electrical starting problem, please help

jivelivinhippy · 03-25-2005

I'm not the most technically knowledgable person with bikes so please bear with me.

I have an old (89) ex500, that will no longer start. About 2 weeks ago I tried to start it and I just got the clicking noise, so I recharged the battery and after a few minutes was able to get it to start, I ran it for about 10 mins then parked it. I went out of town and yesterday (2 weeks later) tried to start it again, only this time I didn't even get the clicking noise, just a static noise comming from the direction of the junction box. So I recharged the battery over night (trickle charge) and installed it today. Now I'm not getting any noise at all. The lights, turn signals, horns ect work, but nothing when I try to start it. I've check the fuses in the junction box and the starter relay and they are fine.
I just don't know what to do next, please help me I am really stuck.
Thank you.

QKENUF4U · 03-25-2005

sounds like the battery is DONE (broken connection inside) have it tested to see if it will take a load at the local bike/car shop (im betting it doesnt)

jivelivinhippy · 04-05-2005

I have updated information and I really hope someone can help me. I had the battery tested, it is fine. Talking with a kawasaki dealer, he said to try and short the two bolts on the starter relay. I did that and it starts up just fine, so I'm thinking that my starter relay (solenoid) went bad. So I replaced it, after installing the new part, same exact problem. I hit the start button and absolutly nothing, yet I short the two bolts (positive battery to starter) and it starts up - no problem. I don't want to throw more money at this than I need to, please does anyone know how I could troubleshoot this problem to find out if it is the Junction box, the starter button, the ingnition switch or something else. Thank you for your help I really appreciate it.

jswalt · 04-05-2005

I'm no mechanic by any means, but my 90 zx-10 had a very similar problem when I first bought it. Mine turned out to be a broken clutch switch, but it could have been any number of things (i.e. starter button contacts, clutch switch, kickstand switch, ignition switch, etc.). I know the starter button contacts tend to get oxidized, which mine were until I cleaned them. The way I narrowed my problem down was to take a plain automotive test light with the alligator clip grounded, and probed the lines associated to the items listed above to make sure they were working properly (i.e. had approximately 12V to light the test light, or not depending on how they were supposed to be). I ended up buying a shop manual to help find what devices on the bike might keep the starter from engaging. I realize I probably am not much help, and the best advice I can offer is to listen to experienced people like QKENUF4U. He has given me good advice on things. Good luck on getting it running again.

QKENUF4U · 04-06-2005

jswalt pegged it on this one. youll have to find out where the power stops.
good luck

pitbull76 · 04-06-2005

Yup. Get a voltmeter and a service manual, then start testing. I had a similar problem on my old Katana and it was the clutch interlock switch. Kickstand saftey switch and nuetral safety switch can do it too.

DrAnonymous · 12-10-2006

I wanted to bump this thread to life again, as I have the same/similiar problem. I only get a buzzing out of my junction box when I try to start my EX500. Here's the things I've tried -

- Checked the clutch switch and its fine

- The neutral light comes on and seems fine.

- The kill switch checks out.

- Dismantled the junction box. Relays on board appear fine. They click nicely with a nine volt battery across the coil. Coil resistance is 316ohms, which the relay manufactuer says is right.

- The starter relay is 4ohms across its coil and clicks with 12volts.

- I hooked the relay up so that the 3 pin connector on it only had the white wire connected. So in essence the coil connections weren't hooked up. When I hit the starter button, the junction box clicked like I expected.

- When I hook the starter relay up again, the junction box relay buzzes.

I have the OEM manual and the starter circuit is pretty simply. I can't figure out what else could be the problem.

Please someone help my sanity!!!!

MR.S7 · 12-10-2006

Hi pal, i dont know if im late to this post.. but.. is nothing to worry about.. its sound like Defenetly a Battery problem, stpo charging it .. the battery is useless now.. juts have to buy a new one..
and thats the end of it.

ps: check the rectifier is charging correctly the battery also.

MR.S7 · 12-10-2006

dam*n i wish i could understand every word u guys say so i can help..

What do u call relay? and The junction box? is the Ignition?? or the fuses?..

If u explain me the Exact sypmtoms of the bike when and what occur i might be able to help u..

DrAnonymous · 12-10-2006

Thanks for the reply. Its not the battery though. I just finished hooking the bike up to my car battery and it still doesn't work.

The junction box is the name Kawasaki gave the fuse box under the seat. Mine has 4 10Amp fuses in it. The junction box has two relays inside and some diodes.

Any other ideas?

MR.S7 · 12-10-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrAnonymous

Thanks for the reply. Its not the battery though. I just finished hooking the bike up to my car battery and it still doesn't work.

The junction box is the name Kawasaki gave the fuse box under the seat. Mine has 4 10Amp fuses in it. The junction box has two relays inside and some diodes.

Any other ideas?

I was talking about the battery to the guy who posted this thread... about your problem i said i wosh i culd undesrtan your exact symptoms if u tell me the exact symptoms i might help ..

zedx11 · 12-10-2006

where did you get values to check the relays in the junction box? I can't even anyone that can tell me anything about them. I ended up just jumpering the junction box to make one start.

zedx11 · 12-10-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by MR.S7

I was talking about the battery to the guy who posted this thread... about your problem i said i wosh i culd undesrtan your exact symptoms if u tell me the exact symptoms i might help ..

are you kidding? this guy seems to know a little about what he is doing. he gave more information than most do.

and the orignal post was made in March of 2005

MR.S7 · 12-10-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by zedx11

are you kidding? this guy seems to know a little about what he is doing. he gave more information than most do.

i might u remember that i dont speak English very well.. so i only need the Precise symptoms..

of What happens, and When.. becasu certain words.. i dont understan thata s all.

zedx11 · 12-10-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by MR.S7

i might u remember that i dont speak English very well.. so i only need the Precise symptoms..

of What happens, and When.. becasu certain words.. i dont understan thata s all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrAnonymous

I wanted to bump this thread to life again, as I have the same/similiar problem. I only get a buzzing out of my junction box when I try to start my EX500. Here's the things I've tried -

thought he made it pretty clear in the first paragraph.

MR.S7 · 12-10-2006

im not sure, but try this.. try to turno onn ur bike connecting directli the starter (i dont know how u called) its the one ROund in the ruber basket with the positive and negative on it.. make a direct connection there.. to see if the problem is from fuse box or before..

DrAnonymous · 12-10-2006

I found the values on the relays by dismantling the Junction Box. They are made by NEC and are the MR301 series, which is an automotive relay. If you download the specs on that series of relay, it has a chart which shows the coil resistance.

The diodes I checked with my multimeter, set to diode. Not all meters have a diode checker, so most manuals say to use the Ohm meter function and you should have an open when you connect the leads one way. When you swap the leads and measure the value should be near zero.

HTH.

DrAnonymous · 12-10-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by MR.S7

im not sure, but try this.. try to turno onn ur bike connecting directli the starter (i dont know how u called) its the one ROund in the ruber basket with the positive and negative on it.. make a direct connection there.. to see if the problem is from fuse box or before..

The round relay in the rubber holder is the starter relay. It has a green 30Amp fuse on it.

If I connect the + positive battery to the yellow/green wire on the starter relay, the motor will start. The yellow/green wire goes to the coil inside the relay. The black/yellow is the coil ground, back to the - negative on the battery.

I haven't tried to connect the starter lugs directly, but they must be good, otherwise the other steps wouldn't work.

MR.S7 · 12-10-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrAnonymous

The round relay in the rubber holder is the starter relay. It has a green 30Amp fuse on it.

If I connect the + positive battery to the yellow/green wire on the starter relay, the motor will start. The yellow/green wire goes to the coil inside the relay. The black/yellow is the coil ground, back to the - negative on the battery.

I haven't tried to connect the starter lugs directly, but they must be good, otherwise the other steps wouldn't work.

tHATS WHAT IM SAYIng try turning on directly so u can know where the problem is..

zedx11 · 12-10-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrAnonymous

I found the values on the relays by dismantling the Junction Box. They are made by NEC and are the MR301 series, which is an automotive relay. If you download the specs on that series of relay, it has a chart which shows the coil resistance.

The diodes I checked with my multimeter, set to diode. Not all meters have a diode checker, so most manuals say to use the Ohm meter function and you should have an open when you connect the leads one way. When you swap the leads and measure the value should be near zero.

HTH.

I've had mine apart too, tried to find replacements and no one could tell me anything because they couldn't find the number to crossreference to any part number.

this is what I finally did to make mine start every time.

03-25-2005	#1 (permalink)
jivelivinhippy Newbie Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 2	electrical starting problem, please help I'm not the most technically knowledgable person with bikes so please bear with me. I have an old (89) ex500, that will no longer start. About 2 weeks ago I tried to start it and I just got the clicking noise, so I recharged the battery and after a few minutes was able to get it to start, I ran it for about 10 mins then parked it. I went out of town and yesterday (2 weeks later) tried to start it again, only this time I didn't even get the clicking noise, just a static noise comming from the direction of the junction box. So I recharged the battery over night (trickle charge) and installed it today. Now I'm not getting any noise at all. The lights, turn signals, horns ect work, but nothing when I try to start it. I've check the fuses in the junction box and the starter relay and they are fine. I just don't know what to do next, please help me I am really stuck. Thank you.

04-06-2005	#6 (permalink)
pitbull76 Cruising In Fourth Gear BTK Intermediate Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Montgomery, IL (SW Chicago suburbs) Posts: 213	Yup. Get a voltmeter and a service manual, then start testing. I had a similar problem on my old Katana and it was the clutch interlock switch. Kickstand saftey switch and nuetral safety switch can do it too. __________________ 1994 ZX6E -Mike

12-10-2006	#12 (permalink)
zedx11 yellow doesn't corner wel Extreme Forum Supporter Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: KC, KS Posts: 21,181	where did you get values to check the relays in the junction box? I can't even anyone that can tell me anything about them. I ended up just jumpering the junction box to make one start. __________________ Darrell Ignorance is a disease my friend. You should rid yourself of it.

03-25-2005	#2 (permalink)
QKENUF4U AZ's Official Mechanic BTK Expert Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: phoenix arizona Posts: 3,480	sounds like the battery is DONE (broken connection inside) have it tested to see if it will take a load at the local bike/car shop (im betting it doesnt)

04-05-2005	#3 (permalink)
jivelivinhippy Newbie Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 2	I have updated information and I really hope someone can help me. I had the battery tested, it is fine. Talking with a kawasaki dealer, he said to try and short the two bolts on the starter relay. I did that and it starts up just fine, so I'm thinking that my starter relay (solenoid) went bad. So I replaced it, after installing the new part, same exact problem. I hit the start button and absolutly nothing, yet I short the two bolts (positive battery to starter) and it starts up - no problem. I don't want to throw more money at this than I need to, please does anyone know how I could troubleshoot this problem to find out if it is the Junction box, the starter button, the ingnition switch or something else. Thank you for your help I really appreciate it.

04-05-2005	#4 (permalink)
jswalt Finally Got Into First Gear BTK Beginner Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 62	I'm no mechanic by any means, but my 90 zx-10 had a very similar problem when I first bought it. Mine turned out to be a broken clutch switch, but it could have been any number of things (i.e. starter button contacts, clutch switch, kickstand switch, ignition switch, etc.). I know the starter button contacts tend to get oxidized, which mine were until I cleaned them. The way I narrowed my problem down was to take a plain automotive test light with the alligator clip grounded, and probed the lines associated to the items listed above to make sure they were working properly (i.e. had approximately 12V to light the test light, or not depending on how they were supposed to be). I ended up buying a shop manual to help find what devices on the bike might keep the starter from engaging. I realize I probably am not much help, and the best advice I can offer is to listen to experienced people like QKENUF4U. He has given me good advice on things. Good luck on getting it running again.

04-06-2005	#5 (permalink)
QKENUF4U AZ's Official Mechanic BTK Expert Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: phoenix arizona Posts: 3,480	jswalt pegged it on this one. youll have to find out where the power stops. good luck

12-10-2006	#7 (permalink)
DrAnonymous Newbie Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 4	I wanted to bump this thread to life again, as I have the same/similiar problem. I only get a buzzing out of my junction box when I try to start my EX500. Here's the things I've tried - - Checked the clutch switch and its fine - The neutral light comes on and seems fine. - The kill switch checks out. - Dismantled the junction box. Relays on board appear fine. They click nicely with a nine volt battery across the coil. Coil resistance is 316ohms, which the relay manufactuer says is right. - The starter relay is 4ohms across its coil and clicks with 12volts. - I hooked the relay up so that the 3 pin connector on it only had the white wire connected. So in essence the coil connections weren't hooked up. When I hit the starter button, the junction box clicked like I expected. - When I hook the starter relay up again, the junction box relay buzzes. I have the OEM manual and the starter circuit is pretty simply. I can't figure out what else could be the problem. Please someone help my sanity!!!!

12-10-2006	#8 (permalink)
MR.S7 Way Too Much Free Time BTK Expert Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Ecuador Posts: 1,136	Hi pal, i dont know if im late to this post.. but.. is nothing to worry about.. its sound like Defenetly a Battery problem, stpo charging it .. the battery is useless now.. juts have to buy a new one.. and thats the end of it. ps: check the rectifier is charging correctly the battery also.

12-10-2006	#9 (permalink)
MR.S7 Way Too Much Free Time BTK Expert Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Ecuador Posts: 1,136	dam*n i wish i could understand every word u guys say so i can help.. What do u call relay? and The junction box? is the Ignition?? or the fuses?.. If u explain me the Exact sypmtoms of the bike when and what occur i might be able to help u..

12-10-2006	#10 (permalink)
DrAnonymous Newbie Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 4	Thanks for the reply. Its not the battery though. I just finished hooking the bike up to my car battery and it still doesn't work. The junction box is the name Kawasaki gave the fuse box under the seat. Mine has 4 10Amp fuses in it. The junction box has two relays inside and some diodes. Any other ideas?

12-10-2006	#16 (permalink)
MR.S7 Way Too Much Free Time BTK Expert Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Ecuador Posts: 1,136	im not sure, but try this.. try to turno onn ur bike connecting directli the starter (i dont know how u called) its the one ROund in the ruber basket with the positive and negative on it.. make a direct connection there.. to see if the problem is from fuse box or before..

12-10-2006	#17 (permalink)
DrAnonymous Newbie Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 4	I found the values on the relays by dismantling the Junction Box. They are made by NEC and are the MR301 series, which is an automotive relay. If you download the specs on that series of relay, it has a chart which shows the coil resistance. The diodes I checked with my multimeter, set to diode. Not all meters have a diode checker, so most manuals say to use the Ohm meter function and you should have an open when you connect the leads one way. When you swap the leads and measure the value should be near zero. HTH.

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