Would you recommend a 600cc supersport to a noob?

[Kevorkian]

Originally Posted by Ninja_Wendy

I've seen that one before "don't even give it gas!!!"

Guys do the craziest stuff sometimes. They gave their friend almost NO instruction whatsoever and let him almost kill himself and then they thought it was the funniest thing they ever saw.

Yeah, welcome to YouTube!

[Kevorkian]

Originally Posted by bennice

Trust me, I get what you're saying, and I get the whole other side of the argument. Road hazards, foolish riding, respect for the power of a sportbike, and discipline...those things are just part of the overall equation. Without knowing a person's skill or their exposure to motorcycles or even driving, how could you recommend a bike capable of the acceleration that all recent generations of supersports can deliver? Why recommend something that really does require additional skill above and beyond what a run-of-the-mill motorcycle needs in order to ride proficiently?

In your MSF class, they taught that a big part of riding successfully is about minimizing risks, right? Do you not agree that putting 100+ HP in an unskilled fist is an additional risk?

This doesn't mean that other bikes are somehow safer than others - I don't believe that. A safe bike is one that functions properly IMO. But the point is, until a newb has some context as to what riding a motorcycle is REALLY like, then they may be best off figuring out all that stuff on something less apt to put them on their back if they make a mistake.

There are a few Youtube videos out there of what I'm talking about. One in particular that I remember, this guy with a GSXR lets his buddy try his bike for the first time. His buddy obviously had never ridden before. He hops on the bike and pins the throttle back and takes off. Bike wheelies, dumps newb on the ground, bike crashes, newb says he "only gave it a little throttle," bike owner laughs and informs him that he had the throttle almost fully open, owner inspects totaled bike, video ends. I'll see if I can find it sometime and post the link.

BTW - glad you like your butterfly. ZZR's are one of my favorites. The shop owner that tried to sell you a 14 obviously cared nothing about your safety, and isn't paid to do so. I'd steer clear of that person if you ever go back there. Those are the kinds of people that would sell you something used as new, and then not refund your money when you brought it back.

And that is where we find out about the newb before slammin' them into a bike they wont like.

I would have not liked the 250. Did I choose my bike on looks? Nahhh, not at all..... Did power have something to do with it? Sure did! But, I asked nobodys opinion, in fact, I went against what everyone but my Dad told me. You are an idiot to get that bike. Maybe I am! I do my best to keep everything as safe as I can, hence me doing 110 lol. You gotta test it tho.

Nobody rides like the MSF instructors say, they do to a point, but yeah. Minimize risk? Minimize it to your likings is more like it. I understand what they are saying and try to do that for the most part. There is a risk vs fun factor involved tho. So, do it as best you can eh!

A rider determines the bike. Should they? Not all, but there are those out there that can. The other ones we can watch on YouTube.

[ervins]

Originally Posted by seadood228

After reading the last couple of pages, there is a part of me that is starting to agree with Ervins point of view, at least in California.

Compared to Colorado, the pace is much more brisk when traffic allows. Not that a 250 is slow, but I could see a few "sandwhich" scenario's being played out on a 250..

Then again, I've never ridden a two-fiddy.

I have yet to see a 250 on the left side of the lane in consistent traffic...I am talking about 80mph (I am also giving you the miniumum)...That is minimum speed in CA with minimal traffic for that lane...Next lane over is 70ish...Come on out and try for yourself...There are cars out here flying by motorcycles...Trucks as well and I mean 18 wheelers. Not to say you can not see 250s...I am saying they are all in the right lane and thank goodness they are because people out here drive like maniacs...

[ervins]

Change minds NO...The key is to see both sides. I see both sides. But yes, in the end everyone has a side they will pick over the other. Like Yankees over Boston...Yankees all the time.

Originally Posted by likearock4x4

OK, I gotta ask...

Is anyone being convinced to change their minds by any of this conversation???

Do the statistics help to make anyones points??

I tend to doubt it. I can see both sides of it.

Not that you asked, but my opinion is that a SUPERSPORT is NEVER the bike to learn on!!! I'm not saying that a 250 is... that would be ludicrous, I can see a 500 or a 650, but nothing more powerful. There's just too much chance for the new rider to freak out at the sudden rush of power in the event that the twist more than they planned on--especially when learning to corner or weave. Of course the rider's size, build, maturity, age, experience, training, and many other things have to be considered when making a recommendation. AND, as others here have said... the new rider is going to buy what he wants... I'd say that as the experienced rider, it is your responsibility to at least try your DARNDEST to make him/her WANT to buy the proper bike. (Just remember that if he were to get hurt badly or killed because he made a mistake on a bike that he was steered to by you, you'd have to live with your consciense for that.) One additional thing to consider when deciding what bike to recommend: If the bike is too small or too large physically for them, they will be uncomfortable, and will be distracted by this discomfort. This takes away some of their attention from what they should be concentrating on (the road and what's on it) and diverts it to the area of discomfort. (I can say this it true first hand... I went through that situation.)

I'd say my position is somewhere between the two sides being argued here.

[ervins]

I agree...Everyone turn in your 275HP cars until you are ready to move up to 150HP Camry...But first you must drive a 100HP Paseo first...Ha.

Originally Posted by crazyinkamloops

I have changed my mind on this topic.

I now feel strongly that all newbies should learn not just on a measly little 600 SS bike, but instead a minimum of 1000 SS bike, also turboed and NOS on it.

They should learn to ride this bike in a snow blizzard, and not be allowed to do under 250 MPH, and should be doubling their Grandmother the whole time as well.

That sounds plenty safe to me.

[ervins]

I'm going to turn in my 6.5HP lawn mover and start on 5HP first. God forbid, I cut my toes...Which actually happened to my neighbor...He admitted to being a clutz...Yep USER ERROR.

[bennice]

Originally Posted by ervins

Change minds NO...The key is to see both sides. I see both sides. But yes, in the end everyone has a side they will pick over the other. Like Yankees over Boston...Yankees all the time.

I'm with you on that. I see both sides, but honestly there isn't much to like about the Boston side

[bennice]

Originally Posted by ervins

I'm going to turn in my 6.5HP lawn mover and start on 5HP first. God forbid, I cut my toes...Which actually happened to my neighbor...He admitted to being a clutz...Yep USER ERROR.

pshhhhawwwww!!!

Your lawnmower is lame! Step up to the 12HP and then you might be able to hang with the big boys and girls.

[ervins]

Originally Posted by bennice

I'm with you on that. I see both sides, but honestly there isn't much to like about the Boston side

See we agreed on that...I would have loved to see Colorado win just because my boss is from Boston....Now we all agree it is all about the Yankees right?

[ervins]

Originally Posted by bennice

pshhhhawwwww!!!

Your lawnmower is lame! Step up to the 12HP and then you might be able to hang with the big boys and girls.

12hp?!?!??!?!?!?!?!!???! Where did you get that? Jeez...Out here everything is 6.5 or something low...See that is too much Bennice...You put to much throttle on that bad boy bro, I do not want to hear that you mowed over the wife's roses or took out the shrubs...Wow...I really do need a new lawn mover.

[Kevorkian]

Originally Posted by bennice

The shop owner that tried to sell you a 14 obviously cared nothing about your safety, and isn't paid to do so. I'd steer clear of that person if you ever go back there. Those are the kinds of people that would sell you something used as new, and then not refund your money when you brought it back.

I am pretty sure she was joking, I know her well. They do look fun tho!

[Kevorkian]

Originally Posted by bennice

pshhhhawwwww!!!

Your lawnmower is lame! Step up to the 12HP and then you might be able to hang with the big boys and girls.

Where is the would you recommed a 12hp lawnmower to a noob thread?

Erv, you need to start out with a push mower, c'mon guys flame him!

- all in fun

I actually have and use a push mower!!

[likearock4x4]

Originally Posted by Kevorkian

Where is the would you recommed a 12hp lawnmower to a noob thread?

Erv, you need to start out with a push mower, c'mon guys flame him!

- all in fun

I actually have and use a push mower!!

You mean like the old ones that have the blades that go round and round driven by the wheels?? You really need to upgrade.

[ervins]

Originally Posted by Kevorkian

Where is the would you recommed a 12hp lawnmower to a noob thread?

Erv, you need to start out with a push mower, c'mon guys flame him!

- all in fun

I actually have and use a push mower!!

Bennice busts out the 12HP lawn mower and now this weekend I am out to look for one...I honestly love mowing and I see that as a good thing to have since I keep the grass sorta long...My old dog chewed up the bag on my existing lawn mower so I guess I am in the market for a new one...My neighbor has push mover...I helped him with yard work one day and tried it and almost biatch slapped him for not having a gas mower.

[ervins]

Originally Posted by likearock4x4

You mean like the old ones that have the blades that go round and round driven by the wheels?? You really need to upgrade.

I swear those things are tough to use...They should be illegal

[Kevorkian]

Originally Posted by likearock4x4

You mean like the old ones that have the blades that go round and round driven by the wheels?? You really need to upgrade.

Yeah, the ones that anything over 1 inch and the mower freezes and the handle goes into your gut. Gottal love it. It is small, works for my yard / storage and is pretty much the only excercise I get. And it is a work out some days.

[Kevorkian]

Originally Posted by ervins

Bennice busts out the 12HP lawn mower and now this weekend I am out to look for one...I honestly love mowing and I see that as a good thing to have since I keep the grass sorta long...My old dog chewed up the bag on my existing lawn mower so I guess I am in the market for a new one...My neighbor has push mover...I helped him with yard work one day and tried it and almost biatch slapped him for not having a gas mower.

Don't be a wuss, mowing 3 inch grass with one of those things puts hair on your chest.

I actually think they are more dangerous than gas powered tho. Have had a few close calls with the stray cat, till the neighbors turned me in for chasing it down the driveway.

[ervins]

Originally Posted by Kevorkian

Don't be a wuss, mowing 3 inch grass with one of those things puts hair on your chest.

I actually think they are more dangerous than gas powered tho. Have had a few close calls with the stray cat, till the neighbors turned me in for chasing it down the driveway.

I have hair on my chest though...That thing will give me a stroke in the summer days. I can't be doing the Fred Flinstone crap in 2008.

Plus I get my exercise when I walk the golf course on Sundays...Mowing is a Saturday thing for me.

[ZXsexR]

I know im a little late to this thread but...
anywya
I started on the bike I have now and I feel VERY comfortable on it I think it al has to do with how slow you take it at first getting a feel for the bike... then gradually working your way up in speed, mobility, where you ride, how long you ride, I think it is all a factor.
I buddy of mine got a 03 busa' for his first bike and he respects the hell out of it... and in turn it respects him back, I think that is the key knowing your limitations and knowing what your bike can do...

[ervins]

Originally Posted by ZXsexR

I know im a little late to this thread but...
anywya
I started on the bike I have now and I feel VERY comfortable on it I think it al has to do with how slow you take it at first getting a feel for the bike... then gradually working your way up in speed, mobility, where you ride, how long you ride, I think it is all a factor.
I buddy of mine got a 03 busa' for his first bike and he respects the hell out of it... and in turn it respects him back, I think that is the key knowing your limitations and knowing what your bike can do...

Good words.