UPDATE: should i change over to synth. Oil

[71_307]

Hi i own a 90 ex500 and jsut wondering if i should change over to synthetic oil or jsut use normal oil cuz of its age???? and if i can change over is there anything you have to do to prep the engine to except synth. oil or will it mesh with the little oil thats left in the engine???... lastly what should i look for.. can i use Mobil One 15W50 ( like the regular one not the one made for actaully motorcycles)


thanks for any help

Dan

[ZX10 Guy]

You don't need to do anything to prepare your bike for use with synthetic. You don't need to flush your motor completely. You can actually mix regular dino oil and synthetic together and be fine. Also, the age of the bike won't matter. You can switch over at anytime and be fine. The only thing I would watch for is if your clutch will take to synthetic. I've heard some issues with certain clutches and synthetic causing clutch slippage. Some have found a good compromise with using a synthetic blend (which is premixed synthetic and dino oil.) Also, be aware that not all synthetics are "true" synthetics. I forget the the whole thing but there was a court case that was brought against Castrol for their use of synthetic on their synthetic line of oils. Apparently, they were just refining the oil base further to help better its properties and not using the more expensive approach by actually synthesizing/manufacturing the oil base. Because Castrol won the case, many companies have jumped on the band wagon to use the cheaper method of producing their synthetic oils. Mobile used to be a true synthetic but now has gone the way of Castrol. The only true synthetics out there that I can recall are Amsoil, Redline, and I think Royal Purple.

As far as using automotive or motorcycle branded oils, there is much debate on this issue. Many have tried automotive oils with great results. Some have had some problems. But again it's all annecdotal. It's your bike and it's up to you what you want to use. But here is something that can't be disputed, motorcycle oils indeed are actually slightly different than automotive oils. They do have different additives and some at different proportions than their automotive counterparts. Also the friction modifiers are different between automotive and motorcycle oils. Motorcycle oil is made to be compatible with wet style clutches and transmissions in motorcycles that use engine oil. Automotive oils were never designed with this in mind. To me the cost savings isn't worth the potential headaches. Again it's your bike.

[Freakinout]

Has the bike been very well maintained?

I ask this because often times dino oil will build up deposits and if you switch to synthetic the new oil will knock all the old oil loose and can cause an oil leak (leak was already there, bad seals covered in thick oil.)

[Curt]

Originally Posted by ZX10 Guy

You don't need to do anything to prepare your bike for use with synthetic. . . . You can switch over at anytime and be fine.

Yup, although some people will disagree with you.

Originally Posted by ZX10 Guy

I've heard some issues with certain clutches and synthetic causing clutch slippage.

I think that's a myth. I think friction modifiers can do it, but I don't think that being synthetic is what does it.

Originally Posted by ZX10 Guy

. . . motorcycle oils indeed are actually slightly different than automotive oils.

Yup. The difference is pretty minor, but it is real. I think it's worth it to pay extra to get the best for my baby.

Originally Posted by ZX10 Guy

Also the friction modifiers are different between automotive and motorcycle oils.

Yup. some automotive oils contain "friction modifiers." These are great for cars, but terrible for bikes. They can make the clutch slip. It is my understanding that if oil contains these modifiers, it will have "SJ" on the label.

If I were a cheap *******, I'd buy off-brand auto oil in a heartbeat. Instead I buy fully synthetic motorcycle oil. It costs four times as much, but it's only a few bucks difference.

And like Freakinout alluded to, it would be a good idea to check for oil leaks after you switch over to synthetic. You may need to change some seals.
Curt

[Freakinout]

What you need to look for on the bottle for friction modifiers is a circle label on the front that says "Energy Conserving" Those particular oils will cause your clutch to slip. Otherwise they SHOULD all work okay, but you'll have to try a particular oil before you can be sure.

I use Rotella T 5w-40 full synthetic (walmart sells it) great stuff, at a decent price.

[Narcisse91]

I went the same route as Freakinout, except I use Mobil Delvac.

They're actually not standard automotive oils. They're designed for heavy duty use (sometimes called diesel oils). They're much more durable then just regular automotive oils, higher quality, and still pretty inexpensive (a bit more expensive then a normal automotive oil, but not as expensive as a high performance automotive oil, like Redline or Royal Purple).

My clutch grabs better with the Mobil Delvac then it did with Mobil 1 Motorcycle oil.

[Freakinout]

Originally Posted by Narcisse91

My clutch grabs better with the Mobil Delvac then it did with Mobil 1 Motorcycle oil.

Ditto.

[71_307]

hi thanks for the replys... is Mobil Delvac called jsut that cuz i was on Mobil 1's site and theres like Delvac 1 and Delvac super and so on... what weight do you use??? cuz i say 15w50 but is that too thick?? also is the delvac synthetic??

[Curt]

I use 10W40 on my Ninja 250R. The manual says I can use 10W40, 10W50, 20W40, or 20W50. So 15W50 should be just fine.
Curt

[ZX-2R]

Just switch over to Synthetic and keep a record of your fuel mileage to see if it actually increases. I almost always use AMSOIL, but I drained the oil the other day went to the barn to get some and found I was out! So I picked up some Mobile 15W50 Synthetic. I like AMSOIL and believe in it. I was a dealere for 3 years and have been out of it for th past 4 years because AMSOIL refused to take my Ex-wifes name off of the dealership unles she signed a Form....Yeah, Like she would do that. I use AMSOIL in my van and change the Filter every 5,000 miles and go about 25,000 before I change it if it is starting to get dark. I believe in AMSOIL and even their filters.

[Narcisse91]

Originally Posted by 71_307

hi thanks for the replys... is Mobil Delvac called jsut that cuz i was on Mobil 1's site and theres like Delvac 1 and Delvac super and so on... what weight do you use??? cuz i say 15w50 but is that too thick?? also is the delvac synthetic??

I think I used Mobil Delvac Super 1300 or something like that. There is a synthetic version and a non-synthetic version. I'm using the non-synthetic version, and I think it is 15w40. 15w50 just has a few more additives in it and should be fine. There is a synthetic version as well, that is the Delvac 1, if I remember right.

If I remember, I'll verify the oil weight when I park the bike in the garage today after work.

[ipscshooter]

Originally Posted by ZX10 Guy

Because Castrol won the case, many companies have jumped on the band wagon to use the cheaper method of producing their synthetic oils. Mobile used to be a true synthetic but now has gone the way of Castrol.

I recall the Castrol case. Do you have specific info that Mobile 1 is NOT fully synthetic? I would be interested in seeing it, as I plan to switch to their sythentic Motorcycle oil in the future.

[71_307]

wouldnt that be pretty bad if Mobil 1 isnt full synthetic cuz dont most to all high end auto manufactures tell you to use Mobil One to keep your warrenty void??

[ZX10 Guy]

I'll have to dig up the particulars. I was chatting with one of my car/biker enthusiast friends on line about it via an email chat group. I'll have to sift through my emails to find the conversation we had.

[Cale]

I use Kawasaki Full Syntetic, and I believe it cannot be wrong.

[Narcisse91]

I had read somewhere (that I can't find again, conveniently) that there is a percentage of oil that needs to be synthetic for it to be called synthetic. That means there is potentially no difference between semi-synethic and just synthetic. I don't know how that applies to full synthetic labelled oils, though.

[ZZX]

Found this site on another forum:

http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Oils1.html

It has a lot of interesting things to say about Oil and the different types of oil available. This guy goes into a lot of depth about the different types of oil and it makes me glad that I decided to use the Shell Rotella synthetic 5w40. There is also some research done on oil filters and what filters will fit different bikes available on this site.

[Narcisse91]

That's the article I was referencing... Good find.

In the late 1990s, Castrol started selling an oil made from Group III base oil and called it SynTec Full Synthetic. Mobil sued Castrol, asserting that this oil was not synthetic, but simply a highly refined petroleum oil, and therefore it was false advertising to call it synthetic. In 1999, Mobil lost their lawsuit. It was decided that the word "synthetic" was a marketing term and referred to properties, not to production methods or ingredients. Castrol continues to make SynTec out of Group III base oils, that is highly purified mineral oil with most all of the cockroach bits removed.

"Semi-synthetics" are oils which are a blend of petroleum oil and no more than 30% synthetic oil. If the manufacturer adds no more than 30% synthetic oil and does not change the additive package, they do not have to recertify the oil. These days, since everyone has agreed that Group III base oils are "synthetic," I'm not sure "semi-synthetic" means anything at all.

How does everyone interpret those paragraphs?

[ZX-2R]

AMSOIL not only sells oil that is 100% synthetic you can also purchase a kit where you send in your oil or analysis each time/anytime and they will send you Back the report. It's something that if you want to be Specific (anal) about you can be. I know that Wney you replace their filters every 5,000 miles you restore the oil (about 20% of it each time that you change the filter and you CAN go in excess of 50,000 miles if you change it every 5,000 miles on your odometer. I changed over at 2,500 miles on my bike and at 5,000 I changed the filter, and did so every 5,000 miles from that point on, sending a sample of oil directly from my spin on oil filter in the sealed plastic bottle to them. My old 1983 Suzuki GS450S when I sold it in 1986 would still hit red-line in sixth gear anytime. The tach was almost red-lined in 4th and would hit red-line almost immediately in 5th gear and all you could do is watch the tach climb in 5th and 6th, because the bike only went to 85MPH on the speedometer. My 1983 Mercury LN7 1.6HO motor was still capable of doing the same thing when I sold it before being transfered to Alaska. If you dowbt the abilities of 1005 systhetic oils, not only purchase the oil sample program, but log every fuel stop and watch your mileage. I'm sold on it. I'm no longer a dealer but if you get to go to a demonstration take along your favorite bike oil to one of these demonstrations and ask the presentor to please use your oil to see how it holds up in the demonstration. When it comes to adding Liquid Nitrogen to a pan with the beakers of oils setting in it you will have the opportunity to see what happens when you attempt to use the wooden paint stirrers, then again you will see the results of the fire test...definately worth attending if you can find an AMSOIL event in your area.

[71_307]

soo Mobil One is castrol oil???