Anyone else running a magnetic drain plug?

[jeffs99vulcan]

For the eight bucks, I ordered the drain plug too. Now it's a curiosity thing... I want to see if any particles get caught on the drain plug, given the strength and cost of the magnet on the filter.

But like we both said, both is probably the best answer! Makes you wonder when, since the gears, clutch and crankcase DO all use the same oil, it's not a standard feature...

[RichLockyer]

The drain plug will catch the crap first.

Honestly, I wonder how much of what is on the drain plug wouldn't be caught by the filter element anyways. Overall, the stock system is pretty good. You've got the screen to catch any particles large enough to damage the oil pump, then the oil goes through the pump, then through the filter, and on into the engine.
Wear metals will return to the sump where they would be attracted to the magnet in the plug before returning to the filter.

The difference is, not ALL of the oil in the sump is close enough to the plug for the magnet to draw in the iron shavings. 100% of the oil going into the engine passes through the filter (and half of it would pass the FilterMag).
A magnet just stuck on the end of a filter? I don't think it would do much. The oil passes into the filter through the 6 or 8 holes in the endcap, goes through the element, and comes out the large hole in the center. There is very little oil flow at the end of the filter.

[jeffs99vulcan]

Good thoughts... You're right on all (but one little one), but I'll tell you why I got to where I am, maybe it will make more sense why I got it.

Last oil change (last weekend) I noticed tiny metal particles in the oil (verified with a magnet). While I'm certain that SOME are normal, I'm equally certain that removing THE MOST POSSIBLE from the oil stream can't be a bad thing. I was aware of magnetic oil plugs, and was going to get one of those, and searched threads just to see what people had to say. When I did that, I came across the FilterMag.

I went to the FilterMag web site and was impressed, and for the $35 thought it would be worth a shot... small investment for an otherwise positive potential payback. Then I decided to order the plug for $8 as well, to see what if anything it would catch given how miraculously the Mag is supposed to work... plus the additional benefit of a second magnet pulling shavings out of the stream.

So putting that together with what you are telling me about the direction of the flow, it IS very possible the plug will catch some before it goes to the filter, and I already have the intention of cutting open the next filter just to see how much if anything was caught there. No, I won't do that every time, but no doubt the curiosity will prompt me to do it at least once.

And in the end, I know I'm pulling as MUCH AS POSSIBLE out of the stream. You can never go wrong with keeping your oil as clean as you can... but over and above that, I appreciate everything that I get out of this forum so much that I don't mind being the guinea pig so I can let other people know what this is all about, whether it works, and whether I think it's worth it.

The one thing you were a little off on, is that it is a half circle in shape, about two inches wide, and the entire length and width of it is rare-earth magnet. It mounts around the side, on the bottom of the filter. Ideally, if gravity plays any role at all, the magnet is right there, and takes up almost the entire lower half of the filter.

The official review will follow in another 3,500KM!!! At worst, another month...

75 lbs of pull force...

[RichLockyer]

Oh no... I'm in agreement with you on the FilterMag. I think it's a great idea.
What I was referring to about the "magnet stuck on the end" is some people will hang a speaker magnet on the end of the filter case. I don't think it would do much good on the end.

[jeffs99vulcan]

Originally Posted by RichLockyer

Oh no... I'm in agreement with you on the FilterMag. I think it's a great idea.
What I was referring to about the "magnet stuck on the end" is some people will hang a speaker magnet on the end of the filter case. I don't think it would do much good on the end.

LOL You're kidding me!!! Never heard of that one! Gotta agree with you there, can't see that being of much benefit!

[FBRR]

"LOL You're kidding me!!! Never heard of that one! Gotta agree with you there, can't see that being of much benefit!"
Actually a neo magnet stuck anywhere on the filter will catch metal. The semi-circle design of the $35 dollar filter is better ( more area ) but even a small magnet ( neo ) is strong enough to remove metal.

Several things to consider.
Depending on the filter and it's " ability" to filter a certain size particle( 10 micron vs 30 micron ) and the "PERCENTAGE" of said size! That is all filters are rated, as an example 75% of a 30 micron particle and 50% of a 10 micron particle. Some filters are up in the range of 98% for 30 micron and 90% for the 10 micron.
It is very important for engine durablity to KNOW what any given filter is rated. ( Not all filters are rated equal )

Secondly, and what many folks do not pay attention to, is those "holes" that the oil uses to flow into the filter!! When the engine is shut off, those holes have the potential to "backflow" into the sump!! Again not all filters have the same design in the SEAL of those intake holes. Several filters are much better than others in regards to both material and design of the seal.
The point of this sealing effect is at shutdown, any material, both metal and/or non-ferious debris will backflush into the sump. It then has the potential to be injested into rings and bearing at start up BEFORE returning to the filter.

My point is also twoflod. A drain magnet ( being the lowest point int the sump. An assumption not true of every design, but close enough ) can and does have the first shot at garthering in the ferious metal before the engine is started! The second part of this fact is, YOU SHOULD pay far more attention to WHICH filter you use, even BEFORE worring about the magnets.
Many filters that "ADVERTISE" heavily are really junk. It is very easy to search several different forums to find the best. Both the Ducati, Sport Touring, and ZG/GTR forums have had folks that are very knowledgable cut apart and also gather manufacturers specs on different filters.

If you want the "cliff notes" version. The Purolator PURE ONE ( PURE ONE is a specific filter not a gerenric Purolator filter ) the the Mobil 1 filter ( and the Mobil 1 filter is made by a manufacturer that makes it for several other "brands", none of which I can remember right now!!I'm an old coote)
Both have the best material and design to prevent flowback on engine shut down. Both also have the best filter material and very importantly the best FILTER bonding material at the endcap of the filter. The only difference between the Mobil 1 and Pure ONE is the AMOUNT of filter material volume present. While that may seem like a larger issue, unless you are saturating the filter element, the amount of material is a lesser design criteria. The reason I say that is, if you are changing your filter every 3 to 5,000 miles you will never be close to the saturation point of the volume.

I am in engine design but I am not an oil or filter emgineer ( I just play one on TV). But as an engine engineer I am acutely aware of how important removing all material from the oil film can be to durablity.

Again, I now this is a long rant, but changing your oil early and often will extend engine life. My typical oil change interval is at 90miles after the initial break-in ( rolling on and off the throttle and varying load for the first 90 miles), then again at 600 miles ( to clean the rest of the build material and break in wear material) and again at 1200/1500 miles to get the rest of the break-in wear materail out. I then change at 3000 miles and every 3000 thereafter. Those first oil changes meana great deal to engine life.
Sorry for the long rant and threadJACK.

[jeffs99vulcan]

Originally Posted by FBRR

Sorry for the long rant and threadJACK.

No apology necessay, and thanks for the info! That's what the forum is all about, and certainly a great learing venue...

In the absence of better knowlege, I tend to default to what is generaly considered to be a high-quality filter... and that doesn't necessarily mean it IS the best, but with the information I currently have I try to make a more informed decision and that last thing I do is "cheap out". I'd be crazy to think magnets were going to solve anything, when mated with a cheap filter.

I've always known Fram to be a good brand, but know little about the construction and comparison of this brand to others... but know it's not the chaepest and hope that means something.

And I can't possibly agree with you more, as stated, that there is no wasted effort when you're doing all you can to remove as much metal as possible from the oil. The magnets came from a specific concern, and I'll probably do a little more reading to see what's available to me up here in a quality filter... I do not remember the Puro and Mobil on the shelves, as my dealer only offers me the Kawi or Fram brand.

But again, thanks for the "rant", much appreciated!

[FBRR]

Here is an excellent link to oil filters:

Motorcycle Oil Filters & Air Filters

READ the info on FRAM!!!! There is a reason they lead in advertising budget!!!!

[jeffs99vulcan]

Originally Posted by FBRR

Here is an excellent link to oil filters:

Motorcycle Oil Filters & Air Filters

READ the info on FRAM!!!! There is a reason they lead in advertising budget!!!!

Looks like good reading, and I WILL read it...

But for now, quick question: Given the choice, would you use the OEM Kawi filter, of the Fram?

[FBRR]

OEM Kawasaki over the FRAM.

You need to read the text on FRAM!!

One of the best and easiest to find for the C14 is the Mobil 1. It is number
M1-110. The Purolator PURE one is the best, but they are hard to find.
I ordered the purolator from e-bay.

Purolator Pure one part number is PL-14610.

You need to read the text on FRAM!!

This is an excerp from a letter from a FRAM employee. ( It is at the bottom of the link above.)
It clearly states that FRAM uses cardboard end caps on the internal filter. While he defends that postition, I don't want CARDBOARD anywhere near my engine. Especially in my oil filter element.


EXCERP;
A common misunderstanding among our customers concerns the end disks in the oil filter. These disks hold the glue which keeps the pleated media formed into a rigid circular tube. The glue-to-media interface is also one of the sealing surfaces keeping dirty and filtered oil from mixing. One common myth is that only metal end disks can adequately seal and have enough strength in the hot oil environment. For this reason, Fram filters are criticized for having cardboard end disks. The issue is, the material doing the sealing is the adhesive, regardless of the material of the end disk. What matters is the strength of the adhesive, its proper curing, the thoroughness with which it can be applied to the disk, and its adhesion to the disk. By using cardboard end disks, Fram filter engineers are able to specify adhesives with excellent strength and sealing properties, and strong adhesion to the disk (intuitively, it is easy to make a strong glue bond with cardboard). Moreover, just as paper media itself is able to withstand the hot oil environment, so too is the end disk designed of fibers engineered to be strong and inert in hot oil. The thickness and strength of the adhesive also stiffens the end disk considerably.

[92NinjaZX6]

Originally Posted by RichLockyer

The nice thing about the Filtermag is that you don't need to clean it every now and then, so there's NEVER a need to remove the oil drain plug on a Vulcan 900/1500/1600. The crap goes into the landfill with the filter

Now Rich, i know you are more responsible then that, oil filters arent to be "thrown away" it has to be recycled like the oil. But i know you already knew that.

[92NinjaZX6]

Originally Posted by FBRR

"LOL You're kidding me!!! Never heard of that one! Gotta agree with you there, can't see that being of much benefit!"
Actually a neo magnet stuck anywhere on the filter will catch metal. The semi-circle design of the $35 dollar filter is better ( more area ) but even a small magnet ( neo ) is strong enough to remove metal.

Several things to consider.
Depending on the filter and it's " ability" to filter a certain size particle( 10 micron vs 30 micron ) and the "PERCENTAGE" of said size! That is all filters are rated, as an example 75% of a 30 micron particle and 50% of a 10 micron particle. Some filters are up in the range of 98% for 30 micron and 90% for the 10 micron.
It is very important for engine durablity to KNOW what any given filter is rated. ( Not all filters are rated equal )

Secondly, and what many folks do not pay attention to, is those "holes" that the oil uses to flow into the filter!! When the engine is shut off, those holes have the potential to "backflow" into the sump!! Again not all filters have the same design in the SEAL of those intake holes. Several filters are much better than others in regards to both material and design of the seal.
The point of this sealing effect is at shutdown, any material, both metal and/or non-ferious debris will backflush into the sump. It then has the potential to be injested into rings and bearing at start up BEFORE returning to the filter.

My point is also twoflod. A drain magnet ( being the lowest point int the sump. An assumption not true of every design, but close enough ) can and does have the first shot at garthering in the ferious metal before the engine is started! The second part of this fact is, YOU SHOULD pay far more attention to WHICH filter you use, even BEFORE worring about the magnets.
Many filters that "ADVERTISE" heavily are really junk. It is very easy to search several different forums to find the best. Both the Ducati, Sport Touring, and ZG/GTR forums have had folks that are very knowledgable cut apart and also gather manufacturers specs on different filters.

If you want the "cliff notes" version. The Purolator PURE ONE ( PURE ONE is a specific filter not a gerenric Purolator filter ) the the Mobil 1 filter ( and the Mobil 1 filter is made by a manufacturer that makes it for several other "brands", none of which I can remember right now!!I'm an old coote)
Both have the best material and design to prevent flowback on engine shut down. Both also have the best filter material and very importantly the best FILTER bonding material at the endcap of the filter. The only difference between the Mobil 1 and Pure ONE is the AMOUNT of filter material volume present. While that may seem like a larger issue, unless you are saturating the filter element, the amount of material is a lesser design criteria. The reason I say that is, if you are changing your filter every 3 to 5,000 miles you will never be close to the saturation point of the volume.

I am in engine design but I am not an oil or filter emgineer ( I just play one on TV). But as an engine engineer I am acutely aware of how important removing all material from the oil film can be to durablity.

Again, I now this is a long rant, but changing your oil early and often will extend engine life. My typical oil change interval is at 90miles after the initial break-in ( rolling on and off the throttle and varying load for the first 90 miles), then again at 600 miles ( to clean the rest of the build material and break in wear material) and again at 1200/1500 miles to get the rest of the break-in wear materail out. I then change at 3000 miles and every 3000 thereafter. Those first oil changes meana great deal to engine life.
Sorry for the long rant and threadJACK.

Mobil1 and other filters like Bosch ones are made by Champion labs, same people who make the $3 Wal-mart Supertech. They arent bad but they arent the best either. As far as filters go, Puro Pure one is def good unit, but one thing i always considered is oil flow capacity. the extremely packed pleats and supreme filteration would logically (depending on media type of course) would flow less oil (GPM). Id want a happy medium where filteration and oil flow meets, generally this is why i buy the Kawasaki factory filters on my bike (paying a high $10 each for them) based on meeting the engines specific oil flow and filteration guidelines. Frankly i have been wondering on using some of the high quality Nissan filter offerings on my bike since they are readily available at my job at Nissan. If its good enough to meet the needs on a 1000hp Skyline GTR's its good enough for my bike

hmm....

[92NinjaZX6]

Originally Posted by jeffs99vulcan

Looks like good reading, and I WILL read it...

But for now, quick question: Given the choice, would you use the OEM Kawi filter, of the Fram?

ewww, Fram is like the biggest pieces of garbage they call a filter around. take one apart and youll see its crappy construction and the cheap a$$ paper media they use. OEm Kawi for sure if it was between those.

[Saleenguy]

Originally Posted by 92NinjaZX6

Mobil1 and other filters like Bosch ones are made by Champion labs, same people who make the $3 Wal-mart Supertech. They arent bad but they arent the best either. As far as filters go, Puro Pure one is def good unit, but one thing i always considered is oil flow capacity. the extremely packed pleats and supreme filteration would logically (depending on media type of course) would flow less oil (GPM). Id want a happy medium where filteration and oil flow meets, generally this is why i buy the Kawasaki factory filters on my bike (paying a high $10 each for them) based on meeting the engines specific oil flow and filteration guidelines. Frankly i have been wondering on using some of the high quality Nissan filter offerings on my bike since they are readily available at my job at Nissan. If its good enough to meet the needs on a 1000hp Skyline GTR's its good enough for my bike

hmm....
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b2...S/HPIM1704.jpg

1,000 hp skyline...OMG thats funny....they blow up regualry if they try to make a mere 600.

Ya my ZX14 makes 57 billion HP to then.....wild claims are being tossed, so i will join in.

Watch passtime, and see what happens when they turn the boost up just a little....two have been on the show, and neither made a complete pass and both were under 600HP as stated by the owners.

This is nothing against you, i just get tired of peoples exagerated HP claims is all.

Recently saw a young punk on a Suzi busa that claimed his bike made 500 HP....so i said put up or shut up...my nearly stock bike outran his supposedly 500 hp bike....no way in heck i would take him if it had anywhere near 500.
It was at best a 200 hp bike i guess.

[92NinjaZX6]

exaggerated claims eh? Well we deal with a reputable shop SP engineering, where they regulary make 700-800-900-1000hp+ Supra and Skylines cars for customers, none have blown up yet due to oiling issues using stock factory filters which is what im pointing out in the first place. Only ones ive know that blew up were from the idiot owners playing too much on boost controllers on street 91 gas. You have no idea how easily these cars can make 700-800-900-1000hp+. Its almost a norm.

Originally Posted by Saleenguy

1,000 hp skyline...OMG thats funny....they blow up regualry if they try to make a mere 600.

Ya my ZX14 makes 57 billion HP to then.....wild claims are being tossed, so i will join in.

Watch passtime, and see what happens when they turn the boost up just a little....two have been on the show, and neither made a complete pass and both were under 600HP as stated by the owners.

This is nothing against you, i just get tired of peoples exagerated HP claims is all.

Recently saw a young punk on a Suzi busa that claimed his bike made 500 HP....so i said put up or shut up...my nearly stock bike outran his supposedly 500 hp bike....no way in heck i would take him if it had anywhere near 500.
It was at best a 200 hp bike i guess.

[Saleenguy]

Originally Posted by 92NinjaZX6

exaggerated claims eh? Well we deal with a reputable shop SP engineering, where they regulary make 700-800-900-1000hp+ Supra and Skylines cars for customers, none have blown up yet due to oiling issues using stock factory filters which is what im pointing out in the first place. Only ones ive know that blew up were from the idiot owners playing too much on boost controllers on street 91 gas. You have no idea how easily these cars can make 700-800-900-1000hp+. Its almost a norm.

Really....so since the driveline can barely take 500 hp, what are they puttingthese motors in?

[RichLockyer]

Originally Posted by 92NinjaZX6

but one thing i always considered is oil flow capacity. the extremely packed pleats and supreme filteration would logically (depending on media type of course) would flow less oil (GPM). Id want a happy medium where filteration and oil flow meets

That's why I like the M1.
Synthetic media like the Pure-One, but not as much of it so it is not as restrictive.

[RichLockyer]

Originally Posted by 92NinjaZX6