. These bikes have so much power in the brakes... Swerving wasn't hard either. Nor was the 135 degree turn. What a great experience! I am so glad I took the class. Now I just need to do that final convincing of the parents.. Funny sign that I am meant to ride a motorcycle, not drive a car: Upon passing the MSF course, my car proceeds to overheat and spill engine coolant and leak tons of oil everywhere. It has done this before and was getting way too costly anyway, so it looks like this is where it may lay to rest. Thanks for all of the tips! I hope to see you all on the rode.

06-07-2006	#28 (permalink)
longbeachgary Banned BTK Expert Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Long Beach, CA Posts: 841	[quote=tux259]Now I just need to do that final convincing of the parents...[/QUOTE] Speaking as a parent, you could let them know that you plan on being a responsible rider by wearing all of your gear EVERYTIME you go out: Let them know that you are planning on taking the experience rider class after a few months of riding: let them know you are going to get a reasonable bike - not a rocket.

06-10-2006	#38 (permalink)
Tweek Propensity for velocity Forum Supporter Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Flower Mound, TX Posts: 1,950	I'm a little confused by this: do they do the Motorcycle license testing at the end of the MSF or do you have to visit the state's testing center? Getting your license at the end of the class would rock.

06-10-2006	#39 (permalink)
tux259 Foil Inspector BTK Beginner Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 109	They give you a little card with a signature and some verifcation numbers that acts like a waiver. I took it down to the DMV and they took my picture, did the eye thing, then gave me a temporary paper license until my new one arrives(within a week). All in all, it took about 10 minutes. Thank god I know the secret DMV location where no one else goes. I tried to go to the one closest to me and the wait was 4 hours! There were at least 50 people in line and I saw 1 lady working. 1 person. hates the DMV

06-10-2006	#40 (permalink)
Tweek Propensity for velocity Forum Supporter Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Flower Mound, TX Posts: 1,950	Governments and monopolies are never a good thing. Too bad the DMV doesn't have to compete for your business