Loss of tanker deal to French/Germans

[BikerBeagle]

No more U.S. Military ...it looks like the French and Germans will protect us from now on.

Kansas.com | 03/01/2008 | Boeing tanker loss leads to anger, disbelief

Some of you may not be aware that the Air Force awarded a lucrative contract to Northrup Grumman / European Aeronautic Defence and Space Company (EADS, parent company to Airbus) last week, but in my world, this is big news and a lot of people are simply livid about it.

I've done a lot of research on the matter. There are points to each side, some good, some bad, and I could probably debate both perspectives equally ...but, no matter how this pie gets sliced, I keep coming back to the fact that our Air Force just awarded the building of military equipment to a FOREIGN ENTITY.

It is possible that The Boeing Co. lost fair and square to the superior characteristics of the A330-based tanker -on paper- and Alabama is supposed to benefit from *some* of the assembly work, but the fact of the matter is, EADS is a foreign company (...they don't even have a U.S. presence yet -which I'm convinced is the entire purpose of their 'partnership' with Northrup Grumman), the majority of the work and money -paid with our taxes- will break land speed records heading across the pond with very little benefit to the U.S. or the American people.

I'm certainly not arguing that Boeing should have won no matter what ...but, pretty stupid move on the part of the Air Force when the country is facing a major recession. What ever happened to "taking care of our own"? Where's the loyalty, Air Force?!?

And so, in 2013, you will finally get to see it all ...an airplane proudly displaying an American flag, flown by American pilots, and built by the French ...or, I hope it's still the American flag by then. It could very well be the MexicanGermanFrenchAmerican flag.

I hope I die before then.

[Spok]

i am VERY aware of this deal.


lots to conted with. the unions in America are calling for congressional blockage of the deal. the Unions in france are not happy with the work to be done in the us.

The cost of the Boeing airplane is $35 million less each than the EADS one...enough to buy 50 more tankers.

its not all said and done with yet....i watch this one with a keen eye

[trikebubble]

You can't have your cake and eat it too. We live in a global economy, and if we (well you in this case) want to sell your goods to other countries, you have to be prepared to live with purchasing goods (regardless of the goods)from other countries.

Individual deals may very well be flawed, but the blame can't lay any further than the deal itself.

[Spok]

It is possible that The Boeing Co. lost fair and square to the superior characteristics of the A330-based tanker -on paper-

the RFP was originally written for an airplane the size of the Boeing offering, the 767. in the final two weeks of the process, they changed key components of the bid to allow the larger A-330 competitor. Boeing bid the RFP, Airbus didn't.

and Alabama is supposed to benefit from *some* of the assembly work, but the fact of the matter is, EADS is a foreign company

the A-330 freighters will be assembled in Alabama. Some new jobs will be created however the Boeing Built product would've created as many as 40,000 new jobs in the US.

(...they don't even have a U.S. presence yet -which I'm convinced is the entire purpose of their 'partnership' with Northrup Grumman), the majority of the work and money -paid with our taxes- will break land speed records heading across the pond with very little benefit to the U.S. or the American people.

When France sent out proposals for one of their military aircraft, they stated that it must be a French built aircraft. Boeing would not have been allowed to bid on the work. Unfair?

I'm certainly not arguing that Boeing should have won no matter what ...but, pretty stupid move on the part of the Air Force when the country is facing a major recession. What ever happened to "taking care of our own"? Where's the loyalty, Air Force?!?

At the announcement on friday, they never mentioned EADS (parent of Airbus) but continually referred to Nothrup Grumman...trying to say that it is an american company (using foreign equipment)

BTW...the A-330 was developed with the aid of government subsidies to Airbus, many protests have been lodged with the WTO in regards to the unfair practices that Airbus opeates under where Boeing or any other American company has to compete by themselves without government aid.



And so, in 2013, you will finally get to see it all ...an airplane proudly displaying an American flag, flown by American pilots, and built by the French ...or, I hope it's still the American flag by then. It could very well be the MexicanGermanFrenchAmerican flag.

So..

In the future when France doesn't like a foreign policy or defence issue taken by the US, will they not send us the replacement parts needed for our foreign built tanker fleet?

[BikerBeagle]

the A-330 freighters will be assembled in Alabama. Some new jobs will be created however the Boeing Built product would've created as many as 40,000 new jobs in the US.

I don't remember reading anything specific, but I never got the impression that the entire tanker would be entirely assembled in Alabama ...'assembled' to military specifications, probably, but I'd think the basic plane itself would likely be built in Europe and flown over intact for conversion.

The highest estimate of jobs to Boeing if they had won that I can remember reading was in the neighborhood of a few thousand, most in the Washington area ...40,000 seems like an awful lot for one plane (that they already make and have made for quite some time). I know that only 600 or so would be added here to the Wichita plant.

When France sent out proposals for one of their military aircraft, they stated that it must be a French built aircraft. Boeing would not have been allowed to bid on the work. Unfair?

That's just the kind of thing I'm getting at, Spok. I'm all for playing in the global market, but we aren't playing on a level field here. The U.S. Government opens their bids to anyone and everyone (or so it seems), but other governments continuously lock out our businesses from the get-go. I know that the company I work for was trying to buy one of the on the market Airbus facilities in Europe some time ago and was basically told, "no we don't want Americans here!". That's BS.

[Spok]

the total number of jobs estimate is 40,000. those are not boeing specific jobs but external vendor jobs as well.

the french unions at airbus are livid that the plane will be assembled in alabama. the pieces and parts will be built in france but will be shipped here for final assembly.

[skipsaxe]

Here in CT we had the same issue last year when Sikorsky Aircraft lost the Presidental Helicopter contract to an Italian company. Everyone around here was up in arms as well, but like most of these things, nothing has ever come of it.

I'm of the opion that political pressure has been put on the present administration to take care of our allies by allowing them to bid on DOD contracts. I'm not saying it's right, but being in that industry myself...it's what I believe.

[Spok]

Originally Posted by skipsaxe

Here in CT we had the same issue last year when Sikorsky Aircraft lost the Presidental Helicopter contract to an Italian company. Everyone around here was up in arms as well, but like most of these things, nothing has ever come of it.

I'm of the opion that political pressure has been put on the present administration to take care of our allies by allowing them to bid on DOD contracts. I'm not saying it's right, but being in that industry myself...it's what I believe.

i watched the press conference friday and you might be right. they kept saying this is good for the airforce and our allies...?

[skipsaxe]

Just the way they are touting the Grumman connection just makes it seem so political. My problem with it, is France. Not only did they turn and run in Iraq (history repeating) but they think we Americans build crap. I do business with a French manufacturer and they are condesending at best.

[NCDave]

Originally Posted by BikerBeagle

No more U.S. Military ...it looks like the French and Germans will protect us from now on.

Kansas.com | 03/01/2008 | Boeing tanker loss leads to anger, disbelief

Some of you may not be aware that the Air Force awarded a lucrative contract to Northrup Grumman / European Aeronautic Defence and Space Company (EADS, parent company to Airbus) last week, but in my world, this is big news and a lot of people are simply livid about it.

I've done a lot of research on the matter. There are points to each side, some good, some bad, and I could probably debate both perspectives equally ...but, no matter how this pie gets sliced, I keep coming back to the fact that our Air Force just awarded the building of military equipment to a FOREIGN ENTITY.

It is possible that The Boeing Co. lost fair and square to the superior characteristics of the A330-based tanker -on paper- and Alabama is supposed to benefit from *some* of the assembly work, but the fact of the matter is, EADS is a foreign company (...they don't even have a U.S. presence yet -which I'm convinced is the entire purpose of their 'partnership' with Northrup Grumman), the majority of the work and money -paid with our taxes- will break land speed records heading across the pond with very little benefit to the U.S. or the American people.

I'm certainly not arguing that Boeing should have won no matter what ...but, pretty stupid move on the part of the Air Force when the country is facing a major recession. What ever happened to "taking care of our own"? Where's the loyalty, Air Force?!?

And so, in 2013, you will finally get to see it all ...an airplane proudly displaying an American flag, flown by American pilots, and built by the French ...or, I hope it's still the American flag by then. It could very well be the MexicanGermanFrenchAmerican flag.

I hope I die before then.

so, you said you could argue both sides....what's the counter point to your comments above?

[fretbuzz]

It's a matter of Dubya's connection with the Bilderberg Group and his one-world ideology.

Unfortunately this contract is not the only one that is in foreign hands.

[Ruger]

Originally Posted by skipsaxe

Here in CT we had the same issue last year when Sikorsky Aircraft lost the Presidental Helicopter contract to an Italian company. Everyone around here was up in arms as well, but like most of these things, nothing has ever come of it.

I'm of the opion that political pressure has been put on the present administration to take care of our allies by allowing them to bid on DOD contracts. I'm not saying it's right, but being in that industry myself...it's what I believe.

I don't think France has been one of our "allies" for some time.

[james t. kirk]

This situation SUCKS big time.

The United States Of America, does not need a foreign contry to build our Military acft.

It is bad enough that the Coast Guard flys French helicopters. We have plenty of good aviation technology right here! Damnit.

I could give a flying frak about a Global economy. This is politics against Boeing. A company that has a long history of defending this Country. They ****ed off some politicians in recent years, and this award is just a way of saying "up yours" by the powers that be.

Airbus acft suck!!! They are a piece of crap, IMO.

[kartshan]

I don't think it's so bad. Modern aircraft building is a joint effort of several companies and the big aircraft builders fan out the manufacture of subsystems to other companies anyway. IIRC the composite wings for the 787 Dreamliner were made by Mitsubishi or Fuji Heavy Industries in Japan and by a recently concluded deal the cabin or something like that will be built by TATA of India. So even though the tanker may be Airbus in name it will still have P&W or GE engines and electronic subsystems by Northrop and other US contractors and so on. From what I understand the final assembly will be in Alabama. So most of the money will remain in the US. I don't think even if Boeing got the contract they will be buying all the subsystems in the US. So it all evens out eventually.

[antiq]

Why not! Everything else is getting flushed.

[elr658]

We should NOT be outsourcing our defense industry. Especially to the damn FRENCH. Rude ****ers. (my last name is LaVallee which is French) They can't make a car to save their own life. (look how they f'ed up Nissan) I'd rather fly an Ironhead Sportster. We're ABDICATING our world technological leadership, for what? A BUNCH OF PEOPLE WHO STAB THE US IN THE BACK AT EVERY POSSIBLE OPPORTUNITY???

[SilverEagle]

Well, just as bad as the new light infantry rifle replacing the M16 was won by FNH with their SCAR rifle. Does something looks like outsourcing of the US military. What is next, tanks built in China with built in charges for detonation if we ever will have an armed situation with them?

[Cruz]

All military product should be made in the US.
I can't believe we're outsourcing our nation security.
I just hope they can safe guard our secretes while their building these things, some how I doubt it.

[SilverEagle]

Originally Posted by Cruz

All military product should be made in the US.
I can't believe we're outsourcing our nation security.
I just hope they can safe guard our secretes while their building these things, some how I doubt it.

Nope, the politicians we the people elect will just screw us harder from this point forward.............and do not expect any Vaseline.

[Cruz]

Originally Posted by SilverEagle

Nope, the politicians we the people elect will just screw us harder from this point forward.............and do not expect any Vaseline.

Hard to argue against that. All these other countries have to is take in the contracts wait for the USA to close and dismantle the factories then refuse to supply us and BAM we are left with out the proper weaponry to defend ourselves.