Anybody following the global financial meltdown?

[RichLockyer]

Hasn't had any impact on my financial position or retirement plans.

I'm broke
I'll work until the day I die.

[barry5k]

The punk who robs a bank, gang banger who shoots a baby through a window, the meth freak who rips you off then kills you for a dollar, and the top executives who rip off good, hard working people = no difference!

[koga]

+1

[Nomadken]

I own a manufacturing company in Illinois. If I did a poor job of managing my business and let it crash like these other big boys have done I wouldn't run to the Federal Government for help.
After all, you and I are the federal government. It's of the people and by the people.
Too many liberals want to raise taxes and give the money that hard working Americans actually earn to people who set on their butts doing nothing but voting to empower those who preach a message of hope only to keep these same people in bondage long after theyv'e been set free from slavery.

Bottom line is we lost control with President Wilson and the Federal Reserve.
Soon there after the United Nations and the mess that communist thing is.

Watch your pocket books boys, their coming for your money.

[The Vulcaniser]

from my understanding of it, it is mostly because of the collapse in home loan repayments and mortgage foreclosures over there. From what i read, it was far too easy for people to borrow to buy a home when they could not afford to pay for it. Not overly sure of the full story..... but as the saying goes... when the U.S sneezes, the whole world catches a cold...... we all have runny noses over here.

[jay08]

AIG has it's fingers in everything worldwide thats why the gov bailed them out . If they didn't and some argue not it would have been instant stone age in a financial sense. And anyone who thinks you cant be touched by this it's gonna smack you right in the face. Next thing to watch all and any unsecured debt ie credit cards and anything thats no fixed will be going up even if you have perfect credit. So many loans and lines of credit went bad from people that should have never been givin the credit in the first place went south. Now everyone who pays there debt will be paying for the banks trust in people. Just think how many people out there are living check to check still paying all there bills like the rats we are lol chasing the cheese. Now all of a sudden there bills double and once again makes millions of new people bankrupt. There talking unemployment numbers in the 8% range. But if you can pull through this there will mayjor deflation comming in the future it the country doesn't rip itself apart by then lol . If it says anything I know a bunch of people that are considering going bankrupt if it gets any worse and they are well off. Cash talks bs walks. If the financial markets die i wont be the last sucker paying bs bills when i could be stocking up cash in the bank or under my bed in a shoe box lol. Hold on to your pantyhose because they are comming after your money. It gonna get way worse what the gov is doing now are just bandades. It more like financial triage the ones thats can be saved will be and companies that are really bleeding will be let alone to die and if you do buisness with the dieng companies you sure as chit ar gonna feel it. Ps i will be making my tinfoil hat later tonight lol.

[RichLockyer]

Originally Posted by The Vulcaniser

from my understanding of it, it is mostly because of the collapse in home loan repayments and mortgage foreclosures over there. From what i read, it was far too easy for people to borrow to buy a home when they could not afford to pay for it. Not overly sure of the full story..... but as the saying goes... when the U.S sneezes, the whole world catches a cold...... we all have runny noses over here.

Bingo.

Fanny Mae and Freddie Mac were literally "founded" by the Fed, and were given the goal of putting every American in their own home.
Derivatives were developed as a way to spread the risk, and people were given 1% teaser rates and interest-only loans where they were able to purchase a 500k home for $500/month for the first 1-3 years.

Regulations weren't really loosened... it was just that the targeting of some "special" programs were widened to encompass the entire market.
Interest-only loans were created for those who have a high, but unsteady income. Many high-end jobs that are commission-based may have an average annual income of 6-7 figures, but there may be months where income is well below 1/12th of annual. Interest-only allows a responsible buyer to pay the minimum when necessary, but to make a "proper" P&I payment when possible, so the home never falls into negative amortization.

Loans that, 15 year ago, were only 1-5% the number and 10-15% of the value of all loans written, and written to those with excellent credit, became the staple of the industry.

[THRILLA]

How much is a trillion anyway?

[Guitarosaur]

Originally Posted by jay08

AIG has it's fingers in everything worldwide thats why the gov bailed them out . the ones thats can be saved will be and companies that are really bleeding will be let alone to die and if you do buisness with the dieng companies you sure as chit ar gonna feel it. Ps i will be making my tinfoil hat later tonight lol.

I'm pi$$ed that the "GOV" in this context means YOU AND ME. And when the smoke clears, it's gonna be you and me that shiver under bridges and eat cat food from cans (made in China) while these g**-d***, mother****ing, s***eating, c***sucking, baby-raping a$$-bandits continue to light their Cubans with the money YOU AND I made them. Sorry I had to PG-13 that...
I really like you guys a lot and I wish I could have just gone ahead and said how I really feel.

(mumbles to self) f***ing rat ba5tards....

[RichLockyer]

Let's put China in perspective.

China's GDP is only 20% of the US GDP.
The GROWTH of the US GDP over the last 5 years has exceeded the entire Chinese GDP (IOTW, we have grown over 20% in the last 5 years).
On the average, the per-capita GDP of the US is 20 times as high as the Chinese.

Even if China continues to grow at their current rate, and the US at our current rate (and there are resource and pollution issues that will force a slowdown in China) it will still take them 35-38 years to catch up to us.

[Musgofasa]

Originally Posted by RichLockyer

Let's put China in perspective.

China's GDP is only 20% of the US GDP.
The GROWTH of the US GDP over the last 5 years has exceeded the entire Chinese GDP (IOTW, we have grown over 20% in the last 5 years).
On the average, the per-capita GDP of the US is 20 times as high as the Chinese.

Even if China continues to grow at their current rate, and the US at our current rate (and there are resource and pollution issues that will force a slowdown in China) it will still take them 35-38 years to catch up to us.

Got a little "too big for our britches" it seems.

I have to agree that if we make it through this without shredding the country to peices, the ensuing deflation will feel like a breathe of fresh air. I don't think the government alone, with or without the band-aids, will hurt us that much. The Depression was a turning point in US history and something tells me this will be earmarked as a similar occurence in another 70 or 80 years. One way or another, finance always comes to the root of history.

Luckily for me, I filed for Chapter 7 some 4 years ago and I don't have much debt. My house is a standard, fixed rate loan that is easily sold to another lender if the bank starts sliding. I hope I don't have to deal with that, but at least my ratios make it fairly easy to negotiate. I am just glad it is all the money I owe to anyone right now. The bike could be paid off if need be. I am using that simply to re-establish credit so if that bank starts looking shaky, I will take care of it quickly.

Now if I can just manage to dig some holes in the backyard to put all my gold jewelry and silver coins in!

Robert

[aKorn]

This about sum up our situation. Bush may pretend to be a social conservative but he certainly isn't a traditional conservative. What would Barry Goldwater say?

How We Became the United States of France - TIME

They have created this crisis by been forcing artificially low interest rates and trashing the value of the dollar to prop up debtors. Anyone w/ cash in the bank has been screwed.

Let the markets work!

IMHO

[RichLockyer]

Originally Posted by aKorn

This about sum up our situation. Bush may pretend to be a social conservative but he certainly isn't a traditional conservative. What would Barry Goldwater say?

Yuppers... only slightly better than Arnold.

But... given the alternatives.....

Modern Republicans (at least those with any pull in the party) are actually to the left of JFK.
Modern Democrats are slightly to the left of McGovern and Walter Mondale.

No matter what, you have to pick the candidate who most CLOSELY represents your values and ideals. If there is little difference from a fiscal perspective, then you have to go by social issues and national security/foreign policy issues.
If there is little difference there, then the only choice you have is which one will fight to keep your taxes lower.

Or make a protest vote with a 3rd party. Perot and Nader should have been wakeup calls, but somebody hit the snooze button.

[aKorn]

Ron Paul is getting my vote. Have you noticed how the media is suddenly talking to him? He's been called the financial meltdown years ago.

Sure Bush "Slightly" lowered my taxes but he doubled the deficit. Any tax reductions that aren't paid for by cost reductions are just an illusion. Somebody is going to have to pay off the deficit and I sure hate to leave it to my kids. It's funny, Clinton was actually paying down the deficit when he was in office but the "conservatives" don't seem to remember that. Oh wait, I'm only supposed to remember a blowj*b.

All the talk of left and right, culture wars ect... is just cover for the fleecing of the american people. Bush'e friends have made out like bandits.

Let's put China in perspective.

I agree, China is just a cover story.

Follow the money in both the current financial crisis and the current war and you'll see what the real polital agenda is all about.

IMHO

[Musgofasa]

So my question is, "if we all know this, and rarely disagree that it is wrong, why does it still happen?"

Seriously. I seen and heard similar conversations all over the place. The average person either knows or suspects that all these agenda's are about the people in power and that we are the ones suffering. How is it then, that these things continue to happen? Does our vote make any difference at all? Did any of the people we put in office in the last 100 years really make a difference?

I am just old enough to have seen major swings. When I first hit the working market, I had my own business about the time Clinton took over. I was prosperous and kept reading about the deficit being nixed which was great news after the previous "Bush Administration". 8 years later, Billy goes out, a new Bush comes in and my world has been absolutely upside down ever since. Every friend I have has been through two or three jobs, I lost my shop and two family members to stress and filed bankruptcy along with more millions of people than in history. Did he really have anything to do with it or would the same things have happened if we had elected someone else.

I feel helpless sometimes ya know? So what can you and I actually do about stuff like this? I don't have any real debt now. I owe for my bike as a means of building my credit. If something happens, I can pay it off. I owe for my house and that's a different story, but it's not beyond my means and I have a standard, fixed rate mortgage. Does that mean I made a good choice?

Too many things going on for my tastes anymore.

[RichLockyer]

Originally Posted by aKorn

Sure Bush "Slightly" lowered my taxes but he doubled the deficit. Any tax reductions that aren't paid for by cost reductions are just an illusion. Somebody is going to have to pay off the deficit and I sure hate to leave it to my kids.

We can and will grow out of it IF spending is held in check by the administrations elected over the next 20 years.

We always HAVE grown out of deficits. No, the national debt has never been retired, but it's impact on the economy as a whole is, for the most part, overstated and it becomes a political football.

The Bush tax cuts were more than "slight"... Across the board, from the car wash jockey to the investment banker making 10 mill a year, the percentage ranged from about 10.5% to a tick over 18%, and those that got the 18% cut were in the "middle class" 50-90k brackets, when comparing 2001 to 2003
The 2002 cuts were partial, and primarily benefited those below $40k (those who needed it most), and those around $500k (those who CREATE the jobs and drive the economy). The 2003 cuts evened everything out for the rest of us.
http://personal.linkline.com/rlockyer/taxbenefit.xls

[aKorn]

I know how our founding fathers resolved their similar situation but our nation of sheep isn't ready for that. We desperately need a third party, at very least.

[aKorn]

Originally Posted by RichLockyer

We can and will grow out of it IF spending is held in check by the administrations elected over the next 20 years.

We always HAVE grown out of deficits. No, the national debt has never been retired, but it's impact on the economy as a whole is, for the most part, overstated and it becomes a political football.

The Bush tax cuts were more than "slight"... Across the board, from the car wash jockey to the investment banker making 10 mill a year, the percentage ranged from about 10.5% to a tick over 18%, and those that got the 18% cut were in the "middle class" 50-90k brackets, when comparing 2001 to 2003
The 2002 cuts were partial, and primarily benefited those below $40k (those who needed it most), and those around $500k (those who CREATE the jobs and drive the economy). The 2003 cuts evened everything out for the rest of us.
http://personal.linkline.com/rlockyer/taxbenefit.xls

But they were paid for with debt, not cost reductions. It's like me taking a cash advance on my credit card to give myself a raise. Sure I have money in my pocket but again it's just an illusion of progress.

So in your own life, personal debt does not matter? All you have to do is make more money. I think you might be buying the party line when you say deficits don't matter. (a famous Darth-Cheney quote)

I have a degree in business and have ran my own business for seven years. In my experience debt and interest payments matter a bunch.

So Bush cut my taxes 10% and doubled the deficit. I don't believe that in any way equals out. I'm all for tax cust but only when they are offset by spending reductions.

IMHO

[Musgofasa]

I had never seen that about the "Bush Tax cuts"

I have always heard that it was geared towards the $500K more so than anyone else. Of course, 10% of that amount is a lot more than 20% of <$40k so in a way it makes sense that you would still hear that.

One thing I have always asked is this. If the >$500K people are the ones who create jobs and drive economy, what would they do if the <$500k people couldn't afford the products they make? In the end, I always thought the consumer was what drove the economy and there are a hell of a lot more people making $30K a year or less than $500K or more.

Not that I have any good answers, that's for sure. I may not agree with the powers that be most of the time, but unfortunately I can't argue with them either. I don't see any good answers to those problems most of the time. At least the answers I come up with, no one believes are possible or at least they think I am looking too far outside reality I guess.

[RichLockyer]

Originally Posted by Musgofasa

Did he really have anything to do with it or would the same things have happened if we had elected someone else.

The POTUS has very little direct power.
The Federal Reserve has a LOT of power through the manipulation of interest rates (controls the availability of money to balance inflation with economic growth), but in the end, the economy is cyclical.
In the 70s, we had what was called the "misery index". That index was keyed to the unemployment rate, inflation rate, and the interest rate.
All three, IIRC, were over 10% (I'm not POSITIVE about unemployment, but I believe it was).
The top marginal tax rate was 70%... it is presently 35%.

BUT... look at what was going on in the world? People say "we need a war to bring us out of this"... and it DOES temporarily boost the economy, but at what cost? The boost from war is due to increased government spending creating jobs in the defense sector. As we saw with the Soviet Union... that cannot go on forever.
How did we win the "cold war" without firing a shot? Our economy was robust enough through capitalism and the free market to allow our government to literally drive the Soviets into bankruptcy.

But it took it's toll. In the 70s, we were faced with two MAJOR factors. The 1974 Arab oil embargo cut off our oil imports. Gas more than doubled in price within a year (and it's been a rollercoaster ever since). Higher fuel costs drive inflation in ALL markets... everything has to get from point-a to point-b.
The other thing that hammered us was the end of the Vietnam war. Thousands of troops returning home, and we had thousands of layoffs in the defense sector as wartime production was shut down. My dad was laid off for 9 months when Carter canceled the B1A program and he was out of work until Rockwell got the contract for the Shuttle.
Ordinarily, an economy will produce "guns" or "butter"... but we were robust enough that, other than gas, we had no wartime shortages of "butter"... the Vietnam era was quite prosperous. So when the production of "guns" slowed down, there was no room in the market for companies and people to switch back to "butter". This was very different from WWII, when automakers were producing aircraft instead of cars.

So there we go... Two major "incidents" that caused inflation and unemployment to shoot through the roof. It's no wonder that the POTUS and Congress are reluctant to ramp up spending on military programs and troop levels. They all remember the 70s.
To control inflation, the Fed was forced to raise interest rates. Got a 5.9% interest rate on your mortgage? My parents were at 14%, and they had spotless credit until dad was laid off.