'93 ZR1100 IC igniter question

TomT · 12-13-2005

I checked the IC igniter and found that the readings with neg on pin no. 8 and pos on pins 1,2,5, and 6 were at 3.8. The high end of the range is 3.6. Anyone know what this would affect?
The bike sputters a little when starting cold, rpm dips when the brake or turn signal is applied, and it runs a bit weak. 13K original garaged, pampered miles. Bike is showroom. Battery is new, alternator, pickup coil, wires, coils, and plugs are fine. Carbs have been adjusted and synched and the plugs look great.
Anyone know if the igniter with these particular high readings would cause what is happening?
I am asking before forking out 3 hundred or more for new igniter. Thanks in advance.

larrycavan · 12-13-2005

Might be the new battery causing the problem. If it was not properly charged up BEFORE you installed it and turned on the key...it's never going to be right. The initial charge is crucial. Too many times I've seen parts guys throw a new battery on for an hour and hand it to a customer.....big no no...

IC igniters generally have to conditions. They work or they don't. Checking with an ohm meter can be an excercise in futility....

I have seen brand new, out of the box igniters that don't test according to the OEM service manual.....been there..done that..

Larry C

TomT · 12-14-2005

Larry, thanks for the reply.
The symptoms were there for years with the 12 year old battery and I could never find the problem. And all other readings on the igniter were dead center of the usable range. Same with the coils, pickup coil, alternator, etc.
Looking at the schematic, it seems that the switches (ignition, side stand, handlebar on/off, brake light, turn signal, headlight, etc.) are wired in parallel with the no. 8 pin of the igniter. And inside the igniter, it seems like a series wiring to the no. 1,2,5, and 6 pins for firing to the coils based on signals coming from the pickup coil. So if the resistance is up from the no. 8 pin to the coil pins, the voltage wouldn't be enough to fire the coils at full spark when other electrics are being operated. That would be consistent with an internal series wiring, where the voltage drop would be proportional to an increase in resistance. Therefore, the dip in rpm when something else electrical is operated would make sense.
That is my theory, based on what I know. I now need an electrical guru to agree or tell me I am full of it.

QKENUF4U · 12-14-2005

from what i just read in your last response, you know more about electrical than most people.

TomT · 12-14-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by QKENUF4U

from what i just read in your last response, you know more about electrical than most people.

I am learning using the braile method, by necessity.

larrycavan · 12-15-2005

First thing I'd do in that situation is start checking grounds and cleaning connections. Check the ground to the engine..yank the bolt, clean the conection...

You're definitely up to the task of getting to the bottom of it.....why not eliminate some of the variables and see what happens....bypass all of the other connections and see if the problem flat goes away...then start reconnecting them one at a time...

Other option would be to get your hands on another IC from a salvage yard and test it...

TomT · 12-15-2005

Larry,
Checked the ground yesterday and it was fine. I think you're right and I will start by disconnecting things and see if there is any change.
But, I get the feeling that the added resistance inside the igniter for the leads going to the coils is where the problem lies.

TomT · 12-30-2005

I replaced the igniter and the bike runs a lot better than it ever did, off idle. At idle, I still could not get it perfect, so in my quest, I recleaned the carbs for the 4th time. Just for grins, I removed the carb holders and to my surprise, there was no o-ring on the no. 2 cylinder where it meets the cylinder head. Appears to have been left off at the factory. This looks like the cause of the unstable idle. I have been chasing this for 3 years and never thought to look at the carb holder.

zedx11 · 12-30-2005

one thing that I was told about checking igniters is that eventho they put the spec's in the book you don't have the same tester they had when they did their test. doesn't make sence to me because a good mac, snapon, fluke should give the same readings.

12-13-2005	#1 (permalink)
TomT Newbie Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Ocala, Fl. Posts: 7	'93 ZR1100 IC igniter question I checked the IC igniter and found that the readings with neg on pin no. 8 and pos on pins 1,2,5, and 6 were at 3.8. The high end of the range is 3.6. Anyone know what this would affect? The bike sputters a little when starting cold, rpm dips when the brake or turn signal is applied, and it runs a bit weak. 13K original garaged, pampered miles. Bike is showroom. Battery is new, alternator, pickup coil, wires, coils, and plugs are fine. Carbs have been adjusted and synched and the plugs look great. Anyone know if the igniter with these particular high readings would cause what is happening? I am asking before forking out 3 hundred or more for new igniter. Thanks in advance.

12-15-2005	#7 (permalink)
TomT Newbie Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Ocala, Fl. Posts: 7	Larry, Checked the ground yesterday and it was fine. I think you're right and I will start by disconnecting things and see if there is any change. But, I get the feeling that the added resistance inside the igniter for the leads going to the coils is where the problem lies. Last edited by TomT : 12-15-2005 at 11:09 AM.

12-13-2005	#2 (permalink)
larrycavan Foil Inspector BTK Beginner Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 114	Might be the new battery causing the problem. If it was not properly charged up BEFORE you installed it and turned on the key...it's never going to be right. The initial charge is crucial. Too many times I've seen parts guys throw a new battery on for an hour and hand it to a customer.....big no no... IC igniters generally have to conditions. They work or they don't. Checking with an ohm meter can be an excercise in futility.... I have seen brand new, out of the box igniters that don't test according to the OEM service manual.....been there..done that.. Larry C

12-14-2005	#3 (permalink)
TomT Newbie Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Ocala, Fl. Posts: 7	Larry, thanks for the reply. The symptoms were there for years with the 12 year old battery and I could never find the problem. And all other readings on the igniter were dead center of the usable range. Same with the coils, pickup coil, alternator, etc. Looking at the schematic, it seems that the switches (ignition, side stand, handlebar on/off, brake light, turn signal, headlight, etc.) are wired in parallel with the no. 8 pin of the igniter. And inside the igniter, it seems like a series wiring to the no. 1,2,5, and 6 pins for firing to the coils based on signals coming from the pickup coil. So if the resistance is up from the no. 8 pin to the coil pins, the voltage wouldn't be enough to fire the coils at full spark when other electrics are being operated. That would be consistent with an internal series wiring, where the voltage drop would be proportional to an increase in resistance. Therefore, the dip in rpm when something else electrical is operated would make sense. That is my theory, based on what I know. I now need an electrical guru to agree or tell me I am full of it.

12-14-2005	#4 (permalink)
QKENUF4U AZ's Official Mechanic BTK Expert Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: lake havasu city arizona Posts: 4,551	from what i just read in your last response, you know more about electrical than most people.

12-15-2005	#6 (permalink)
larrycavan Foil Inspector BTK Beginner Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 114	First thing I'd do in that situation is start checking grounds and cleaning connections. Check the ground to the engine..yank the bolt, clean the conection... You're definitely up to the task of getting to the bottom of it.....why not eliminate some of the variables and see what happens....bypass all of the other connections and see if the problem flat goes away...then start reconnecting them one at a time... Other option would be to get your hands on another IC from a salvage yard and test it...

12-30-2005	#8 (permalink)
TomT Newbie Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Ocala, Fl. Posts: 7	I replaced the igniter and the bike runs a lot better than it ever did, off idle. At idle, I still could not get it perfect, so in my quest, I recleaned the carbs for the 4th time. Just for grins, I removed the carb holders and to my surprise, there was no o-ring on the no. 2 cylinder where it meets the cylinder head. Appears to have been left off at the factory. This looks like the cause of the unstable idle. I have been chasing this for 3 years and never thought to look at the carb holder.

12-30-2005	#9 (permalink)
zedx11 Banned BTK Expert Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 22,566	one thing that I was told about checking igniters is that eventho they put the spec's in the book you don't have the same tester they had when they did their test. doesn't make sence to me because a good mac, snapon, fluke should give the same readings.

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