Couple newbie questions...

ClearDark · 05-26-2006

I obtained my permit and decided to try riding. I bought all the gear etc etc.

Anyhow, I went out and tried on my friends Kawasaki Spectre 550. I had horrible luck. Kept dumping the bike, couldnt really get started on it, whenever I would get going it would wanna go to the left. Not quite sure what happened, but I will say its not the best starter bike. The handlebars are weird, they are bent inward more to your chest and I think that may have been messing me up. This Sunday im going to try and learn on a Honda Rebel 250. That should be a bit better. Anyhow, I have just a couple questions...mainly about turning/counter steering.

When you are trying to turn the bike at low speeds, i know you dont countersteer, you just turn the direction you want to go (assuming I can start out on it and not dump it). How easy is it to muff up and dump the bike turning low speeds.

My other concern is going around a corner/leaning. Do you have to forcefully lean, or does your body naturally lean with the bike. I know when you go around a corner you push right to go right, so basically your pushing in the opposite direction, ala counter steering. However, once the bike is into the corner, do you keep the handlebars pushed right and should that take you all the way around the corner? How do you get the bike upright again?

Thanks for entertaining a potential new rider and answering my questions. Hopefully I can manage to get the Rebel upright without dumping it.

BigJohn · 05-26-2006

First off, get into a MSF Begning Riders Course. They'll teach you the basics real fast. Takes an evening and a couple of days.

At low speeds (less than 15 MPH) just turn the handle bars.

At higher speeds you don't really need to "push" on the handlebars. It's more like lean on the end of the bar and stay leaning/pushing on it until you are ready to point the bike in another direciton (like straight down the road).

If you insist on teaching yourself, spend at least half an hour "duck walking" the bike across a parking lot. First with the engine off, then with the engine on and holding the clutch in. When you reach the other side, duck walk it bike around and point it in the other direciton.

It sounds like you were tryng to put your feet on the pegs before you were moving. Some students unconciously lift their feet off the ground before the bike gets moving and the ballance is stable.

DON'T TRY TO TURN UNTIL YOU CAN RIDE IN A STRAIGHT LINE. Ride across the parking lot and stop (with your feet [both of them] on the ground). Duckwalk the bike around and get pointed in the opposite direciton. Now, Ride straight across again. Repeat, repeat, repeat until you are boared to tears. The do it some more.

Now you can start learning how to apply the brakes. BOTH of them at the same time.

Once you got straight line riding down, start practicing turns at low speeds.

ALL of this should be done in an empty parking lot that is at least the size of a basket ball court.

Practice, practice, practice!

cudaosix · 05-26-2006

John gave you good advise. Best advise I can give you is to sign up for a MSF course and wait untill your riding the schools bikes, learn with the instructors. Doesnt sound like your ready to hop on and take off.

ClearDark · 05-26-2006

No, not quite ready to hop on and ride, thats the point of learning Sunday.

I think you are right, I do remember prematurely putting my feel on the pegs once or twice. This was done in a parking lot.

Unfortunately, I signed up for the MSF course but they wont be able to get me into one until what looks to be late fall or next summer; bummer. So, I am going to practice, practice, and practice in the warehouse parking lot. Duck walking is a good idea. I will try that. But thanks so far.

**2WheelFun** · 05-26-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClearDark

No, not quite ready to hop on and ride, thats the point of learning Sunday.

I think you are right, I do remember prematurely putting my feel on the pegs once or twice. This was done in a parking lot.

Unfortunately, I signed up for the MSF course but they wont be able to get me into one until what looks to be late fall or next summer; bummer. So, I am going to practice, practice, and practice in the warehouse parking lot. Duck walking is a good idea. I will try that. But thanks so far.

www.ridelikeapro.com

Bodie · 05-26-2006

It sounds like you have the academics of turning down pat.

Yes, it is easy to dump the bike when doing low speed turns. It's basic physics. When you're at speed, there is more force pulling forward than down, centrifugal force I think, so you don't fall. At low speeds, the force of gravity exceeds the forward force of the bike, so you have to be more careful. It helps to shift your weight to the opposite side of your turn to balance the gravity.

Also, accelerating through the turn will increase the gyroscopic effect and keep your bike upright. Don't just pull the clutch and coast through the turn. Slow down to a safe speed well before you turn, and then accelerate slightly through it while looking ahead through the turn. Your bike tends to go where you look. If you look straight down, that's where you'll end up.

As far as forcing a lean when you turn, I'd say...sorta. You force the lean by just leaning your body and shifting your weight. You get back upright by doing just the opposite. Also, you do have to turn the wheel slightly when you turn, so getting back upright is just a matter of putting your wheel straight again and sitting up. The bike acts like a gyroscope...or one of those inflatable punching bags with the sand in the bottom. At speed, your bike WANTS to be upright and stable. If you stop leaning, it will pop back up for the most part.

I believe it was once said that the most unstable part of a motorcycle is the rider.

ClearDark · 05-26-2006

Thanks bodie. I will be out most of the day Sunday trying to learn as much as I can.

luvda6R · 05-26-2006

First, welcome to the forum.

as said, turning at low speeds is probably one of the easiest ways to muff up the bike early on. the bike is not helping you out at all to stay balanced.

This is what I learned early on...when turning at low speeds the keys are to lean the bike slightly into the corner WHILE counter-weighting with your body to the outside...which means as you lean the bike over a little (not too much!), you use your body weight to the outside in order to keep everything balanced. As you do this, you also turn into the corner (yep, no counter-steering at slow speeds) If you try to lean the bike over into a slow corner, and don't counter balance with your body, you'll just tip over. Giving the bike a little lean will help you turn tighter. This may look and feel awkward at first, but it becomes natural after a while. After a while you’ll put more pressure on the pegs as you set this up, and kinda move the bike underneath you. Another piece that MUST be done in combination (and previously mentioned), is look where you want to go. If you're doing a left U-turn you want be looking roughly 90 degrees to the left, where you'll be exiting the turn, early on as you're entering the turn. I found that practicing looking further into the turn than I initially wanted to (because you feel like your not looking in front of you and will hit something) helped me out once I got used to it.

In terms of leaning in higher-speed corners, I'd say that a few techniques compliment each other...leaning to a certain extent (not really “forcefully”), counter-steering, the amt. that you accelerate (yep, always want to accelerate through a corner, if even just barely - being off-throttle will make you somewhat unstable). It's not all leaning though, and it will kinda come naturally as you practice.

I'd recommend taking the MSF - I took it a while after I learned, but it was still useful.

well, hope that helps...good luck!

ervins · 05-27-2006

Welcome to the forum. I read the first couple of lines and said to myself, "this guy needs to go to the MSF"...Get signed up for the MSF and don't thing about countersteering etc before you even know how to go a straight line...Be safe and smart.

ClearDark · 05-27-2006

Well, if you read the rest of my post, I cant get in an MSF course until later this season or next summer, they are booked solid. Im going to have a good friend of mine teach me today and tomorrow. Should be fun.

LiL_Ninja · 05-27-2006

yeha, just finsihed the MSF class myself, you basically learn how to ride a bike in a day..and the 2nd day you simply work on getting smoother at it

longbeachgary · 05-27-2006

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/188...lance&n=283155

and when you're done with that

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/193...lance&n=283155

CTRider · 05-27-2006

Welcome to the forum. The others here seem to have you covered on the advice, so I can't really add anything except NEVER hit the front brake while turning or you'll fall in the direction you're turning. You can control low speed turns using the clutch and REAR brake, but keep yer paws off the front one. Good luck.

ClearDark · 05-28-2006

Heres an update for those who care:

I went out with the Rebel 250. What an easy bike to ride, and it was fun. I got all the techniques down mostly now. I spent about 3-4 hours doing basic stops and go's, cornering, etc, and hit the streets around evening. I had no problems at all, and never dumped the bike. Im pretty stoked. Time to get my own now.

iron pony · 2 Weeks Ago

It has been a few years now, just wondering , did you ever get your own bike ?

05-26-2006	#1 (permalink)
ClearDark Newbie Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 10	Couple newbie questions... I obtained my permit and decided to try riding. I bought all the gear etc etc. Anyhow, I went out and tried on my friends Kawasaki Spectre 550. I had horrible luck. Kept dumping the bike, couldnt really get started on it, whenever I would get going it would wanna go to the left. Not quite sure what happened, but I will say its not the best starter bike. The handlebars are weird, they are bent inward more to your chest and I think that may have been messing me up. This Sunday im going to try and learn on a Honda Rebel 250. That should be a bit better. Anyhow, I have just a couple questions...mainly about turning/counter steering. When you are trying to turn the bike at low speeds, i know you dont countersteer, you just turn the direction you want to go (assuming I can start out on it and not dump it). How easy is it to muff up and dump the bike turning low speeds. My other concern is going around a corner/leaning. Do you have to forcefully lean, or does your body naturally lean with the bike. I know when you go around a corner you push right to go right, so basically your pushing in the opposite direction, ala counter steering. However, once the bike is into the corner, do you keep the handlebars pushed right and should that take you all the way around the corner? How do you get the bike upright again? Thanks for entertaining a potential new rider and answering my questions. Hopefully I can manage to get the Rebel upright without dumping it.

05-26-2006	#2 (permalink)
BigJohn Power Hungry V2K Rider Forum Supporter Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Lake Stevens, WA Posts: 6,393	First off, get into a MSF Begning Riders Course. They'll teach you the basics real fast. Takes an evening and a couple of days. At low speeds (less than 15 MPH) just turn the handle bars. At higher speeds you don't really need to "push" on the handlebars. It's more like lean on the end of the bar and stay leaning/pushing on it until you are ready to point the bike in another direciton (like straight down the road). If you insist on teaching yourself, spend at least half an hour "duck walking" the bike across a parking lot. First with the engine off, then with the engine on and holding the clutch in. When you reach the other side, duck walk it bike around and point it in the other direciton. It sounds like you were tryng to put your feet on the pegs before you were moving. Some students unconciously lift their feet off the ground before the bike gets moving and the ballance is stable. DON'T TRY TO TURN UNTIL YOU CAN RIDE IN A STRAIGHT LINE. Ride across the parking lot and stop (with your feet [both of them] on the ground). Duckwalk the bike around and get pointed in the opposite direciton. Now, Ride straight across again. Repeat, repeat, repeat until you are boared to tears. The do it some more. Now you can start learning how to apply the brakes. BOTH of them at the same time. Once you got straight line riding down, start practicing turns at low speeds. ALL of this should be done in an empty parking lot that is at least the size of a basket ball court. Practice, practice, practice! __________________ '00 Nomad '06 V2K LT Because RED is the fastest color... Last edited by BigJohn : 05-26-2006 at 03:47 PM.

05-26-2006	#3 (permalink)
cudaosix Guitar nerd BTK Expert Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Miami, Florida Posts: 3,542	John gave you good advise. Best advise I can give you is to sign up for a MSF course and wait untill your riding the schools bikes, learn with the instructors. Doesnt sound like your ready to hop on and take off. __________________ Over 40 MegaFonzies and rising 1980 KZ1000

05-26-2006	#8 (permalink)
luvda6R Refrigerator Magnet Test Engineer BTK Expert Join Date: May 2005 Location: North Lake Tahoe, CA Posts: 495	First, welcome to the forum. as said, turning at low speeds is probably one of the easiest ways to muff up the bike early on. the bike is not helping you out at all to stay balanced. This is what I learned early on...when turning at low speeds the keys are to lean the bike slightly into the corner WHILE counter-weighting with your body to the outside...which means as you lean the bike over a little (not too much!), you use your body weight to the outside in order to keep everything balanced. As you do this, you also turn into the corner (yep, no counter-steering at slow speeds) If you try to lean the bike over into a slow corner, and don't counter balance with your body, you'll just tip over. Giving the bike a little lean will help you turn tighter. This may look and feel awkward at first, but it becomes natural after a while. After a while you’ll put more pressure on the pegs as you set this up, and kinda move the bike underneath you. Another piece that MUST be done in combination (and previously mentioned), is look where you want to go. If you're doing a left U-turn you want be looking roughly 90 degrees to the left, where you'll be exiting the turn, early on as you're entering the turn. I found that practicing looking further into the turn than I initially wanted to (because you feel like your not looking in front of you and will hit something) helped me out once I got used to it. In terms of leaning in higher-speed corners, I'd say that a few techniques compliment each other...leaning to a certain extent (not really “forcefully”), counter-steering, the amt. that you accelerate (yep, always want to accelerate through a corner, if even just barely - being off-throttle will make you somewhat unstable). It's not all leaning though, and it will kinda come naturally as you practice. I'd recommend taking the MSF - I took it a while after I learned, but it was still useful. well, hope that helps...good luck! __________________ '05 ZX-6R Two Bros CF V.A.L.E. Zero Gravity Double Bubble Last edited by luvda6R : 05-26-2006 at 06:54 PM.

05-27-2006	#9 (permalink)
ervins MOM Sept 2006 Forum Supporter Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Castro Valley, CA Posts: 11,825	Welcome to the forum. I read the first couple of lines and said to myself, "this guy needs to go to the MSF"...Get signed up for the MSF and don't thing about countersteering etc before you even know how to go a straight line...Be safe and smart. __________________ Black 2006 ZX-10R http://cache.www.gametracker.com/ser...0/b_560x95.png

05-26-2006	#4 (permalink)
ClearDark Newbie Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 10	No, not quite ready to hop on and ride, thats the point of learning Sunday. I think you are right, I do remember prematurely putting my feel on the pegs once or twice. This was done in a parking lot. Unfortunately, I signed up for the MSF course but they wont be able to get me into one until what looks to be late fall or next summer; bummer. So, I am going to practice, practice, and practice in the warehouse parking lot. Duck walking is a good idea. I will try that. But thanks so far.

05-26-2006	#6 (permalink)
Bodie Turtle Wax Taster BTK Intermediate Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Napa, CA Posts: 199	It sounds like you have the academics of turning down pat. Yes, it is easy to dump the bike when doing low speed turns. It's basic physics. When you're at speed, there is more force pulling forward than down, centrifugal force I think, so you don't fall. At low speeds, the force of gravity exceeds the forward force of the bike, so you have to be more careful. It helps to shift your weight to the opposite side of your turn to balance the gravity. Also, accelerating through the turn will increase the gyroscopic effect and keep your bike upright. Don't just pull the clutch and coast through the turn. Slow down to a safe speed well before you turn, and then accelerate slightly through it while looking ahead through the turn. Your bike tends to go where you look. If you look straight down, that's where you'll end up. As far as forcing a lean when you turn, I'd say...sorta. You force the lean by just leaning your body and shifting your weight. You get back upright by doing just the opposite. Also, you do have to turn the wheel slightly when you turn, so getting back upright is just a matter of putting your wheel straight again and sitting up. The bike acts like a gyroscope...or one of those inflatable punching bags with the sand in the bottom. At speed, your bike WANTS to be upright and stable. If you stop leaning, it will pop back up for the most part. I believe it was once said that the most unstable part of a motorcycle is the rider.

05-26-2006	#7 (permalink)
ClearDark Newbie Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 10	Thanks bodie. I will be out most of the day Sunday trying to learn as much as I can.

05-27-2006	#10 (permalink)
ClearDark Newbie Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 10	Well, if you read the rest of my post, I cant get in an MSF course until later this season or next summer, they are booked solid. Im going to have a good friend of mine teach me today and tomorrow. Should be fun.

05-27-2006	#11 (permalink)
LiL_Ninja Clutch Cadet BTK Expert Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: LBC, So Cali Posts: 374	yeha, just finsihed the MSF class myself, you basically learn how to ride a bike in a day..and the 2nd day you simply work on getting smoother at it __________________ 2007 Civic SI - Fiji Blue Pearl 2006 Kawasaki Ninja 250 - Lightning Blue

05-27-2006	#12 (permalink)
longbeachgary Banned BTK Expert Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Long Beach, CA Posts: 841	http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/188...lance&n=283155 and when you're done with that http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/193...lance&n=283155

05-27-2006	#13 (permalink)
CTRider TV Guru Forum Supporter Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Connecticut Posts: 10,599	Welcome to the forum. The others here seem to have you covered on the advice, so I can't really add anything except NEVER hit the front brake while turning or you'll fall in the direction you're turning. You can control low speed turns using the clutch and REAR brake, but keep yer paws off the front one. Good luck. __________________ 1983 Honda CB550 About Me Answers to your Gadget Questions Gadget Forum

05-28-2006	#14 (permalink)
ClearDark Newbie Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 10	Heres an update for those who care: I went out with the Rebel 250. What an easy bike to ride, and it was fun. I got all the techniques down mostly now. I spent about 3-4 hours doing basic stops and go's, cornering, etc, and hit the streets around evening. I had no problems at all, and never dumped the bike. Im pretty stoked. Time to get my own now.

2 Weeks Ago	#15 (permalink)
iron pony Sit speling cheker BTK Expert Join Date: May 2008 Location: HOUSTON,FLATONIA Posts: 414	It has been a few years now, just wondering , did you ever get your own bike ? __________________ DON'T BE A SUCKA ALL YOUR LIFE , BUY A MOTORCYCLE !

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