Looks like new laws go into effect in Florida

[MotorCDR]

Originally Posted by sebastian1000

Yes, I understand that discretion of the LEO is also used, but just the fact that someone could give this fine to you if they FELT so inclined is crazy to me.

This deserves a separate response.

The cop has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE FINE. All that he or she does is issue a summons or, if necessary, arrest you to make sure that you get your moment in front of the judge (then gives testimony).

The fine and penalty are determined by the judge, in and only if the jury finds you guilty of the offense. The cop has no input on this, and the prosecutor is only able to request a certain penalty, even if there is a plea deal (the judge has to agree to the deal, too).

Doing something that makes your plate harder to read is no different than wearing a ski mask. If you are doing so for a legitimate reason, fine, but you have to convince the jury that you had a legitimate reason. They are not likely to be too sympathetic if this is in the middle of a spate of accidents, news stories, etc involving squids.

[MotorCDR]

Originally Posted by JG6_oddball

your kidding right? ...following your mentality 3/4 of the men in the world should be charged with a felony! that kind of intolerant and blind obedience to a flawed law is scary....im 42 my GF is 20 ...should I be on death row?

I dunno about where you were raised, but in my neighborhood we knew that "16 will get you 20" -- that is, it's a no-no to have sex with someone under the legal age.

Your buddy broke that law (a lot of people do when the GF is 6 months younger than they are), but if he had KEPT HIS MOUTH SHUT ABOUT IT, it might not have been a problem.

Instead, when they started "guy-talking" him, he not only took the bait, he happily gulped down the hook, the line, the reel and the whole damn boat, so that everyone would know what a stud he was.

Where I come from, we call that "too stupid to live!"

[RichLockyer]

Originally Posted by JG6_oddball

im 42 my GF is 20 ...should I be on death row?

If you were bangin' her 5 years ago, darn tootin and I'd be the first in line to pull the switch.

[The Vulcaniser]

Originally Posted by bretsk2500

Most people's problem here isn't the stunting or speeding issues, it's the draconian penalty for improperly affixing your license plate.

my only issue with the "wheels losing contact" law (Maine's had one for a long time, but it pertains to ANY vehicle) is there is no room for discretion when my back end comes up a little trying to avoid a collision when grandma doesn't see me (which has happened).

I don't have an issue with the speeding one either *IF* it applies to ALL vehicles.

Not sure what the penalty is here.... but you must have the plate on the rear of the vehicle/motorcycle, and it needs to be properly orientated....

[bretsk2500]

Originally Posted by The Vulcaniser

Not sure what the penalty is here.... but you must have the plate on the rear of the vehicle/motorcycle, and it needs to be properly orientated....

here it's an inspection violation, which will get you a "fix it" ticket which gives you 24h to repair it and present the vehicle at the station of the ticketing officer. if you fail to do so, it converts to I think an $85 fine

[Vulcan900]

MotorCDR: “The cop has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE FINE.”

Bullturd!!!

The LEO is the one that picked you out of a sea of infractions speeding past him at warp 7, not using their blinker, running red lights/stop signs, etc… We all ride/drive in traffic and we see the $hit people in cars do every day. He is also the one who makes the judgment that the plate is “improperly displayed”, or that your stopie was unreasonable when you were trying to avoid the idiot that just cut you off and then slammed on their brakes.

MotorCDR: “The fine and penalty are determined by the judge, in and only if the jury finds you guilty of the offense.”

Bullturd again!!! The law uses the word “must” several times in describing the penalties. Once the ticket is written there is no leeway on what the penalty will be, first offense is a big fine, second offense is a larger fine and a year w/o a license, the third time is a felony and you get to go in front of a judge.

Read the statute before commenting.

[MotorCDR]

Originally Posted by Vulcan900

MotorCDR: “The cop has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE FINE.”

Bullturd!!!

The LEO is the one that picked you out of a sea of infractions speeding past him at warp 7, not using their blinker, running red lights/stop signs, etc… We all ride/drive in traffic and we see the $hit people in cars do every day. He is also the one who makes the judgment that the plate is “improperly displayed”, or that your stopie was unreasonable when you were trying to avoid the idiot that just cut you off and then slammed on their brakes.

So, what's your complaint? That he got YOU for it, instead of getting someone else? Well sorry, there are only so many traffic cops, and if you are the offender who drew his focus, TOO DAMN BAD.

As far as the cop's judgment about your plate, gee, pal, how about just LEAVING IT WHERE IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE in the first place? As I have noted, every motor sold for street riding in the US since 1968 comes with a legal place to mount the plate. If your plate is somewhere else, well, it didn't just crawl, someone decided to put it there.

If you ever get a citation for improper plate that you feel was not deserved (that is, you think the plate is legally mounted), then have the cop call for a supervisor to come check it out. Make a note if the cop has a Dashcam, and if so, subpoena the video for court. If you have a camera (or someone who can bring one in a hurry), shoot a pic of the back of the motor, showing the plate (and, hopefully, the cop car parked behind it and the cop writing the cite).

But, really, if you've moved the plate up under the fender, YOU KNOW you're not legal. Is it worth $1000 to you to prove it?

MotorCDR: “The fine and penalty are determined by the judge, in and only if the jury finds you guilty of the offense.”

Bullturd again!!! The law uses the word “must” several times in describing the penalties. Once the ticket is written there is no leeway on what the penalty will be, first offense is a big fine, second offense is a larger fine and a year w/o a license, the third time is a felony and you get to go in front of a judge.

Read the statute before commenting.

Learn something of the law before commenting. Once the ticket is written there is ULTIMATE leeway.

The citation is only a summons and testimony. It isn't proof of your guilt. That must be proven to the court -- unless you are stupid enough that you just pay the first one cash-and-carry -- either by the testimony on the citation, or by dragging in witnesses (such as the cop) who testify for or against you.

UNLESS YOU ARE FOUND GUILTY BY JUDGE AND JURY, THERE IS NO PENALTY.

That means you've only got to convince ONE PERSON out of THIRTEEN that your stoppie was unavoidable, and the same law that you're whining about says that not only are you not guilty, but the matter ends right then and there, you can't be tried for it again.

Don't like those odds? Well, hey, you know what you can do to make sure it never comes up, ha?

Just FYI, as it is now, improper display of the license plate can get your vehicle impounded anywhere in the US. How many times have you heard of this happening?

Just to give you a hint, I've NEVER heard of someone being cited solely for plate violation, except when that was the only thing that could be done to get a jackass off the streets.

NOT ONCE.

Any traffic officer who presents a plate-only citation has to explain to supervisor and division commander why he or she spent their time like that. Invariably, the response is something like this: "That guy was popping wheelies on Front Street the other day, but he had his plate hidden and I couldn't get it as he took off. Today I saw him pulling into the parking lot, same motor, same outfit, but he was behaving. I wanted to get him off the street, and this was the only way."

I suppose it's possible to get your panties in a bunch over something like this, but like I said earlier, until people are allowed to shoot squids, the cops have to do what little they can.

[MaxB]

Originally Posted by RichLockyer

Sadly, this will simply result in even MORE squids running from the cops.

Exactly. Whos gunna risk having to pay $1000 just for having a little fun.

[MotorCDR]

Originally Posted by MaxB

Exactly. Whos gunna risk having to pay $1000 just for having a little fun.

This attitude brings us one day closer to seeing motorcycles banned from public roads.

What you see as "a little fun" is seen by the vast majority as DANGEROUS.

[Ruger]

Originally Posted by MotorCDR

So, what's your complaint? That he got YOU for it, instead of getting someone else? Well sorry, there are only so many traffic cops, and if you are the offender who drew his focus, TOO DAMN BAD.

As far as the cop's judgment about your plate, gee, pal, how about just LEAVING IT WHERE IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE in the first place? As I have noted, every motor sold for street riding in the US since 1968 comes with a legal place to mount the plate. If your plate is somewhere else, well, it didn't just crawl, someone decided to put it there.

If you ever get a citation for improper plate that you feel was not deserved (that is, you think the plate is legally mounted), then have the cop call for a supervisor to come check it out. Make a note if the cop has a Dashcam, and if so, subpoena the video for court. If you have a camera (or someone who can bring one in a hurry), shoot a pic of the back of the motor, showing the plate (and, hopefully, the cop car parked behind it and the cop writing the cite).

But, really, if you've moved the plate up under the fender, YOU KNOW you're not legal. Is it worth $1000 to you to prove it?



Learn something of the law before commenting. Once the ticket is written there is ULTIMATE leeway.

The citation is only a summons and testimony. It isn't proof of your guilt. That must be proven to the court -- unless you are stupid enough that you just pay the first one cash-and-carry -- either by the testimony on the citation, or by dragging in witnesses (such as the cop) who testify for or against you.

UNLESS YOU ARE FOUND GUILTY BY JUDGE AND JURY, THERE IS NO PENALTY.

That means you've only got to convince ONE PERSON out of THIRTEEN that your stoppie was unavoidable, and the same law that you're whining about says that not only are you not guilty, but the matter ends right then and there, you can't be tried for it again.

Don't like those odds? Well, hey, you know what you can do to make sure it never comes up, ha?

Just FYI, as it is now, improper display of the license plate can get your vehicle impounded anywhere in the US. How many times have you heard of this happening?

I hear the "look at all those other people doing (enter violation here), why aren't you stopping them?" remark a lot. I explain that working traffic is like fishing - there are lots of fish, but usually I can only get one at a time. (My record is 3 at one time ) In Texas you have to have a plate one the front and back of most vehicles, but people keep taking off the front plate because they think it "looks better". I get the "it wasn't there when I bought it" excuse. NO dealer in their right mind would let a vehicle go off the lot without the plate holder on the front of the car, but people tell me that also. Here the fine isn't that high (usually $200 + court cost), still, I wouldn't pay that bacause my car "looks better" without it.

I usually write warnings for missing or improper display, unless the person is a complete A*&hole. I have never towed one. I will write a hard copy on the first offense to a motorcycle if it is obvious that the plate was moved to hide the plate. I don't even bother with those that are mounted on the side as long as I can read them.

Remember folks, it is less than useless to argue with the officer on the side of the road. You can argue with the judge, you can demand a jury trial or whatever you want, but arguing on the side of the road won't get you anywhere.

[Sabre2007/900]

Ok, I've read the entire thread so far. Reading whats posted "seems" to indicate a problem. I agree to a great extent with MotorCDR, but then I was involved with law enforcement years ago. This law appears to have been put together with a great deal of intolerance for "minor" infractions (the plate portion only). That being said, this is truly the result of getting the general public upset with the riding habits of an extremely small percentage of riders. I've worked as/with many LEO's and again, those who abuse their authority are in the minority.
Here in Missouri we have had many squid riders in groups on the highway impeding traffic and holding back motorist while their dufus friends do stunts so other riders can shoot videos from their bikes. In one case a minivan was attacked by a group after the driver honked the horn at them. In a seperate incident a squid was "taken out" by a driver who got tired of being tailgated a taunted. The cage operator finally changed lanes in front of the dude while he was in full wheelie on the highway, squid down. The LEO's who responded did reconstruction and judged the act absolutely deliberate. We're waiting for the verdict once it goes thruough court. That verdict won't do the squid or his family any real good since he didn't survive. I think somehow he would have prefered the $1000 fine for his behavior.
The simple facts are these; if we all ask one Question. Did we have less real freedoms on the day of our birth than our parents did? The answer will always be yes. Why then is it so? Simple answer is that government responds to the vote. We as a minority of vehicle operators simply cannot muster enough votes to protect what we see as "our rights". In truth I admit that I do not believe in the right to act like a fool. If I did I would have to defend such behavior as random gunfire in public, tossing concrete blocks from overpasses, and such other dumbarse crap. No one likes to be told how to behave, MYSELF INCLUDED. Simple truth is, if we won't police our own behavior, and we won't, its not human nature to do so. Then its up to local and state LEO's to do it. Freedom of speech allows us to b**ch an complain adnauseum. But the only thing that will protect us from prosecution and persicusion is operating within the law. This means ride responsibly, do what we can to avoid undue suspicious behavior (not always 100% possible) and don't smart mouth law enforcement when we are involved in a traffic stop. If you would like to change this situation, go to the state capital or sit down with your legislator at their office (put away the your attitude) and make an effort to have the penalties section of this ammended. You might be at surprised at your success. Remember to leave your hot headed uncontrolable friends at home that day. If you present a reasonable argument about your concerns and site your good comparison to the automobile penalties you have a real chance. Please remember though, no hotheads, no smart mouths, no cussing. Use the facts you have and don't refer to LEO's as PIGS, and Nazis. When that happens we lose by default. I've spent a lot of time working with these people and these things are not wet in stone they can be changed but it takes effort, time, and knowing what to say and when. I wish you the best because now you have to overcome what could have been a different outcome if some of you could have presented your side calmly during the legislative process.

[Gank]

Originally Posted by MotorCDR

The fine and penalty are determined by the judge, in and only if the jury finds you guilty of the offense.

Not trying to start an argument, but the few times I've been to traffic court, it was not a jury trial. It was only me, the prosecutor, the judge, and the issuing officer. Not very good odds. I've found the best bet is to make a deal with the prosecutor (who really doesn't care what your story is -- they want to know what you're offering). Any time I've had an attorney with me, I've walked out of court with court costs and no charges. (This was "driving on suspended license" charge for an unpaid parking ticket. Whoops. DMV never issued notification of suspension, and I walked.)

That means you've only got to convince ONE PERSON out of THIRTEEN ... and the law says that not only are you not guilty, but the matter ends right then and there, you can't be tried for it again.

As far as juries in criminal trials are concerned, I'm not sure if I have a proper understanding about the legal system. My understanding is that one (or more) dissenting jurors results in a hung jury, not an acquittal. You only get off if the state / prosecutor decides it's not worth it to retry your case, and drop charges. Otherwise, you can get into infinite hung jury trials. Until you have unanimity, you don't have freedom or conviction. A pal of mine in FL endured two hung juries before getting a unanimous verdict. My guess is that, under the statute we're discussing, an improperly mounted tag would be treated as criminal rather than civil, like reckless or careless driving.

Much like speeding (not excessive, just simple speeding, which we've probably all done), the license plate violation is intentional. You know it's bad, but you still do it, right along with the other dozens of cars around you. I acknowledge that I am breaking the law by having my license plate improperly placed, but like minor speeding, I certainly don't feel like a felon as a result. I would prefer not to pay the high penalties or suffer a suspended license for what I consider a very very trivial infraction, so instead I would gladly pay my attorney handsomely to make it go away. I'd never in a million years plead guilty to that charge.

Zealous enforcement of laws like this (the license plate thing, not the reckless stuff) must be seen as heavy handed. I'm not picking on MotorCDR here because he has been awesome about demonstrating the placid, functional, almost unassailable position of LEOs and the law. As MotorCDR has shown, LEOs have the ability to look at a law and say, "That's bollocks." But LEOs aren't there to interpret the laws, just to enforce them as written whether they personally agree or disagree.

[MaxB]

Originally Posted by MotorCDR

This attitude brings us one day closer to seeing motorcycles banned from public roads.

What you see as "a little fun" is seen by the vast majority as DANGEROUS.

Being on a motorcycle is dangerous period. That doesnt stop you does it? Why do you ride? Where else can you find that feeling? Its the same to the stunters they like riding down the highway on one wheel and looking at passersby looking at them in awe.

[Vulcan900]

It's all bullturd!!! I'm going to out to the garage right now and take my plate off so I can go do some wheelies and stoppies while I still can!!!!
.

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(Like my V2K can do a stoppie.)
.
.

[Gank]

^^^ This post is useless without pics and/or video. (Will pay cash for video.)

[The Vulcaniser]

take 2 of these and call me in the morning if the persecution complex continues


If you don't break the law, you won't get fined easy!


can't say i see exactly what the number plate issue is about...... like i said, it's illegal here to have it vertically mounted...... be thankful you aren't looking at having to put a front number plate on like they are wanting to bring in here.......

[Gank]

Originally Posted by The Vulcaniser

can't say i see exactly what the number plate issue is about...... like i said, it's illegal here to have it vertically mounted...... be thankful you aren't looking at having to put a front number plate on like they are wanting to bring in here.......

For me, it is purely aesthetic, and nothing more. I have a black and silver bike with black and silver hard bags. The license plates in NJ are bright yellow-white, and centered against the backdrop of an otherwise dark vehicle, the license plate becomes the most prominent, eye-drawing feature. While I'm sure this was intentionally done on the state's part, to me, it is simply not visually appealing and detracts from the appearance of the motorcycle. Like many motorcycle and car enthusiasts, I feel the visual element of a motorcycle is an enjoyable part of the ownership experience. Moving the plate off to the side and / or vertically mounting the plate restores some of the visual aspects, yet has a very minimal impact on anyone's ability to read the plate with the reported exception of electronic surveillance. To me, it isn't the end of the world, it's simply a personal choice for which I'm willing to take some lumps, and am surprised at the severity of criminal charges associated. You may think, "Wow Drew, what a petty thing to take offense over" and frankly, that's exactly what I think: "Wow, Florida, what a petty thing to take offense over."

Truth be told, if I could get a 2004 / 2005 Delaware tag in black with white lettering, I'd probably not have moved my plate. Maybe if the states started offering color options for an extra $100... Are you reading this, Governor? Here's a little onomatopoeia for you: CHA-CHING!

Delware plate:


Jersey plate: