Brand Quality

[sxgt]

I have always thought brand quality is an illusion , you know; how could you ever say Honda is " better" then Yamaha. Both companies have a fleet of the best engineers in the nation designing products with the best quality available. yes ever company has their bottom end product for economy packages but I am talking top of the line verses top of the line.

Is it safe to assume a premium quality Kawasaki will last the same as a Honda under similar riding conditions over the course of 10 years? Basically I has a jerk telling me only Harly Davidsons are "real" bikes and anyone that hates them doesn't own one. Are foreign parts made will less reliable/wearable material? I know HD is american made and Kawasaki is Tai made but shouldn't all brands be trying to create the best product possible to uphold their reputation?

-discuss

[JasonFMHS]

HD's are kinda crappy... they break down more than anything else... look at a Harley shop... and see how many bikes are in the service department.

[bennice]

I think the guy needs to take a look at some of his parts and notice the MADE IN CHINA stamp.

[fitbmxseries1]

One company like hyosung does do cheaper components. Definatly a quality issue. But they are able to sell bikes off for less then what a good quality bike would cost. I guess its cheapness over quality in that situation

[Musgofasa]

I think the guy needs to take a look at some of his parts and notice the MADE IN CHINA stamp.

+1

Yeah, all the big company's top end bikes are going to have similar life spans. Certain manufacturers seem to have weak links at different points which might be a consideration for a rider. I don't know what that link is in Kawi's yet, but from experience, yamaha's seem to be the transmissions. If you are hard on tranny's you might want to look at a Kawi or Suzuki. If you are a throttle jockey, honda and yamaha might be the better bike, but even so I am betting less than 1000 miles difference between repairs on any of the given bikes.

Harley has improved a LOT since they started having a lot of their electronics and moving peices made overseas. Sad to say, but true. Still the average service cost of any metric is less than half that of a HD.

Comparing my zx7, my buddy's 900RR, a friends Ducati 998, and my best friends 2 R6s, I would have to say we all come in close to even on frequency of service. The Duc did cost more to service, but with some 75,000 miles on it, it was probably due. I got nearly 80K out of my ZX7 and my buddy's 900s were all sold around 40K. The one R6 got about 40K on it before sale and his new R6 is ....well,...... new. I know other people with bikes approaching 100K miles too and they have never done anything more than standard maintanence.

One guy has a ST1100 Honda with 230,000 miles. Bike is great, but he is looking at a new motor because it seems finally to be losing compression.

Lots of track record for different manufacturers. How many HD's have you seen with 200K?

Robert

[chad1043]

I think it all comes down to the owner and how she or he maintains his or hers bike. Machines break,we fix them, but if they are abused then they will not last as long. Please don't get into a brand war here. It just makes people mad.

Chad

[gr8ride]

Brand quality is due to a companies Quality control process. Some companies do this better than others. For example in Japan they have a very prestigious Deming Award. This is for the company with the best quality control. This is what japanese companies aspire to attain every year. The strive for manufacturing perfection is a cultural importance to the japanese. Due to the focus in this area they have become automotive leaders in many areas.

Toyota moved a few plants to the U.S. I think in the michigan or ohio area. These plants showed significant decreases in quality control and lost Toyota its top spot in customer satisfaction and quality control. As a result they discontinued their operations in the U.S. due to the lack of attention to quality product. The cultural differences found in manufacturing directly led to a decrease in quality.

Most manufacturers have access to the same parts and design as you said but what really sets them apart is the way in which these parts are put together. This is why I would prefer a Japanese, Italian, or German product due to there outstanding quality control processes that insure the products life-span.

[soc_monki]

for the record Kawasaki is japanese, not Tai.

as for brand quality...i think all the Big 4 Japanese brands are good quality. sometime they have their hiccups, but all manufacturers do. the 2006 R6 had a problem blowing up engines, the 07 ZX-6 (certain months) had a valve cover leak problem. im sure Honda and Suzuki have had their problems as well. you cant catch everything all the time!

but just because you have great engineers doesnt mean squat. they design stuff, but they dont put it into production, dont put the bikes together, etc etc. they all get a lot of their parts from suppliers, who may have a bad day, a bad batch, and it ends up breaking later on down the road.

theres a LOT that goes into the production of a car, bike, anything really. its really amazing how there are so few problems as it is!

[sebastian1000]

I have always thought brand quality is an illusion , you know; how could you ever say Honda is " better" then Yamaha. Both companies have a fleet of the best engineers in the nation designing products with the best quality available. yes ever company has their bottom end product for economy packages but I am talking top of the line verses top of the line.

Is it safe to assume a premium quality Kawasaki will last the same as a Honda under similar riding conditions over the course of 10 years? Basically I has a jerk telling me only Harly Davidsons are "real" bikes and anyone that hates them doesn't own one. Are foreign parts made will less reliable/wearable material? I know HD is american made and Kawasaki is Tai made but shouldn't all brands be trying to create the best product possible to uphold their reputation?

-discuss

Kawasaki is Tai? As in Taiwan made? They are Japanese.
Well, of course if you hate a Harley you don't own one! That's like saying if you don't like water you won't swim....DUH!

But as far as fit and finish, Most of the companies thus far are pretty good....with the Chinese knock-off exceptions. Hyosung comes to mind too but they are getting better so I hear. You get what you pay for right?
-S

[sxgt]

their is a Kawasaki factory in Tai-land. That is where my ninja was made.

[sebastian1000]

Didn't know about the Thailand factory...but either way it is still a Japanese bike.

[Musgofasa]

I think the 250s are made in Thailand. I read that somewhere.

I have to agree with another statement above. Every manufacturer has to rely on suppliers, components, employees, and the occassional hiccup that goes along with production of anything. I worked in a factory where the minimum acceptable scrap rate after non-destructive and destructive testing was .01%. Quality control was the absolute. (Japanese owned company btw) and it was unbelievable how strict they were about it. Even with that level of scrutiny, things still happened. The company still had to have a return policy etc.

In regards to Toyota, they still have a factory KY. That's where the Solaras are made I believe. I don't know about the quality control etc, but i know Toyota has been regarded as one of (if not THE) best in fit and finish of all the automotive manufacturers in the world for many years. I wonder if they still have that reputation? interesting discussion on that actually.

Take care,
Robert

[xeon]

That's kind of funny... but I think he's mixed up and/or just ignorant. Harleys aren't all "Made in the USA" anymore. Honestly one thing I despise about them is the symbolism around the bike in spite of me being very patriotic. That arrogant attitude that somehow riding that bike makes them more American rubs me the wrong way. Certainly not all Harley riders, but some for sure. My grandfather shelled a Yamaha factory in WWII (I think) and he's fine with my Yamaha... in fact he thinks my bike is marvelous! I stopped by his place on a recent road trip and he could have looked at my bike for hours... I digress.

Quality is getting better at Harley, but there still is no comparison IMO. People are welcome to do as they please, but for me I can't see buying an overpriced bike that is truthfully inferior to metric "options" for a lot less money. That's my opinion.

I often go to local Harley open houses and park my Jap bike in the sea of Harleys and haven't had a major issue to date. One thing I will say is their dealerships give a great experience... grilling, bike demos, live bands, stuff for kids, there's nothing like this at any of the local import dealerships.

Anyway I was talking to a guy at one of the open houses and he figured I was the guy riding the crotch rocket and said you know a lot of these guys buy these Harley tourers but only later do they figure out they should have bought a Gold Wing. In fact he said that was what he had done himself. The big four build the best bikes in the world IMO.

[Musgofasa]

That's kind of funny... but I think he's mixed up and/or just ignorant. Harleys aren't all "Made in the USA" anymore. Honestly one thing I despise about them is the symbolism around the bike in spite of me being very patriotic. That arrogant attitude that somehow riding that bike makes them more American rubs me the wrong way. Certainly not all Harley riders, but some for sure.

This is the problem I have. My next door neighbor scoffs at Hondas and Toyotas and says he won't take American jobs by buying Japanese vehicles. He gets all offensive about it and says everyone should "buy american" and keep our jobs etc. I showed him the "assembled in Mexico" sticker on his Ford and he didn't have anything to day. Then I showed him the "assembled in Canada" sticker on my Chevy. Still no comment. When I showed him the "made in Taiwan" stamp on the back of the speedo on his brother's HD, he decided I might have a point lol. The fact that he works for BMW here in SC now has really made him start looking at who is employing americans. Toyota, Honda and BMW employ more americans than Ford and Chevy in this part of the country by like 10 times. lol

I guess I am not that patriotic. Kind of like religion though, it can be a subject not to bring up unless you are looking for a fight, lol.

Just wanted to agree with ya!

Take care,
Robert

[ervins]

Hondas are a pain in the arse to work on...Ask anyone who has owned a newer one...To change the oil on my CBR 600RR took more effort than was needed...Trying to put flushmounts was just as daunting...IMO fit and finish on Hondas are overrated. Kawasaki is easy to work with just a couple of panels...IMO Kawasaki is underrated in regards to fit and finish. Yamaha is great...Very easy to work with. Fit and finish is very good. Suzuki gets a bum rap and they to have good fit and finish and are easy to work with. Never had a problem with any bike I have owned from my 636, 600RR, 10R, TTR-125LE, and YZ85. It is all up to you in regards to upkeep...

[Danase]

HD's are kinda crappy... they break down more than anything else... look at a Harley shop... and see how many bikes are in the service department.

I don't think that is true like it might of once been. Most of the Harleys in the shop now a days are in for accessory installations.

[sebastian1000]

The article I read a bit ago gave the fit and finish nod to the Kawasaki over the Honda....! At least others are noticing too.

[soc_monki]

This is the problem I have. My next door neighbor scoffs at Hondas and Toyotas and says he won't take American jobs by buying Japanese vehicles. He gets all offensive about it and says everyone should "buy american" and keep our jobs etc. I showed him the "assembled in Mexico" sticker on his Ford and he didn't have anything to day. Then I showed him the "assembled in Canada" sticker on my Chevy. Still no comment. When I showed him the "made in Taiwan" stamp on the back of the speedo on his brother's HD, he decided I might have a point lol. The fact that he works for BMW here in SC now has really made him start looking at who is employing americans. Toyota, Honda and BMW employ more americans than Ford and Chevy in this part of the country by like 10 times. lol

I guess I am not that patriotic. Kind of like religion though, it can be a subject not to bring up unless you are looking for a fight, lol.

Just wanted to agree with ya!

Take care,
Robert

i drive a Nissan Altima...it was made in Smyrna, TN, as are all Altimas and a few of the other Nissan cars. the Canton, MS plant is HUGE (i drove by it once) and makes a few different models. i cant imagine how many people they employ just at those 2 plants. however they have been offering packages for employees who quit ($100,000+ some other benefits) because of the decline in the sales of Titans and other large-engined vehicles. still...Ford, Chevy and Dodge have their cars built in Mexico and Canada. how is that more American than Nissan, Honda, and Toyota building in the US?

honestly i think the whole "buy American" argument is long gone. there was once a time when buying a Ford meant you were buying an all-American car. or an HD was an all-American bike. not anymore. its a global marketplace where manufacturers try to cut costs by outsourcing production of many components to over-seas or over-border operations. no one make is truly "all-American" anymore.

and the Japanese guys are the same...they make a lot of stuff in Japan, but many models are made in the US because of different regulations and cutting costs on shipping. however it seems that the Japanese are VERY strict in their quality control, which is easy to understand knowing their culture.

all in all...i wouldnt be against owning any Japanese made bike. Kawasaki is my preference, with Yamaha a close 2nd. Honda would be last i hate to say...even though i had an 87 Accord as my first car theyve just gone bonkers in recent times. the new Accord is UGLY and too big, the Civic is getting ugly as well. the bikes...other than the MX models ive never been a big fan. but people still buy all Honda stuff because of the reputation for quality. problem is a big insurance bill, along with big repair bills comes along with that name. but the resale value is high! LOL