ABS on a bike? is it worth it?

[aKorn]

Does anyone have an opinion or experience w/ ABS on a bike? I like it on my Car but I like to be in full control of what my motorcycle is doing.

I would love to hear your thoughts.

Mike

[Still lost]

Ditto fur us. Our Concours is regular brakes but our ST1300 has them. Like to hear anyone's comments on this.

[lh4x4]

Yes!!!! They are fantastic. The best safety feature going. Next to the Air bag on a Gold Wing.

[RichLockyer]

I like the idea... but you DO have to learn to use them, same as with those in a cage.

Linked braking spooks me a little more, but the system on the new Voyager disables itself at speeds below 12mph, so slow-speed maneuvering can be done normally using only the rear brake.

[rbentnail]

My current bike is the first one I've ever owned with ABS. Chances are I'll never own another bike without it.

[stonezx636]

Let me get this right...there are some of you out there who actually think under a PANIC stop situation..ya, know, car turns in front of you, you INSTINCTIVELY grab the brakes for all they are worth...you actually think that you can properly modulate your front and rear brakes for maximum braking force AND traction (which mean the ability to steer away from the trouble)...really? Any time you can buy ABS for $1000 do it folks...remember, PANIC stops are not something you practice in a parking lots, it's purely reactionary. Drop you bike at over 20mph...$1000 is a drop in the bucket for repairs, not to mention injuries. ABS is a no brainer folks.

[M38A1]

My bike has ABS and I'm not sure I'd own one without it for a couple of reasons.

First, as mentioned in panic stops your first thought is grabbing all the brake you can. The ABS works flawlessly in either wet or dry. It really doesn't matter HOW much brake you grab - the modulation still works. It DOES however take some getting used to. As in when you have one of those moments wondering if you are going to stop for the modulation cycles just keep you rolling. That's when you realize without it you would have just hit something.

Mine you can turn on and off for different riding styles although I've never had it off except to see what it takes to lock the rear. Not much and it was un-nerving so I switched it back on right away.

I can't place where I've seen it, but the majority of PD's have sold their non-ABS bikes in favor of ABS outfitted bikes due to some high number of like 80% of fleets could have been prevented with ABS. Once the bikes were in the fleet, their accident rates dropped by some similar number. I need to bookmark that when I find it again.

But yes, the ABS is worth every penny IMO.

[aKorn]

Originally Posted by stonezx636

Let me get this right...there are some of you out there who actually think under a PANIC stop situation..ya, know, car turns in front of you, you INSTINCTIVELY grab the brakes for all they are worth...you actually think that you can properly modulate your front and rear brakes for maximum braking force AND traction (which mean the ability to steer away from the trouble)...really? Any time you can buy ABS for $1000 do it folks...remember, PANIC stops are not something you practice in a parking lots, it's purely reactionary. Drop you bike at over 20mph...$1000 is a drop in the bucket for repairs, not to mention injuries. ABS is a no brainer folks.

So I take it that you have ABS on your bikes and you like it?

Brakes are a very very important part of a bike so I'm just seeing what other folks experiences have been. I'm a little reluctant to turn my breaking over to a computer. The problem I have is there are times when I do want to just lock up the back brake, especially at low speeds. I'll probably go w/ ABS, just making sure they work as advertised.

Rich - excellent point about linked brakes, makes me a bit nervous also.

Originally Posted by M38A1

My bike has ABS and I'm not sure I'd own one without it for a couple of reasons.

First, as mentioned in panic stops your first thought is grabbing all the brake you can. The ABS works flawlessly in either wet or dry. It really doesn't matter HOW much brake you grab - the modulation still works. It DOES however take some getting used to. As in when you have one of those moments wondering if you are going to stop for the modulation cycles just keep you rolling. That's when you realize without it you would have just hit something.

Mine you can turn on and off for different riding styles although I've never had it off except to see what it takes to lock the rear. Not much and it was un-nerving so I switched it back on right away.

I can't place where I've seen it, but the majority of PD's have sold their non-ABS bikes in favor of ABS outfitted bikes due to some high number of like 80% of fleets could have been prevented with ABS. Once the bikes were in the fleet, their accident rates dropped by some similar number. I need to bookmark that when I find it again.

But yes, the ABS is worth every penny IMO.

Thanks - good info. I know in my cage, they help a lot and I'd want my kids to have cars w/ ABS. May I ask you what bike you have that let's you decide when to use them?

[M38A1]

Originally Posted by aKorn

May I ask you what bike you have that let's you decide when to use them?

It's an '01 BMW R1150GS. I think after about 2000 just about every BMW offered has the ABS option, but I'm not 100% on that statement. It's a simple on/off cycle pressing a button to activate/deactivate the system too.

[stonezx636]

while there may be a few of us driving vintage cages without computer aids, I am fairly safe in my generalization that modern cages with abs..along with ALL of the other computers and functions controlled by computers...are by far safer and just as fun to drive as their nonABS versions...as for locking up ur brakes...you said there are times you actually want to lock them up..the rear i think you said..really? A locked up brake/wheel actually has LESS traction than a properly modulated or controlled wheel, plus retains at least some small amount of available traction for steering control. Rule number one...braking and steering consum traction that is finite...once traction is gone..ie locked up, then there is no steering available. If locking up brakes was the best idea, then all of the experts would be saying..aww, screw it, just grab the brakes for all they are worth and hold on for dear life. In the rare instance that your driving your scooter on a gravel or sandy road and the ABS actually may contribute to longer stopping distances...its a reminder that your over driving the conditions. Skidding aint stopping in control, period.

[aKorn]

Originally Posted by stonezx636

while there may be a few of us driving vintage cages without computer aids, I am fairly safe in my generalization that modern cages with abs..along with ALL of the other computers and functions controlled by computers...are by far safer and just as fun to drive as their nonABS versions...as for locking up ur brakes...you said there are times you actually want to lock them up..the rear i think you said..really? A locked up brake/wheel actually has LESS traction than a properly modulated or controlled wheel, plus retains at least some small amount of available traction for steering control. Rule number one...braking and steering consum traction that is finite...once traction is gone..ie locked up, then there is no steering available. If locking up brakes was the best idea, then all of the experts would be saying..aww, screw it, just grab the brakes for all they are worth and hold on for dear life. In the rare instance that your driving your scooter on a gravel or sandy road and the ABS actually may contribute to longer stopping distances...its a reminder that your over driving the conditions. Skidding aint stopping in control, period.

So do you have experience w/ ABS on you bike(s)?

Just to clarify, I'm not looking for instructions on braking. I'm a pretty experienced rider. I'm looking for peoples experience / opinions w/ ABS. Yes, I live on a gravel road and I frequent both gravel and sandy roads. That's part of my concern.

thanks for your thought.

[aKorn]

Nice Bike!

I'm having ST1300(A) fantasies at the moment. I can get a used non-ABS version much cheaper than the ABS. For example there is a 2007 non-ABS w/ 1,700 miles for sale for 7k. (a very good deal)

I'll probably hold out for the an ABS version. Oh yea, and I have to save the money too so this is a winter / spring decision.

[stonezx636]

Me experience is ABS Concour 14, ABS Goldwing...yes the pulsing is different...but again..skidding is NOT any control...there are no instances where skidding your tires, front or rear is better for braking than a stop that uses all of the available traction...skidding is NOT using all of the available traction. I own the concours 14...the zx636, the vn1500 classsic, the original ELR, owned a gpz750. Been riding since I was 8...i am now 50. owned several dirt bikes, where skidding is a different issue, but even then, locking up a wheel is not using it to its best advantage.

[Kawasaki 636]

Originally Posted by lh4x4

Yes!!!! They are fantastic. The best safety feature going. Next to the Air bag on a Gold Wing.

who said goldwing has an airbag....

[aKorn]

Originally Posted by stonezx636

Me experience is ABS Concour 14, ABS Goldwing...yes the pulsing is different...but again..skidding is NOT any control...there are no instances where skidding your tires, front or rear is better for braking than a stop that uses all of the available traction...skidding is NOT using all of the available traction. I own the concours 14...the zx636, the vn1500 classsic, the original ELR, owned a gpz750. Been riding since I was 8...i am now 50. owned several dirt bikes, where skidding is a different issue, but even then, locking up a wheel is not using it to its best advantage.

thanks for your input.

[jlvdo]

Most above information is good. My question is: does anyone know of any actual studies done in regard to the efficacy of ABS relative to accidents?

I don't have ABS on my C14. Wouldn't mind trying it. One additional thought to this discussion is track time and classes to test limits and see how the bike reacts in max'ed out conditions has helped my riding tremendously, and its fun!

[jaydub77]

Well I talked to my old riding instructor and he says that nobody should use abs on their bikes for a couple of reasons....if you need abs then you most likely will pay less attention to your braking because you are not worried about it...therefore you may grow into a less careful rider...the other is that you rely less on your own skills to the point that if the abs fails...you're screwed...to put it more simply, are you going to put your life in your own hands..or are you going to trust a computer and a complex system with your life when you want to come to a stop? all professional racer's be it on 2 wheels or 4 DO NOT use anti lock brakes..don't forget, one of the ways to steer a bike is braking, which even includes perhaps locking up your brakes in a certain situation

now that being said...certain people may benefit from abs...but the main point here is that you are relying less on your skills as a rider, and when you do that you stop learning and pushing forward in the mastering of a motorcycle...just my .02

[aKorn]

Originally Posted by jaydub77

all professional racer's be it on 2 wheels or 4 DO NOT use anti lock brakes..don't forget, one of the ways to steer a bike is braking, which even includes perhaps locking up your brakes in a certain situation

now that being said...certain people may benefit from abs...but the main point here is that you are relying less on your skills as a rider, and when you do that you stop learning and pushing forward in the mastering of a motorcycle...just my .02

Interesting points. Never thought to check w/ a race instructor. I am an experienced biker and know how to use my brakes very well so it's not that I don't know. It's more like can they save my A$$ in a one-off situation.

Though to be fair, you rarely have the "emergency stop" maneuver on the track unless some falls in front of you. I really see the ABS as being useful when you are traveling in a straight line and you need to just lock the brakes and see how fast you can stop for example when avoiding a deer or a car pulling out in front of you.

Hey folks who have ABS on their bikes.. Can you still control each brake individually? Can only one of the 2 wheels go into Anti-lock mode while the other continues to function normally?

Also, what exactly does "Linked" mean when it refers to ABS braking? In a cage, we're all used to not having independent control of the front and back wheels, but on a bike it's very important.

Great Discussion!

[aKorn]

To answer my own question with someone elses words.... Linked brakes sound a bit scary:

Integrated brakes and linked brakes are not one in the same description of non-standard braking systems. Integrated brakes controls the braking distribution front to rear to a preset percentage. It is usually an automatic percentage control of the rear brake with rider application of the front brake. The newer RTs and GTs feature this type of brake control. The rear brake can be rider controlled independently of the front brake.

Linked braking is just that, the front brakes are "linked" hydraulically to the rear brake, so applying one applies the other, more like a car where one brake pedal applies all the brakes. But some linked brake systems do have a partial application of the front brake if just the rear brake is applied. On linked brake systems the rear brake cannot be applied alone. The LTs are the only current BMW model with linked brakes.

[aKorn]

Here is how Honda describes it.

Anti-Lock Braking System (ABS)

Honda's first ABS-equipped production motorcycle was the 1991 ST1100. The system utilized modulators--one each on the front and rear wheels--driven directly by specially developed electric motors. In operation, an Electronic Control Unit (ECU) monitors wheel and vehicle speed. If one or both of the wheels approach a locking condition, the modulators, via a signal from the ECU, lower hydraulic pressure by acting directly on the brake piston(s). As wheel speed reapproaches motorcycle speed, the hydraulic pressure is increased. This entire process is repeated numerous times in just one second, resulting in optimal braking pressure and enhanced rider control. A second type of ABS for scooters features a circulating-type modulator with a single motor-driven pump that generates hydraulic pressure regulated by an ECU-activated solenoid valve to control both front and rear brakes. Today, Honda ABS is offered optionally on Linked Braking System™- and Combined Braking System-equipped machines.

Linked Braking System (LBS)

Honda's first street motorcycle with linked braking was the 1983 GL1100 Gold Wing. Called Unified Braking at the time, the system was derived from a "works" RCB1000 that won numerous endurance race victories in 1976. Today Honda offers highly sophisticated LBS™ as exemplified by the current Gold Wing's dual full-floating 296mm front discs with three-piston calipers and single ventilated 316mm rear disc with one three-piston caliper. A second master cylinder and a three-stage proportional control valve couple the three-piston calipers of the dual-front and single-rear brake discs. On the Gold Wing, using the front brake lever activates the outer two pistons of the front right-side caliper and the center piston of the front left-side caliper and, acting through the secondary master cylinder and an inline proportioning valve, the outer two pistons of the rear caliper. The rear brake pedal operates the center piston of the rear brake caliper, the center piston of the front right-side brake caliper and the outer two pistons of the front left-side caliper. A delay valve sensitive to the rider's pedal pressure smoothens front-brake engagement. Other models offer variations of this system.