Shifting to neutral problem - 250 Sherpa

olbooker · 05-11-2006

I'm having an occasional problem while shifting in the upper gears on this '02 Sherpa/KL250G6. It doesn't happen regularly, but once in a while, it will go neutral while shifting up. Seems to be 4-5 or 5-6. Pulling up again always advances the gear. I never imagined it was possible to go neutral once past 2nd gear.

Hopefully, there is nothing major happening and it is just wearing in... I can hope can't I?

Mileage is right around 600 miles, at this point. Hasn't had it's first service yet and it is planned for tomorrow (Fri.).

Any ideas or has anyone else experienced this?

Thanks

olbooker · 05-14-2006

Any ideas at all? On any cycle transmission... Am I looking at pending failure or is it somehow possible to go neutral by not shifting all the way into an upper gear?

Johnny O. · 05-16-2006

I wish I could help ya but haven’t come across this one yet. My post is just to bump you up and keep it where other peps can see your question.
OBTW do you have a service manual?

olbooker · 05-16-2006

Thanks for the reply Johnny. No manual yet... I want to buy some riding gear first and then I do plan on buying a factory manual. I did change the oil last Friday (first change) and so far it hasn't happened again. I did notice 6th gear was a little stiff going in once, this week. Other than that, it seems to be behaving for now. I just don't understand how it could go neutral at that point.

I do have an old Elsinore that is disassembled. Maybe I'll take a look at the trans parts for some understanding... probably isn't too dissimilar from the Kaw.

wiredgeorge · 05-18-2006

I hate to make guesses because I have no idea what a 250 sherpa is. Is this a motorcycle? If it is, or has a motorcycle type transmission, there is little that could cause your problem in the transmission itself. It is more likely in the external shift mechanism. The shifter moves two arms, called PAWLS which grab pins on the shift drum. Neutral is just another pin and on older KZ900s/1000s, this pin is oriented at 8 oclock on the shift drum. The only way, a shift to neutral could occur from one of the top gears is if the shift pawls were bent a bit or the spring that pulls them towards each other were not springing. These pawls have little fingers on the ends that catch the pins and just rotate the drum. It isn't possible to normally rotate from 4th or 5th to neutral as those pins are not adjacent to neutral so the most likely thing is that the pawls are just sort of skipping over the necessary pins and grabbing the neutral pin. To look at this mess, you will need to take off the engine cover on your bike's right side that has the shifter going through it. On a bike, you also have to remove the inner sprocket cover but under that, you can easily see if the shift pawls are bent or the spring that keeps them pushing towards themselves is broken or something. I had a problem like this once when using the incorrect shifter return spring... this is the spring that goes over the shifter itself and causes it to bounce back up. The normal Z1 or KZ900 spring has three loops where the shifter passes through. The spring I used was identical except it had four loops. This spaced it out about 1/16" too far and the pawls would just grab the correct pins sometimes and sometimes would miss and grab the wrong pin and shift into neutral... Make sure they look at the external shift mechanism when they do the 600 mile service. Oh yeah, up in the corner of the external shift mechanism is a keeper that keeps the drum locked in place. It is shaped like a boomerang and there is a spring that returns it after a shift so a shift can only go one position on the drum. If the spring is missing or the mechanism is buggered, the bike could shift as yours does (false neutrals).

olbooker · 05-18-2006

Hey George... Thanks for the info. I'm going to wait until I have a factory manual before digging into this. The previous owner had flipped this bike (on his motor vehicle test ride) and damaged the LR turn signal and the left foot peg. Possible this might have caused some damage. So far, it is behaving, but today it didn't seem to want to shift from neutral to first once in a while.

BTW, the Super Sherpa really is a motorcycle... a dual-sport.

05-11-2006	#1 (permalink)
olbooker Forum Supporter Forum Supporter Join Date: May 2006 Location: NE AZ Posts: 104	Shifting to neutral problem - 250 Sherpa I'm having an occasional problem while shifting in the upper gears on this '02 Sherpa/KL250G6. It doesn't happen regularly, but once in a while, it will go neutral while shifting up. Seems to be 4-5 or 5-6. Pulling up again always advances the gear. I never imagined it was possible to go neutral once past 2nd gear. Hopefully, there is nothing major happening and it is just wearing in... I can hope can't I? Mileage is right around 600 miles, at this point. Hasn't had it's first service yet and it is planned for tomorrow (Fri.). Any ideas or has anyone else experienced this? Thanks

05-16-2006	#3 (permalink)
Johnny O. Turtle Wax Taster BTK Intermediate Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Germany Posts: 180	I wish I could help ya but haven’t come across this one yet. My post is just to bump you up and keep it where other peps can see your question. OBTW do you have a service manual? __________________ Trailers are a sickness. Ride it! http://www.hoverspot.com/242585

05-18-2006	#5 (permalink)
wiredgeorge Vintage Motor Mechanic! BTK Expert Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 504	I hate to make guesses because I have no idea what a 250 sherpa is. Is this a motorcycle? If it is, or has a motorcycle type transmission, there is little that could cause your problem in the transmission itself. It is more likely in the external shift mechanism. The shifter moves two arms, called PAWLS which grab pins on the shift drum. Neutral is just another pin and on older KZ900s/1000s, this pin is oriented at 8 oclock on the shift drum. The only way, a shift to neutral could occur from one of the top gears is if the shift pawls were bent a bit or the spring that pulls them towards each other were not springing. These pawls have little fingers on the ends that catch the pins and just rotate the drum. It isn't possible to normally rotate from 4th or 5th to neutral as those pins are not adjacent to neutral so the most likely thing is that the pawls are just sort of skipping over the necessary pins and grabbing the neutral pin. To look at this mess, you will need to take off the engine cover on your bike's right side that has the shifter going through it. On a bike, you also have to remove the inner sprocket cover but under that, you can easily see if the shift pawls are bent or the spring that keeps them pushing towards themselves is broken or something. I had a problem like this once when using the incorrect shifter return spring... this is the spring that goes over the shifter itself and causes it to bounce back up. The normal Z1 or KZ900 spring has three loops where the shifter passes through. The spring I used was identical except it had four loops. This spaced it out about 1/16" too far and the pawls would just grab the correct pins sometimes and sometimes would miss and grab the wrong pin and shift into neutral... Make sure they look at the external shift mechanism when they do the 600 mile service. Oh yeah, up in the corner of the external shift mechanism is a keeper that keeps the drum locked in place. It is shaped like a boomerang and there is a spring that returns it after a shift so a shift can only go one position on the drum. If the spring is missing or the mechanism is buggered, the bike could shift as yours does (false neutrals). __________________ wiredgeorge Mico, TX

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05-14-2006	#2 (permalink)
olbooker Forum Supporter Forum Supporter Join Date: May 2006 Location: NE AZ Posts: 104	Any ideas at all? On any cycle transmission... Am I looking at pending failure or is it somehow possible to go neutral by not shifting all the way into an upper gear?

05-16-2006	#4 (permalink)
olbooker Forum Supporter Forum Supporter Join Date: May 2006 Location: NE AZ Posts: 104	Thanks for the reply Johnny. No manual yet... I want to buy some riding gear first and then I do plan on buying a factory manual. I did change the oil last Friday (first change) and so far it hasn't happened again. I did notice 6th gear was a little stiff going in once, this week. Other than that, it seems to be behaving for now. I just don't understand how it could go neutral at that point. I do have an old Elsinore that is disassembled. Maybe I'll take a look at the trans parts for some understanding... probably isn't too dissimilar from the Kaw.

05-18-2006	#6 (permalink)
olbooker Forum Supporter Forum Supporter Join Date: May 2006 Location: NE AZ Posts: 104	Hey George... Thanks for the info. I'm going to wait until I have a factory manual before digging into this. The previous owner had flipped this bike (on his motor vehicle test ride) and damaged the LR turn signal and the left foot peg. Possible this might have caused some damage. So far, it is behaving, but today it didn't seem to want to shift from neutral to first once in a while. BTW, the Super Sherpa really is a motorcycle... a dual-sport.

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