Would you recommend a 600cc supersport to a noob?

[MR.S7]

Originally Posted by JimmyD

I don't always recommend a 250 either. I started on (essentially) an EX500 cruiser.

AGREE. i think one of the best Start motorcycles is an EX500 but sport bike for me. the ex500 is the def best bike to start. just the sport bike not super sport.

[Uthor]

Originally Posted by RichLockyer

That pretty much eliminates anything bigger than the Vulcan 500.

No, it eliminates any Kawasaki over 500. You can still get any of the 650 cruisers from the other companies.

Face it, most people learning to ride a bike will drop it. Getting a 550 lb 900 or a 770 lb Nomad (like I see regularly recomended), then adding 100+ lbs in accessories and chrome is just asking for trouble.

[seanyb505]

I would not recommend a supersport to a beginner. My first bike was a 233 cruiser no-name. I drove it for a week before springing for a deal on a YZF 600R. While I never dropped it, it was still too much power for me to handle at my skill level even though I never explored that power. I knew to keep the gas down low, ignoring my 21 year old brain and completely respecting the bike as well as driving conditions. I doubt most 21 year olds can resist the urge of speed which is why I wouldnt recommend such a bike. As to what bike to recommend...I think it depends on the person, how intelligent they are and what theyre looking for.

[RichLockyer]

Originally Posted by Uthor

No, it eliminates any Kawasaki over 500. You can still get any of the 650 cruisers from the other companies.

Face it, most people learning to ride a bike will drop it. Getting a 550 lb 900 or a 770 lb Nomad (like I see regularly recomended), then adding 100+ lbs in accessories and chrome is just asking for trouble.

V-Star 650 Classic is 505 dry.
Honda Shadow VLX is 452 dry, but '07 was the last year for it. Next up is the Shadow Spirit 750 at 503 dry.
Only the Suzuki S40 and S50 remains under 500 pounds/over 500cc... but the C50 (true cruiser, the S50 is more of a "standard") is at 542.

Likewise, the Spirit and VLX are strippers... they carry the look of the Harley Dyna series, but lack bags, floorboards, etc...


I've dropped my 1600 3 times. No trouble lifting it. Using the proper technique, anyone can lift an 800 pound bike. The same technique SHOULD be used for a lighter bike or injury can result.

[orange636]

WOW, I am way in the minority here. Let me start by saying I bought my '04 636 this past spring as my first two-wheeled, engine-powered vehicle ever. I had probably been on buddies' dirtbikes for a combined time of two hours my whole life prior to this purchase. Jump forward to the end of this season, my first. Yes, I told myself before I got the bike that I would be responsible and, no, I didn't quite do that and, yes, there were a few near-death experiences this summer. But in the end it's all about the experience. I'll never try to pass my buddy's car on a narrow backroad, so far in the oncoming lane that my front-end pops off a sewer grate (yes, the ones on the side of the road), put the bars down crooked, and get such bad tank-slappers that my veering causes my buddy to almost hit me before I finally am able to regain control. And, no, I'll never try to corner like I'm a MotoGP racer without letting my tires adequately warm up. I could continue on and on about the many things I've learned to do and not to do this past summer. I don't think it has anything to do with engine size, horsepower, or bike when it comes to noobs and new bikes. But it has everything to do with maturity and responsibility. It's easy for me to look back now and say, "Hell yes, I survived my first season, anybody can do it." But I did my fair share of stupid **** and learned very quickly from it without any negative outcomes (thank God). With enough discipline, I think a noob could start on a 14. But it all goes back to how responsible and mature the rider is, not how big the bike is.

[Uthor]

Originally Posted by RichLockyer

V-Star 650 Classic is 505 dry.
Honda Shadow VLX is 452 dry, but '07 was the last year for it. Next up is the Shadow Spirit 750 at 503 dry.
Only the Suzuki S40 and S50 remains under 500 pounds/over 500cc... but the C50 (true cruiser, the S50 is more of a "standard") is at 542.

Likewise, the Spirit and VLX are strippers... they carry the look of the Harley Dyna series, but lack bags, floorboards, etc...

And?

[JimmyD]

You're saying the 650 cruisers would make a good starter bike after saying larger cruisers are too heavy.

Rich is saying there are no middleweight cruisers that weigh less than 500 pounds, save for the Vulcan 500 which is a Ninja with a cruiser frame anyway.

I'm up on the air on this one. Most 250 cruisers (Suzuki, Yamaha, Honda) are severely underpowered in comparison to the EX250 powerplant. I think the Rebel is putting out 17 horsepower compared to the EX's 32?

There IS no true "middleweight" anymore other than the Vulcan5. And that bike definitely isn't everyone's cup of tea or there's be a lot more on the road. The next step up (now that the VLX600 is gone) is Honda's 750's. They're underpowered but they're also 500 pounds dry. That's a lot of bike for a newbie.

You have to understand, I rode in the dirt for years as a kid. My 80 weighed (maybe) 250 pounds wet. That thing was a total blast but it seemed like it was a HUGE deal when you're 13. I don't understand how someone can go into a dealership and plunk down cash for a 600 pound bike as their first ride.

I rode my friends KZ750 and it's probably in the range of 550 pounds. Holy **** is all I can say. It IS its own bike but it handled like a freight train compared to my EX.

It's funny to see the lightweight market continue to shrivel up with all these new riders coming into motorcycling. Kawi gets rid of the 800 which to me was a GREAT starter v-twin and did everything well, then Honda axes the 600 (which wasn't the greatest bike, it had NO power but it was an excellent foot in the door).

There used to be 400 shadows, 450 rebels, 454 LTDs, CB350s, 550 fours, all sorts of LIGHT bikes that weren't breaking much more than 50hp. Europe has all sorts of small displacement bikes because of tiered licensing. Those days are gone and it seems the bigger is better attitude is still rampant. I thought the industry was finally starting to smarten up.

I guess this is where the Chinese/Korean bikes come in. Hyosung has a very nice lineup of 650s, some cruiser style.

[xeon]

Originally Posted by orange636

WOW, I am way in the minority here. Let me start by saying I bought my '04 636 this past spring as my first two-wheeled, engine-powered vehicle ever. ... Yes, I told myself before I got the bike that I would be responsible and, no, I didn't quite do that and, yes, there were a few near-death experiences this summer. But in the end it's all about the experience.

It's easy for me to look back now and say, "Hell yes, I survived my first season, anybody can do it." But I did my fair share of stupid **** and learned very quickly from it without any negative outcomes (thank God). With enough discipline, I think a noob could start on a 14. But it all goes back to how responsible and mature the rider is, not how big the bike is.

How can you assume someone else has the responsibility to start on a SS, much less a 14? It is a tricky proposition at best.

It sounds like by the grace of God you remain on this earth. Some people die as a result of what you refer to as stupid "stuff". By your own admission you were reckless and did not respect the bike you were on. Granted you might have been dangerous on most anything with two wheels, but a 636 certainly does exacerbate things for sure. I don't understand why that is such a hard concept for some to accept. I honestly think it is a pride/ego issue... that is only my opinion though.

Not trying to pick on you or anything, but your post affirms yet again my stance on what I suggest to new riders; on the net and in real life.

[Ninja_Wendy]

I am getting tired of my 250 but only because the new one is so much prettier. The poor thing has an ugly mug, it looks nice from the side though. Even though I have had it only about 4 months, if I do upgrade soon, I won't regret having started on a 250. It really was the right thing for ME. I know it will be a little like starting over with a bigger bike but I was very intimidated and I really needed to start out small.

[Tweek]

Late to this thread.

I prefer to recommend liter bikes to n00bs. Much easier to ride. Don't have to worry about feathering the clutch on take off. No real need to deal with that pesky shifter thing - just park it in 2nd gear and leave it.

As a bonus they can start learning to do wheelies on their first day. just twist the grip and hold on.

[eidian]

Originally Posted by honestlyinsane

My wife was getting into riding 6 yrs ago and I wanted her to get a zx6r then considered a supersport.
Only due to the fact that if she got a 250 (which she did) I knew she would get sick of it (which she did).
and got rid of it in less than a year.

I have a question for you honestlyinsane (and for everyone else that has the notion that people "will get sick of a 250"): Isn't it better for someone to learn on a smaller cc bike and "get bored" with it in a year rather than to get a SuperSport and possibly be dead in a week? I'm not trying to start a fight, I'm just trying to gauge how conservative I am overall.

Responsibility and maturity aside, people make mistakes. Very early on there were a couple of times I twisted the throttle on my little 500R--my first bike--a bit more than I wanted and I thought, "Thank goodness I'm not riding a ZX6-R, I'd be planted in the back gate of that SUV right now if I was". I wasn't doing anything "squidly" or daring...I was just riding in rush hour traffic. After a year of riding, I twisted the throttle on my friend's '06 CBR600RR--in nuetral--just to see what it feels like and I couldn't believe how quickly that bike went up to 9k! I asked, "What the hell is that!?...how the hell do you ride this thing in traffic!?". He calmly replied, "It's called power...and you ride it with experience".

[alec]

My first bike was the zx6r. If they can handle the power and the ability to do anything they want on streets, I don't see why they shouldn't be able to drive a 600. On the other hand, this is coming from a guy who's been playing goalie for all his life, it has made me very alert and aware of my surroundings so I was very comfortable driving my zixxer.

Now, if it was someone I don't know then no way. It takes a lot of responsibility to drive one of these machines and there's a lot of people who shouldn't be driving the 600. But, then again, I don't really care about other people I don't know...if they die, so be it, I won't loose a single minute of sleep.

[waltdisney]

Simply, NO !

Buy a 650 maybe, as they tend to be mellowed out a lot....say a nice SV 650, or any older 450-750 bike from the 80's or early 90's, like say a Nighthawk, GS, or Katana style.....they give you a cool looking ride, while being mellow.
My pal bought a Katana 750, and while it was a nice bike for her, I rode it and thought it looked like it had 3 times as much power as it actually did....great for her first bike, as it was extremely tame, but she also got to look cool ( important to her ) as she rode around town.

[ervins]

Originally Posted by orange636

WOW, I am way in the minority here. Let me start by saying I bought my '04 636 this past spring as my first two-wheeled, engine-powered vehicle ever. I had probably been on buddies' dirtbikes for a combined time of two hours my whole life prior to this purchase. Jump forward to the end of this season, my first. Yes, I told myself before I got the bike that I would be responsible and, no, I didn't quite do that and, yes, there were a few near-death experiences this summer. But in the end it's all about the experience. I'll never try to pass my buddy's car on a narrow backroad, so far in the oncoming lane that my front-end pops off a sewer grate (yes, the ones on the side of the road), put the bars down crooked, and get such bad tank-slappers that my veering causes my buddy to almost hit me before I finally am able to regain control. And, no, I'll never try to corner like I'm a MotoGP racer without letting my tires adequately warm up. I could continue on and on about the many things I've learned to do and not to do this past summer. I don't think it has anything to do with engine size, horsepower, or bike when it comes to noobs and new bikes. But it has everything to do with maturity and responsibility. It's easy for me to look back now and say, "Hell yes, I survived my first season, anybody can do it." But I did my fair share of stupid **** and learned very quickly from it without any negative outcomes (thank God). With enough discipline, I think a noob could start on a 14. But it all goes back to how responsible and mature the rider is, not how big the bike is.

This is the view people do not see...Many people sat the exact thing...Anyone can start on any bike...It is up to them. On one discussion in another forum, someone said the same thing...Anyone can start on a 10R....However, it is up to them to make it dangerous.

[ervins]

Your first paragraph is what matters...Your wife got sick of it...Getting sick of a bike is not because you have done anything and everything on it...No, it means that the thrill is no longer there. Anyone who think that a 250 is all they need are in massive denial or live in sticks. No way a 250 is all you need...I see 250s here and they are all in the right lane...No way can they keep up with steady CA traffic...Did I mention the windy days? Also, if you intent is to ride a 600 one day why for God's sake start ona 250? Then work your way up? Your 250 is nothing like a 600 in regards to power...Yeah you learn to shift, brake, steer...Then what? You get on that 600 and you are just intimidated by the power that you are rendered noob again. Seriously people there is more to riding than just CCs. If you can't agree on that, then for sure I can not agree with any of this 250 cirque de solei conversation.

Originally Posted by honestlyinsane

Well start flaming because I give it a strong "DEPENDS" if the rider is mature I say why not.
My wife was getting into riding 6 yrs ago and I wanted her to get a zx6r then considered a supersport.
Only due to the fact that if she got a 250 (which she did) I knew she would get sick of it (which she did).
and got rid of it in less than a year.
Now me riding bikes for years know that most 600's even the new supersports aren't really that powerful until you wind the crap out of them.
which any sane mature rider will not due especially if they took the MSF course because they wanted to properly learn how to ride a bike.

Now if someone came up to me talking out there behind about how great of a rider they are going to be and how they are going to be stunting with there boyz I would tell them to wait a couple yrs before riding until they grow up

Also I always recommend that any noob doesn't go on group rides no matter what they are riding they usually get in over their head............been there done that was smart enough to pull away from the pack and go home before I got killed.

[waltdisney]

Originally Posted by ervins

This is the view people do not see...Many people sat the exact thing...Anyone can start on any bike...It is up to them. On one discussion in another forum, someone said the same thing...Anyone can start on a 10R....However, it is up to them to make it dangerous.

I agree in part....but the supersport bikes have no built in forgiveness.
If you are not smooth and ready for the incredibly fast responses of a Supersport, you are likely to drop it, or worse hit something.

On a less sporty bike the power is less violent.
The handling is more forgiving of ham handedness.
Your more upright making it easier to suddenly stop and put your feet down, shoulder check for lane changes etc. that are harder to learn as a newbie when bent way over.
And the short wheelbase, steep rake, and insane power hit, tend to make them wheelie easy, and nothing scarier for a newbie than to suddenly find themselves in traffic with the front tire 3 feet in the air.

[ervins]

Someone make a poll and ask should we all start teaching our kids to drive small underpowered cars which are manual. I am sure all of you would say Yes to that...I would say NO to that. You're all good people but not seeing both sides is pretty alarming. Not one of you have stated any negative about riding a 250...Want to start?

I think Stefano and I had this logical argument one time....

Same 20mph twisty road...600 in 2nd gear 250 on 4th? (what gear you guys in?) Equal skills...600 grabs brakes and slides...250 rider grabs brakes and slides...Both crash...WTF did CC have to do with that crash? Nothing it was the rider...
That is what I thought...Next.

Come back when you guys have a similar scenario to elaborate on how the 250 could have changed that situation.

[ervins]

s.f. bayarea craigslist > > motorcycles/scooters: search for "ninja 250"

Here is the CL listing for Ninja 250s in the SF Bay Area...Almost all of the 250s have damage...How dare all of you make it sound like getting a 250 will make riding that much easier...Riding is not easy and it is not for everyone...All bikes can kill. Do not give newer riders the false hope that getting a small bike will make them safer and prevent a crash or drop...It does not. Oh yeah they retain their value even crashed...Who wants a crashed bike?

[waltdisney]

Originally Posted by ervins

Someone make a poll and ask should we all start teaching our kids to drive small underpowered cars which are manual. I am sure all of you would say Yes to that...I would say NO to that. You're all good people but not seeing both sides is pretty alarming. Not one of you have stated any negative about riding a 250...Want to start?

I think Stefano and I had this logical argument one time....

Same 20mph twisty road...600 in 2nd gear 250 on 4th? (what gear you guys in?) Equal skills...600 grabs brakes and slides...250 rider grabs brakes and slides...Both crash...WTF did CC have to do with that crash? Nothing it was the rider...
That is what I thought...Next.

Come back when you guys have a similar scenario to elaborate on how the 250 could have changed that situation.

I have a LOT of experience riding.....and I have yet to ride a 250 as fast as say a 1000 or 1400.....why? It simply is not possible, and on a twisty road your ability to accelerate to dangerous speeds is nearly instantaneous on a supersport, not so much on a lesser bike.

Although I do see what your saying, and agree in part....I still would not teach a kid to drive in John Forces funny car, but would say teach them in a subaru WRX....but the high performance bikes accelerate twice as fast as a high performance car costing 3 times as much.....you decide, as only you can decide what is good for you....the question was would I recommend it, and my reply is NO.

[bennice]

Erv - I don't think you're getting it, dude. Nobody is saying everybody should start on a 250. The basic argument is that not everybody - not even MOST people are capable of learning on a 600cc supersport. You did, others on this forum did, but you're really the minority. You aren't the average person seeking validation on the subject. You don't even fit the demographic. I'll take it a step further - of those who did start on a 600 a lived to tell about it put themselves and others at risk. It's only by chance that many of them are still here. It's got nothing to do with smarts or skills, because when you have no concept of what the bike can do there is no such thing.

The whole point of these threads is this:
Start smaller to minimize the risk. Minimizing risk is what being a good rider is about. Smarts and skills come after you get some experience and context. Get out there, survive, learn and go on from there. If you play your cards right you won't be out much (if any) money, and you'll be more prepared to deal with more capable machine if that's what you choose.

This topic is to address the majority of people who ask the question, which does not include grown men/women with families and experience on the road.