Keeping the front wheel down

[Supernut]

there is a great deal of discussion on many forums and doing wheelies but I would like to start a thread about riding technique to ride hard on the throttle and keep the front wheel down (more track oriented techniques). I know many racers use the rear break to keep front tire down there might be a road situation where one slips the clutch un-intentionally on a high power bike. any tips to keep it on two wheels while riding hard.

[stefano]

Well I have almost no riding experience whatsoever but I would imagine there are 2 ways to do that:

1. If you are riding a 600 cc bike where the wheel only comes up in 1st, you could shortshift to second just before the wheel comes up

2. Ease off the throtte ever so slightly when you know the wheel is going to come up in any gear (if using bigger bikes).

Both of these "techniques" entail knowing your bike well and knowing at what revs and in what gears the wheel comes up, and adjusting your throttle control / shifting timing accordingly.

Am I close?

[Lawn Masters]

My solution, just dont ride so hard, or attend a superbike school to learn how to handle keeping both wheels on the ground.

[Thmastr]

I ride prettyhard some times and that has never really been an issue for me... If I am leaning my back will give way before it attemps to lift the front... (if I accelerate that hard)
When my back catches and then lifts up my front about an inch then I am already straight enough to be able to controll it... and If I have to slow down soon after that I dont speed up that much... (I don't tide that hard!)

However I do recommend a track day... that way you will know exactly how much throttle you can give it... That is the thing I worked on the very first weekend I had my zzr...

If I do not feel like having the front pop up, or I notice that it is coming up too much I let go of the throttle just a fraction and then give it the same throttle so the weel comes down and by giving the same throttle again after less than one sec will either stop the weel from getting higher or will allow it to touch down in a very smooth way!

[CrazyCracka]

Well I have almost no riding experience whatsoever but I would imagine there are 2 ways to do that:

1. If you are riding a 600 cc bike where the wheel only comes up in 1st, you could shortshift to second just before the wheel comes up

2. Ease off the throtte ever so slightly when you know the wheel is going to come up in any gear (if using bigger bikes).

Both of these "techniques" entail knowing your bike well and knowing at what revs and in what gears the wheel comes up, and adjusting your throttle control / shifting timing accordingly.

Am I close?

You are close in that knowing your bike is a great thing to have. However I have had my front wheel come up going from 2nd to 3rd on FULL acceclaration at around 105 or so. So it is possible for the front end to come up in a different gear other then 1st.

Id say the easiest way to keep the front wheel down and to come out of a corner the smoothest is to ease on the throttle, dont come out of a corner and just whack it. Of course on a typical stock 600 you dont have TOO much to worry about, but on bigger bikes (mainly liter bikes) of course tire spin would be a major concern. I remember reading a comparison between advance 'amatuer' riders vs pro riders. One big difference they found was how the throttle was controlled. Pro riders would keep a very constant and solid throttle around the corner and slowly apply as the exited the apex, the 'amatuer' (who wasnt slow by any means) would be more apt to 'jump' on the throttle but they found that by slowly applying throttle, you would be at a faster cornering exit speed rather then just whackin it. I guess since you can slowly gain momentum over a longer space of track as opposed to coming around a corner and waiting a little later and just poppin it open.

ok Ima stop there, Im starting to ramble on in my posts...whats wrong with me o_0 haha

hope it helped some

[stefano]

Originally Posted by CrazyCracka

You are close in that knowing your bike is a great thing to have. However I have had my front wheel come up going from 2nd to 3rd on FULL acceclaration at around 105 or so. So it is possible for the front end to come up in a different gear other then 1st.

Are you sure you didn't accidentally throttle too hard before releasing the clutch? I did several bursts the other day at full acceleration, where I would short-shift into second from first when the wheel started to come up, but from 2nd to 4th I had the hammer down all the way and didn't get any more lift from the front wheel.

Still something to look out for I guess

[Thmastr]

if I get into the throttle a bit too early I will get lift off...

2nd to third or 3rd to 4rth.. and your guys' bikes are more powerful and also lighter... I do happen to be slightly off on my changes some times.. but that is enough to send the front weel up.....
becareful n be safe I wont say ride slow cause well... with a sport bike... I just cant seem to do that!

[stefano]

Originally Posted by Thmastr

if I get into the throttle a bit too early I will get lift off...

2nd to third or 3rd to 4rth.. and your guys' bikes are more powerful and also lighter... I do happen to be slightly off on my changes some times.. but that is enough to send the front weel up.....
becareful n be safe I wont say ride slow cause well... with a sport bike... I just cant seem to do that!

Damn... again, it might be some slight clutch slipping that caused that. When I did my runs I didn't roll on the throttle progressively after shifting, I was straight up on / off, and got no lift... either that, or I didn't realize it

[03kawipwrr]

If Im under hard acceleration my bike will come up easily a few inches from 1st-3rd, I ride with a 636 and my bike is also a lot harder to bring up the front than on my friends 636 just because of my suspension differences. And suspension is yet another thing I haven't seen brought up that determines how easilly you can wheelie, my bike (the zx6rr) comes from the factory on track set suspension, they sit completely differant than the 636 and it makes it alot harder to do wheelies on.

[neruos]

I've come to learn there are 2 main things to learn in order to keep the tires stickin and the speed high.

1. Learn throttle control.
2. Learn body control and your center.

You're body will change, you will shift around to meet the ability your trying to accomplish. Gunning the throttle puts your brain in a on/off mentality around accelerating. This can lead to a bad habit on non-straight-away areas, where you will not be able to handle it.

[zx10r rider]

I ride an 05 10R and I don't have any issue with the front popping up. I hit it hard from 1st to 2nd to 3rd, still down. I'm 5' 11" @ 200lbs. If this doesn't sound righ, give me a feed back. The bike is stock w/ a slip on.Maybe I should take it in and have it DYNO to see if she's 100%. I can't find anyone in my area to compare throttle respons to.

[CrazyCracka]

I ride an 05 10R and I don't have any issue with the front popping up. I hit it hard from 1st to 2nd to 3rd, still down. I'm 5' 11" @ 200lbs. If this doesn't sound righ, give me a feed back. The bike is stock w/ a slip on.Maybe I should take it in and have it DYNO to see if she's 100%. I can't find anyone in my area to compare throttle respons to.

Yea that doesnt sound right at all. A zx10 should be pretty tough to keep on the ground if your really holdin it wide open then whole time.

Are you sure you didn't accidentally throttle too hard before releasing the clutch? I did several bursts the other day at full acceleration, where I would short-shift into second from first when the wheel started to come up, but from 2nd to 4th I had the hammer down all the way and didn't get any more lift from the front wheel.

Still something to look out for I guess

Well it wasnt like I started to pop a wheelie but I was fully tucked and ran it all the way to 15.5 and shifted, quick, not slow and I got some steering shake, where the handle bars go back and forth. That indicates that the wheel was just slightly off or coming off of the pavement. Sorry, I didnt mean to make it sound like I was hitting wheelies in 3rd, although it is possible on a 636 o_0

Another thing may be if your bike is fairly new you may want to avoid completely runnin the whole rpms or at least on a regular basis. Once its broken in you should notice a bit more response and power overall

[stefano]

Originally Posted by CrazyCracka

Well it wasnt like I started to pop a wheelie but I was fully tucked and ran it all the way to 15.5 and shifted, quick, not slow and I got some steering shake, where the handle bars go back and forth. That indicates that the wheel was just slightly off or coming off of the pavement. Sorry, I didnt mean to make it sound like I was hitting wheelies in 3rd, although it is possible on a 636 o_0

Another thing may be if your bike is fairly new you may want to avoid completely runnin the whole rpms or at least on a regular basis. Once its broken in you should notice a bit more response and power overall

Gotcha...

About the break-in, I followed advice posted elsewhere on this forum that suggests that running it hard from the get-go is actually a much better way to break-in the bike. Since it's only got about 100 miles on it, though, I do hope to notice some improvement gains in the not too distant future

[CrazyCracka]

I would suggest combining the two methods. the one which says take it easy and the other which says ride it like you stole it. just mix it up pretty sure and persoanlly I think that's the best break in. just be sure when on the freeway to not keep the rpms the same.

[stefano]

Originally Posted by CrazyCracka

I would suggest combining the two methods. the one which says take it easy and the other which says ride it like you stole it. just mix it up pretty sure and persoanlly I think that's the best break in. just be sure when on the freeway to not keep the rpms the same.

Good to hear that, it's exactly what I've been doing... a few quiet stretches followed by some heavy duty acceleration and deceleration.

How important do you think not riding steady revs on the freeway is? I ask because this weekend I will be doing at least 125 miles of freeway riding and it's a bit of a hassle to keep throttling and then letting off... do you think if I keep the revs low (there ARE speed limits here in Italy as well!), around 7/8K, that would be fine?

[CrazyCracka]

well from what I've heard and from people I've talked with, keeping a steady rpm during th break in period isn't a good idea. but that's just what I've heard....maybe some of the more hardcore mechanics on here can verify or tell you somethin else.

[stefano]

Right on...

Thanks for keeping me up to scratch!