MSF course tomorrow

[tux259]

Yay.

I am kind of nervous, though. I have studied this stuff for years(finally got parents permission), so I know everything in the book, but I am scared that I will do poorly when I am actually put on a bike.

So I just need to highlight the workbook answers to the Study Questions, right?

Any tips on gloves? I have fleece gloves and work gloves, so I am thinking work gloves may be better(work gloves like gardening ones).

[ZX-5R ninja]

the most important thing is to get used to the clutch and my parents barely let me get my bike so i know how you feel, and when doing the exercises relax

[soundbrewer]

If you have already read the book you will be bored out of your skull in the classroom. When I went to the class they just went through question by question telling you where to highlight. My teacher didn't add anything. Hopefully your teacher will add more to the text.

The riding pace is really slow, almost too slow. You shouldn't have any problems. In my class everyone passed the riding portion. Wear the gloves that give you the better 'feel'. Don't wear a pair of work gloves if they are too big or loose.

[RichLockyer]

Hint... some of the questions in the workbook are in bold.
There is a very good reason they are in bold.
All of the non-bold questions are very good to know... but you NEED to know the ones that are in bold (hint)
There are 50 questions in bold (hint)
There are 50 questions on the written test (hint)


As stated above, riding is painfully slow. I was lucky, as there were only two of us my first day, and starting at noon, we were actually done by 2:30, so we chatted with the instructor and worked on smoothing out our ride until 5... HOWEVER... both of us had extensive offroad experience and the other guy had already put 800 miles on his Sporty 1200... so we knew how to keep it on 2 wheels, were totally familiar with the controls, and were familiar with operating the clutch.

I went back a week later to visit my instructor and introduce her to my wife and watched a 12-person (2 coach) class.... Start time was again noon, and I think it was 12:45 before they actually started the engines.

First maneuver where you are actually moving is rocking the bike back and forth on your heels while slipping the clutch, just to get the feel for the friction zone... and EVERY bike is different, including the one you own and the one your buddy owns... ALWAYS do this routine before riding an unfamiliar bike, or after doing any work on the clutch.

Second is a "power walk"... you literally walk the bike under power across the range and back. After doing this a few times, you then move to the same thing, but holding your feet steady, but still (sliding) on the ground.
Finally, you will cross the range and come back with your feet on the pegs.

The class is designed for someone who has never SEEN a bike before, and has a 93% pass rate.
I put about 20 miles on the bike total between both days. Only got into 3rd gear on one maneuver the first day where we drive a large oval and shift into 3rd in the middle of the turns and back down to 2nd in the middle of the straights (to slow for the upcoming turn).


Scoring on the driving test.... You are allowed -8 to pass.
If you forget to downshift out of 2nd on the panic stop, it's -5. Just remember... brake, brake, shift (front brake, rear brake, downshift)... you'll be coming to a stop just as you finish pressing into 1st.
Always put your left foot down FIRST, but the MSF wants to see BOTH feet down after coming to a stop. They want to see the left foot down first because that "proves" that you have used both brakes.

Personally, I ONLY put my left foot down unless I start to drop to the right. That lets me relax my throttle hand while still displaying a brake light to the rear. Also, when starting on a hill, it's the same as a car. You have to work the brake, throttle, and clutch together. That means that you HAVE to use the rear brake to prevent rollback until you get into the friction zone.

Anyways, back to scoring....

On the figure-8. If you go outside of the box, it's a -3. If you put a foot down, it's -3. Thus... if you go outside the box, do NOT attempt to save the maneuver by putting your foot down... you've already lost 3 points, save the other 3 for later. The MOST you can lose is 6... IE, -6 if you just drive straight through it.
The trick to the box... Concentrate on turning, not staying upright. Put your chin ON your shoulder and look THROUGH the turn. Where you look is where you'll go... and if you look at the pavement next to the front tire, that's where you will go.

On the final maneuver, the 135 degree turn, you are shooting for a time between 2.6 and 3 seconds for a perfect score. I completed it in 3.03 and took a -1.

Automatic failure:
Dropping the bike DURING THE TEST (if you drop the bike during the class, you're cool as long as you are not injured)
Intentional unsafe riding (this can be grounds for expulsion at any time)
No wheelies

Good luck and see you on the road!

[tux259]

Wow, thanks so much for the help/advice! I feel much better now that I know what exactly I will be doing.

I really appreciate the replies!

[likearock4x4]

Originally Posted by RichLockyer

Hint... some of the questions in the workbook are in bold.
There is a very good reason they are in bold.
All of the non-bold questions are very good to know... but you NEED to know the ones that are in bold (hint)
There are 50 questions in bold (hint)
There are 50 questions on the written test (hint)


As stated above, riding is painfully slow. I was lucky, as there were only two of us my first day, and starting at noon, we were actually done by 2:30, so we chatted with the instructor and worked on smoothing out our ride until 5... HOWEVER... both of us had extensive offroad experience and the other guy had already put 800 miles on his Sporty 1200... so we knew how to keep it on 2 wheels, were totally familiar with the controls, and were familiar with operating the clutch.

I went back a week later to visit my instructor and introduce her to my wife and watched a 12-person (2 coach) class.... Start time was again noon, and I think it was 12:45 before they actually started the engines.

First maneuver where you are actually moving is rocking the bike back and forth on your heels while slipping the clutch, just to get the feel for the friction zone... and EVERY bike is different, including the one you own and the one your buddy owns... ALWAYS do this routine before riding an unfamiliar bike, or after doing any work on the clutch.

Second is a "power walk"... you literally walk the bike under power across the range and back. After doing this a few times, you then move to the same thing, but holding your feet steady, but still (sliding) on the ground.
Finally, you will cross the range and come back with your feet on the pegs.

The class is designed for someone who has never SEEN a bike before, and has a 93% pass rate.
I put about 20 miles on the bike total between both days. Only got into 3rd gear on one maneuver the first day where we drive a large oval and shift into 3rd in the middle of the turns and back down to 2nd in the middle of the straights (to slow for the upcoming turn).


Scoring on the driving test.... You are allowed -8 to pass.
If you forget to downshift out of 2nd on the panic stop, it's -5. Just remember... brake, brake, shift (front brake, rear brake, downshift)... you'll be coming to a stop just as you finish pressing into 1st.
Always put your left foot down FIRST, but the MSF wants to see BOTH feet down after coming to a stop. They want to see the left foot down first because that "proves" that you have used both brakes.

Personally, I ONLY put my left foot down unless I start to drop to the right. That lets me relax my throttle hand while still displaying a brake light to the rear. Also, when starting on a hill, it's the same as a car. You have to work the brake, throttle, and clutch together. That means that you HAVE to use the rear brake to prevent rollback until you get into the friction zone.

Anyways, back to scoring....

On the figure-8. If you go outside of the box, it's a -3. If you put a foot down, it's -3. Thus... if you go outside the box, do NOT attempt to save the maneuver by putting your foot down... you've already lost 3 points, save the other 3 for later. The MOST you can lose is 6... IE, -6 if you just drive straight through it.
The trick to the box... Concentrate on turning, not staying upright. Put your chin ON your shoulder and look THROUGH the turn. Where you look is where you'll go... and if you look at the pavement next to the front tire, that's where you will go.

On the final maneuver, the 135 degree turn, you are shooting for a time between 2.6 and 3 seconds for a perfect score. I completed it in 3.03 and took a -1.

Automatic failure:
Dropping the bike DURING THE TEST (if you drop the bike during the class, you're cool as long as you are not injured)
Intentional unsafe riding (this can be grounds for expulsion at any time)
No wheelies

Good luck and see you on the road!

Very good summary. I was into 3rd gear a lot, but we had a big class, and I am a renegade. I think I even made it to 4th a couple of times when playing (going to park the bike and going around the range to get there). I never put anyone in danger, including myself, but had some fun. As you said earlier, it is slow riding. We had a few that needed every minute of it, too.

Don't worry about it tux, you'll do just fine.

[ervins]

If you have the DMV motorcycle handbook you should read it...However, pay attention and read what is in the booklet that is given to you. As far as gloves, we had to wear leather...I had Alps gloves with mesh and teacher said no...So I had to get some leather work gloves from Home Depot to take the driving part. The key is to relax and enjoy the process. Don't drop the bike either during the test...We had 3 failures in my class of 12...I had the second best score.

[likearock4x4]

Originally Posted by ervins

If you have the DMV motorcycle handbook you should read it...However, pay attention and read what is in the booklet that is given to you. As far as gloves, we had to wear leather...I had Alps gloves with mesh and teacher said no...So I had to get some leather work gloves from Home Depot to take the driving part. The key is to relax and enjoy the process. Don't drop the bike either during the test...We had 3 failures in my class of 12...I had the second best score.

You should have time to get the gloves between the first day and the second day.

Here in Illinois, it is a 3 day class. First day (Friday night) is all classroom materials, second and third days are both classroom and range. We had to have the gear for the second day. (I don't know about how it is laid out in your area.)

[soundbrewer]

By the way...if this is your first time on a bike you are going to have a crazy good time, even at the slow speeds of the MSF course.

[RichLockyer]

Our class was 5 hours classroom Thursday night, and 10 hours range, 5 each Saturday and Sunday.

Classroom went at a BLISTERING pace... watch the video, answer questions, watch the video, answer questions.

The class was broken up into "teams" of 5-10 people, and each "round" each team was assigned between 5 and 7 questions to answer... The teams could either work together, or assign each question to a different person, rotating as needed so everyone had a chance. Most people in the class "personally" answered 2 or 3 questions, but it was a pretty big class.

I felt the class went too quickly for A) A new rider and B) Someone who had not purchased and read "MSF's Guide to Motorcycling Excellence.
Neither of the above applied to me (I bought the book the night I registered), and I aced the written.
Funny thing is, the next morning I missed 3 (of 4 allowed) on the DMV written to get my permit.

[luvda6R]

On the panic stop, don't go into it faster than you need to - I did that because I wanted to make damn sure I wasn't going too slow, and I was going a little faster than I thought and overshot it slightly. Just try to make sure you have the right speed, and be OFF the throttle juuust as you cruise into the the braking area.

Don't worry too much about it - after the practice you get, it's pretty hard to fail the test because you'd have to mess up completely on practically every skill (from what I remember). You can "half" screw up on multiple skills, and you'll be ok. If you do one thing, make sure you don't drop the bike during the test!! (esp. on the figure-8...if you have to go outside the line vs. possibly dropping the bike, go outside the line)

[Sassy Chassis]

Originally Posted by RichLockyer

Funny thing is, the next morning I missed 3 (of 4 allowed) on the DMV written to get my permit.

My boss just took the class and he got 100% on the written at the MSF but missed 4 on the DMV test. He said they had some trick questions in there

[RichLockyer]

Originally Posted by Sassy Chassis

My boss just took the class and he got 100% on the written at the MSF but missed 4 on the DMV test. He said they had some trick questions in there

Ya... one of the ones I missed was:

When following a vehicle at night, what is the best way to see further ahead?
A) Increase your following distance
B) Use the headlights of the vehicle ahead
C) Drop back and use your high beams


Of course, B is the correct answer, but A is ALSO something that you should do at night, or any time visibility is impaired. With it being the first on the list, it is very easy to pick one of the correct things to do, rather than the answer to the question, which is how to see further down the road. Of course, increasing following distance does nothing to help forward visibility, unless you are already too close to an 18 wheeler.

[tux259]

What a day! We actually ended up riding a ton today in addition to completeing the written work. I ended up getting 100% on the test, but that isn't much to brag about it. It was probably the easiest test I have ever taken.

Riding was a BLAST! We got GZ250's, but they still have a giddyup! The instructor had me leading after watching us do a couple things, so I guess I caught on pretty quickly.

The only thing that is really difficult for me is to keep my damn head/eyes up if I am thinking about other things(like an emergency stop, when you gotta apply both brakes and downshift and put your feet down etc). Shifting is also a pain, but that is because I have this enormous steel toed work boots that seriously can't fit under the lever without coaxing. I am gonna go get some that will really work tonight.

What a rush, though. I feel SO much safer and more skilled after taking the class. I can't imagine trying to ride without it..

So the riding test is tomorrow. I should ace it with some new boots!

Thanks again for all of the help. I am finally becoming a part of the club I have wanted to join for so long.

[nevin]

Thanks for the update my MSF is this weekend and I am nervous as sh*t....please give us another update after your class tomorrow!

thanks again and grats on having a blast

[RichLockyer]

Originally Posted by luvda6R

On the panic stop, don't go into it faster than you need to - I did that because I wanted to make damn sure I wasn't going too slow, and I was going a little faster than I thought and overshot it slightly. Just try to make sure you have the right speed, and be OFF the throttle juuust as you cruise into the the braking area.

Yes and no... the panic stop is another distance/time maneuver. The faster you GET TO the braking area, the more time you have to stop. The slower you go, the less time you have to stop.

A rare instance of the rules matching the laws of physics. As long as you're in 2nd on a 250, you will be able to stop in the required distance.

But remember.... IF YOU LOCK THE REAR BRAKE, KEEP IT LOCKED!!!
1) They don't like to see any high-sides in class
2) It shows that you listened and know how to react if you DO lock it up.

Front wheel... ya... let off and get back on it, but if you lock the rear brake under any conditions on road (offroad can different), ALWAYS ride it out and hope you don't go down. If you run out of room to continue moving the bars into the skid, do your best to lay it down and make it a survivable and (comparatively) painless low-side. High sides are all too often fatal.

Good writeup here:
http://www.msgroup.org/TIP001.html

Actually... after reading that, click "up" and bookmark the page. It was written by a former MSF Ridercoach and includes a lot of valuable information for the newbie and experienced rider alike.

[RichLockyer]

Originally Posted by tux259

We got GZ250's, but they still have a giddyup!

Don't discount the little thumpers! It's no 2000, but it's not an 800 pound bike either.
My dirtbike is a 250F (granted, with a 13k redline and sucks fuel like a 747 compared to a streetbike, cranks close to 35hp) but being 250 pounds, it has NEVER let me down. Would a 450 be nice? Sure it would in the sand washes, and maybe for a little more "oompf" on hillclimbs, but honestly, I have never thrown anything at it that it couldn't power through, including getting up to 80mph on pavement (redlines at 85 in 5th). It starts to get the wobbles above 55 on gravel/dirt though.

That GZ250 is probably not much over 300 pounds, so even with a 200 pound rider, the combination is STILL 200 pounds lighter than my 1600 by itself.

The little 250s and 500s are awesome bikes for cruising around town and campus (if your knees don't hit the handlebars )... where you'll find them lacking is at 60-65 on the highway, you'll be looking for and then wishing for another gear.

The only thing that is really difficult for me is to keep my damn head/eyes up

You'll catch on... every newbie does it.
It's easier once you get off of the range and out with traffic where it's obvious that you MUST look ahead.

Shifting is also a pain, but that is because I have this enormous steel toed work boots that seriously can't fit under the lever without coaxing. I am gonna go get some that will really work tonight.

When you get your own bike, you will be able to move the shift lever up to clear your boots, but if you get a 900 or larger with floorboards and a heel/toe shifter, you'll probably have enough room. I have enough room stock, but when I put the Kuryakyn cover on, it still cleared my "tactical" boots but not the steel toes.

If I used the heel shift, it would be a non-issue, but I'm so used to lifting my toe to upshift that I can't bring myself to use the heel pad unless I'm dropping it into neutral in the garage.

I'm not sure if the 900 has a two-piece heel/toe. The 1600 does, so you can move the tow higher and leave the heel stock.

What a rush, though. I feel SO much safer and more skilled after taking the class. I can't imagine trying to ride without it..

Absolutely... I took the class because, #1, I knew I wouldn't be able to pass the CA DMV's "Circle of Death" on a litre bike, and #2, I wanted to make sure that I had not picked up any habits riding offroad that would kill me on the highway. Guess what... there are a LOT of things that are common and acceptable offroad that can be big trouble on the road.

Good luck!

[tux259]

Thanks for coaching me through everything. I really appreciate it.

Just need to calm my nerves and I am sure I will be able to pass tomorrow. The guy said he thought most of us would, and there is one girl in my class who is pretty clueless.

[likearock4x4]