KDX 200 (1984) start problem

[thomasdepaepe]

Hi,
I've bought a kdx 200, with a problem. When you try to start it with the kickstarter it won't work. But when you push it, it will start. Now I'm thinking that the CDI unit or bobine don't get enough Voltage. But i can be wrong. So my question now is, can it be not enough voltage, and how do you check it ( how many does it normal have), and how you can fix it. If it's maybe something else, I also like to hear it.

Thanks in advanced.

Thomas

[QKENUF4U]

Hi,
I've bought a kdx 200, with a problem. When you try to start it with the kickstarter it won't work. But when you push it, it will start. Now I'm thinking that the CDI unit or bobine don't get enough Voltage. But i can be wrong. So my question now is, can it be not enough voltage, and how do you check it ( how many does it normal have), and how you can fix it. If it's maybe something else, I also like to hear it.

Thanks in advanced.

Thomas

first if it starts IT IS NOT THE CDI
second WTF is a BOBINE ?
im not sure if the KDX is an AC-CDI or DC-CDI , does it have a small battery or no battery at all ?
does the light light up when you kick it ?
are you sure you turned the key on , kill switch on ?

[thomasdepaepe]

Hi,
I've bought a kdx 200, with a problem. When you try to start it with the kickstarter it won't work. But when you push it, it will start. Now I'm thinking that the CDI unit or bobine don't get enough Voltage. But i can be wrong. So my question now is, can it be not enough voltage, and how do you check it ( how many does it normal have), and how you can fix it. If it's maybe something else, I also like to hear it.

Thanks in advanced.

Thomas

first if it starts IT IS NOT THE CDI
second WTF is a BOBINE ?
im not sure if the KDX is an AC-CDI or DC-CDI , does it have a small battery or no battery at all ?
does the light light up when you kick it ?
are you sure you turned the key on , kill switch on ?

The CDI unit himself is ok, I know thats not that.

The "bobine" is the device that transform the 12V to the voltage for your spark plug( in dutch called Bobijn, so I thought in englisch bobine, because I do not know an other word for the Bobine, I will use it in the lower text.)

The spark plug need a minimume voltage to ignite the air/fuel mixture. It is possible that there is not enough energy to ignite the mixture however you can see the blue pulse on the spark plug.
So what I thout was that when you kick, during the short time it doesn't make enough voltage. But when you push the bike it's maybe possible that the bike can make a stable voltage and nevertheless starts.
I can check the voltage over the "bobine" but I don't know what the ideal voltage is to compare with. I haven't tested it yet because I do not have device to measure it so I don't know whats it is on the moment.

The bike doesn't have a battery, thats why I think it could be unstable.
I don't know if it's a AC or DC CDI unit, how can you see that.

The lite doesn't light up, but thats because the bad wiring. But the engine runs so it can't be any switch. It only starts when you push the bike, not with the kick. And because thats not possible alone I like to solve this.

Srr for my bad english and I hope you can make something out of it. The thing I describe above is what I thought, but i'm totaly not sure, so i asked here. It could be totaly something else.

thanx

[QKENUF4U]

[quote="thomasdepaepe"][quote="QKENUF4U"]

The CDI unit himself is ok, I know thats not that. -good we agree on that

The "bobine" is the device that transform the 12V to the voltage for your spark plug( in dutch called Bobijn, so I thought in englisch bobine, because I do not know an other word for the Bobine, I will use it in the lower text.) -this sounds like the COIL if its the coil i dont think that would cause it either since it runs fine being push started

The spark plug need a minimume voltage to ignite the air/fuel mixture. It is possible that there is not enough energy to ignite the mixture however you can see the blue pulse on the spark plug. -is it a nice big spark or very light/weak spark ?

So what I thout was that when you kick, during the short time it doesn't make enough voltage. But when you push the bike it's maybe possible that the bike can make a stable voltage and nevertheless starts.
I can check the voltage over the "bobine" but I don't know what the ideal voltage is to compare with. I haven't tested it yet because I do not have device to measure it so I don't know whats it is on the moment. -figure out the part name and i can tell you how to check it. i think your talking about the coil but dont know for sure ? you will need a multi-meter to test the coil

The bike doesn't have a battery, thats why I think it could be unstable.
I don't know if it's a AC or DC CDI unit, how can you see that. -since it doesnt have a battery it is considered an AC CDI

Srr for my bad english and I hope you can make something out of it. The thing I describe above is what I thought, but i'm totaly not sure, so i asked here. It could be totaly something else. -your english isnt too bad. i understand most of what your saying other BOBINE ???

thanx

HEY is this the BOBINE your talking about #21121 on this pic
http://www.ronayers.com/fiche/400_03...ion_system.cfm
-your welcome, hope i can help

[thomasdepaepe]

[quote="QKENUF4U"][quote="thomasdepaepe"]

The CDI unit himself is ok, I know thats not that. -good we agree on that

The "bobine" is the device that transform the 12V to the voltage for your spark plug( in dutch called Bobijn, so I thought in englisch bobine, because I do not know an other word for the Bobine, I will use it in the lower text.) -this sounds like the COIL if its the coil i dont think that would cause it either since it runs fine being push started

The spark plug need a minimume voltage to ignite the air/fuel mixture. It is possible that there is not enough energy to ignite the mixture however you can see the blue pulse on the spark plug. -is it a nice big spark or very light/weak spark ?

So what I thout was that when you kick, during the short time it doesn't make enough voltage. But when you push the bike it's maybe possible that the bike can make a stable voltage and nevertheless starts.
I can check the voltage over the "bobine" but I don't know what the ideal voltage is to compare with. I haven't tested it yet because I do not have device to measure it so I don't know whats it is on the moment. -figure out the part name and i can tell you how to check it. i think your talking about the coil but dont know for sure ? you will need a multi-meter to test the coil

The bike doesn't have a battery, thats why I think it could be unstable.
I don't know if it's a AC or DC CDI unit, how can you see that. -since it doesnt have a battery it is considered an AC CDI

Srr for my bad english and I hope you can make something out of it. The thing I describe above is what I thought, but i'm totaly not sure, so i asked here. It could be totaly something else. -your english isnt too bad. i understand most of what your saying other BOBINE ???

thanx

HEY is this the BOBINE your talking about #21121 on this pic
http://www.ronayers.com/fiche/400_03...ion_system.cfm
-your welcome, hope i can help

Firstly thank you very muych for the help.

The picture you have showen is the bobine where I' was talking about. From now on I cal it Coil

The spark plug gives a rather weak spark.
And I have a multimeter to check the coil. If you can explain me how to do that, that would be nice.

So if it's a AC-CDI than its no option to hook up a battery, if the voltage is not enough during kicking..

Thanks Thomas,

(Now of to circuit of Spa Francourchamp to watch the 1000 km of spa, with verry Cool Lemans Cars )

[QKENUF4U]

The picture you have showen is the bobine where I' was talking about. From now on I cal it Coil excellent, now we are on the same page

The spark plug gives a rather weak spark.
And I have a multimeter to check the coil. If you can explain me how to do that, that would be nice. -if its sparking i dont think its the coil , its else where in the ignition system. send me a email to smelan656@cs.com and ill send you the info on checking your coil. sounds like your stator may be weak and not providing enough voltage to the coil. it just happens to spin fast enough push starting it to generate enough voltage to make a bigger spark, you can check this also. will have to look up some info for you

So if it's a AC-CDI than its no option to hook up a battery, if the voltage is not enough during kicking.. -no option to hook a battery up

Now of to circuit of Spa Francourchamp to watch the 1000 km of spa, with verry Cool Lemans Cars ) -im jelous

[/b]

couple things i need to know before i can explain the testing to you.
HOW MANY WIRES DO YOU HAVE COMING OFF THE COIL 1 OR 2 ? (these are the plug in type connectors) even a pic would be cool to help me identify internal or external ground (take a pic with it on the bike)

[ZX-2R]

Stick with him QKENUF4U...sounds like you are getting things straightened out. I suspect you will find that the Stator (rotor) whatever you want to call it is weak. It could even be a problem with rust, even some types of dust...but it sounds weak. Good thing you are tackling this problem and not me...I did figure out the coil (a step-up transformer from Voltage to step it up to a higher voltage for spark. I might suggest that the spark plugs be changed...(just like our plugs on our bikes once you get ANY carbon fouling it makes starting difficult...besides it never hurts to have a spare set, or even using an older set to test the problem...FWIW, you are doing a great job! ?does this bike have a Neutral safety switch? ust a thought...

[thomasdepaepe]

Stick with him QKENUF4U...sounds like you are getting things straightened out. I suspect you will find that the Stator (rotor) whatever you want to call it is weak. It could even be a problem with rust, even some types of dust...but it sounds weak. Good thing you are tackling this problem and not me...I did figure out the coil (a step-up transformer from Voltage to step it up to a higher voltage for spark. I might suggest that the spark plugs be changed...(just like our plugs on our bikes once you get ANY carbon fouling it makes starting difficult...besides it never hurts to have a spare set, or even using an older set to test the problem...FWIW, you are doing a great job! ?does this bike have a Neutral safety switch? ust a thought...

I`ve tried 2 new sparkplugs and it makes now difference. I`ve also a spare coil and I tried this one and it makes also no difference.
I don`t think I have a neutral safety switch, how can you notice that and what effect could that have to my starter problem?
I rather think that it is something with stator like QKENUF4U said. But I`ve no id how to solve this and how difficult this is. I have an other KDX for spare parts so I can use some parts from that bike.

[ZX-2R]

Some bikes have a Neutral safety switch where you cannot start the bike unless it is in neutral with the clutch out. If the clutch is pulled in, the bike won't start. sometimes the switch gets dirty and doesn't make a good clean contact...I think that qkenenuf is going down the right road of procedures to help you nad I do not wish to interupt his progress and have you going in different directions,,,I think he has you almost finished...sometimes going into the stator you can take a very fine sand paper and then clean it so that if ther is any dust or oxidation it removes it...then you would have to really blow the dust particles out because theyare conductive enough to rob you of power. Also you might try running the bike in the dark to see if you have any spark gapping like from the coil the sparkplug wires and or to theframe from anywhere. this can usually only be done in the very dark area and looking hard for blue or even yellow sparks. Use plastic gloves and move the wires and things around to see if you see any stray voltage...

[QKENUF4U]

hey ZX-2R
its a dirt bike so im 99.9 positive theres no neutral safety on this bike. never had one on any of the dirtbikes ive ever seen.

and i was slowly but surely working THOMAS down to the stator. i dont have a book to tell him which wires to test though. thats the problem.


THOMAS- under the small 6-8" cover w/ 4-6 bolts on the LEFT (should be the left) is a piece called a stator, it generates the voltage/amps for your bike. i dont know how many phase this bike is, plus i think this bike may have low speed/high speed coils without the book i cant help much more other than you need to test the OUTPUT of the stator and do some resistance tests to the components under that cover. you can test this all right from the wires the will come from that cover. i dont know the wire colors for each component, thats why ya need a manual.
the reason i wanted to see your coil was because i can tell you how to test that to make sure its not weak/failing inside.
im pretty much out of info at this time because i dont have the bike in front of me. sorry man. might have to hit a shop up and have them check the stuff for ya.

[thomasdepaepe]

hey ZX-2R
its a dirt bike so im 99.9 positive theres no neutral safety on this bike. never had one on any of the dirtbikes ive ever seen.

and i was slowly but surely working THOMAS down to the stator. i dont have a book to tell him which wires to test though. thats the problem.


THOMAS- under the small 6-8" cover w/ 4-6 bolts on the LEFT (should be the left) is a piece called a stator, it generates the voltage/amps for your bike. i dont know how many phase this bike is, plus i think this bike may have low speed/high speed coils without the book i cant help much more other than you need to test the OUTPUT of the stator and do some resistance tests to the components under that cover. you can test this all right from the wires the will come from that cover. i dont know the wire colors for each component, thats why ya need a manual.
the reason i wanted to see your coil was because i can tell you how to test that to make sure its not weak/failing inside.
im pretty much out of info at this time because i dont have the bike in front of me. sorry man. might have to hit a shop up and have them check the stuff for ya.

Thank you for the help you have given me. I`m going to look for a manuel of this bike. And now I know were to look for. I`m going to measure the stator when the bike is running and when kicking. And see what the diffence is. And if that is the problem I wil try to clean it. and hopely will it work.
I`ll let you know how it progresses.

Thomas

[QKENUF4U]

your gonna get a WAY different reading if you compare it to kicking or running. one will give you a # that fluctuates all over the place (kicking) while the other will give you a solid # (running) get a manual and see what it says the output should be.
also ya need to find out if this bike has a low speed and high speed coils or if its got a pickup coil ? i dont know for sure. the book should explain how to test them also.
good luck

[JasonWho]

If it won't crank with the kickstarter, then it makes me wonder if there is something wrong with the kickstarter. Is there?

You should look on www.buykawasaki.com to see the parts diagrams for your bike. It will show the part names in English.

You should look for the Kawasaki "Owner's Manual & Service Manual". It is one book. You can also look for a Clymer service manual for the 1983 - 1988 KDX200's, like the one I have right here.

The Clymer manual has a good bit of information on testing the electrical parts. For example, on the stator coil, it lists:

Black wire to blue wire - 104 ohms
Black to white/red - 38 ohms
Blue to white/red - 142 ohms
Black to yellow - .54 ohms

This is tested on the bike, with the engine off and wires unplugged.

For info's sake, there is no key, no neutral switch, no battery and it is AC voltage.

[budgie1965]

Ive got an 84 kdx and i had the same starting problems
i dont have a battery and its not road licensable anymore i took all the shizz off
and i solved the problem by putting a new stator in it and it runs shweet now

8D


my only problem now is with my front forks squeaking

and i hopefully will fix the problem by changing the oil but i need to know how much to put in