Oil... Completely Off Topic...

[kawichic]

I watch the news when I can at work. Not because of anything significant more than wanting to keep up-to-date on what's going on in the world. Today, on an opinionated news show, [I forget what its called] I sat through a full hour of debates, factual arguments, and some history lessons on oil and what's going on in the country today. Now I'm not trying to get political here... ugh, no... but the information I learned today was staggering to me.

The vast majority of the world's oil is consumed by four major groups: and these numbers blew me away. Russia uses 2.92 million barrels a day. Japan uses 5.16 million barrels a day. China uses 7.27 million barrels a day. And we [states] use 20.7 MILLION barrels per day! That is almost unbelievable until you sit down and really think about it.

Because of this, certain people have mandated the development and use of alternative energy sources like solar and wind power. But rather than saving the planet from oil dependence and global warming, bio-fuels are raising food prices, endangering the hungry, and only slightly reducing the need for oil. Even if all the corn and soybean crops produced in the US were converted for fuel, it still would only be enough to meet about 20% of the demand. That is astonishing!

It doesn't take a genius to see that a crisis is looming in our future. So far no alternative energy source shows promise of solving the problem, and until that happens, we will continue to be heavily dependent on foreign sources. This isn't a new problem either - and here I thought it was. Then I came home from work and started doing a little of my own research via the internet, and discovered that this oil problem has been a problem for a while now.

1980, Carter made a speech in which he stated, "...an attempt by any outside force to gain control of the Persian Gulf region will be regarded as an assault on the vital interests of the USA, and such an assault will be repelled by any means necessary including military force..." -A clear determination to protect the Gulf even at the expense of our own troops. And its been that way for a long time. Am I so naive that I'm only just now realizing this?

1990, Saddam Husseiin sent troops into Kuwait to take over the nation's oil fields. That much I knew. Bush and Cheney sent troops to Kuwait to repel the Iraqi invasion. I knew this too. Other justifications for war were given in 1990 and 1991, but primarily, it was fought almost entirely over oil. And make no mistake, while the war in Iraq is about terrorism, its also about oil - oil that is sold to finance the Muslim regime and oil that is necessary for the West to function economically.

So are we truly running out of oil? According to the president of Saudi Aramco, we've only tapped into 18% of producible potential, but we dont have access to all that oil, nor do we have the capacity to harvest it all. Therefore, the oil shortage is indeed real and will continue to have an enormous effect on our culture. Well, that's uplifting, isn't it?

So what's my point? Energy must not exceed available supply. Our dependence on foreign oil has become a major concern, especially since the oil lies under the control of nations which we have hostile relationships with. And with the continuing fiasco in Iraq, its clear that even the most powerful military in the world cant stabilize a country at will, or make it produce oil simply by sending in soldiers and tanks. Simply put, we [states] cant guarantee the security of oil supplies for ourselves or anyone else. Our ability to protect foreign oil inflow is limited at best. Even with brute military force, we cant ensure an endless supply of oil from those hostile countries. So we have to continue to deal with reality as it is now - oil remains in the control of countries essentially hostile to us, or at best, only tenuously allied. As Omer Selah said, "A huge percentage of the world's oil reserves is found in the possession of powers not friendly to the West."

What's even more scary is the wealth of those nations. Its growing at such a rate that they're struggling to find ways to invest their resources. Between 2000 and 2007, oil revenues went from $243 billion to $688 billion, not including the price spikes in 2007. Its said that these countries have $4 TRILLION invested around the world from the money earned in oil exports. And our enemies consider this kind of wealth to be a gigantic weapon. And here Islam perceives Christianized Euro-American civilization as the ultimate enemy. Um, that would be us! In 2002, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei admitted this by stating, "The oil belongs to the people and can be used as a weapon against the West..." Yikes!

ITs clear that America's ride on the wave of wealth and power faces unprecedented threats from rich, united Middle Eastern countries that have little love for us. Many of them, I'm fairly positive, would love to see us reduced to nothing but ashes. Its clear to me that they're feeling the power that control of most of the world's oil has given them. This information doesnt bode well for the future of the states, in my personal opinion, or our Western allies.

So what are we going to do? What can we do? Keep waiting for the corrupt politicians to "fix" the problem or worsen it. Keep working, pay our taxes, and hope and pray someone in power has a conscience and does something right on our behalf. Keep watching everything unfold, and read between the lines. Wait, work, and watch. Its all we can really do, I suppose. And frankly, it ****es me off.

Okay, off my soapbox. I just needed to rant.

[trikebubble]

Interesting read, however this "And here Islam perceives Christianized Euro-American civilization as the ultimate enemy" is simply not true, though has been used for centuries to fuel the fire. And while you do obtain a good portion of your countries oil from Middle Eastern "hostile" (in your words) countries, the majority of your oil is actually supplied by your very freindly neighbours to the North.

[Idaho]

Originally Posted by trikebubble

Interesting read, however this "And here Islam perceives Christianized Euro-American civilization as the ultimate enemy" is simply not true, though has been used for centuries to fuel the fire. And while you do obtain a good portion of your countries oil from Middle Eastern "hostile" (in your words) countries, the majority of your oil is actually supplied by your very freindly neighbours to the North.

The destruction of the landscape and the scars it will forever leave behind saddens me beyond words as the oil sands of Alberta take their place in history in the line of our greed and indifference.

[kawichic]

I'm just regurgitating what I learned/heard today on the program I watched where they focused more of their oil debates and conversations on the oil that comes from the Middle East. And "hostile" was a word they continuously used to describe those countries' attitude toward the States. Actually, come to think of it, there was LITERALLY no mention whatsoever about Alaska or Canada... wonder why.

[big worm]

Originally Posted by Idaho

The destruction of the landscape and the scars it will forever leave behind saddens me beyond words as the oil sands of Alberta take their place in history in the line of our greed and indifference.

ok that makes no sense at all.... you say it saddens you yet you use oil from there every day....

Originally Posted by Idaho

The destruction of the landscape and the scars it will forever leave behind saddens me beyond words as the oil sands of Alberta take their place in history in the line of our greed and indifference.

You do realize that in a few billion years, when the sun goes nova, this planet isn't going to be anything but a burnt-out cinder... right?

Nothing lasts forever.


Besides, scars show character. Take any mountain range, for instance...

[tai42]

Originally Posted by Jamie C.

You do realize that in a few billion years, when the sun goes nova, this planet isn't going to be anything but a burnt-out cinder... right?

Sorry, the nerd in me is coming out. The sun is actually not massive enough to go nova. (Would need to be approximately 4.6 times more massive.) It will expand to become a red giant engulfing all the inner planets, and then shrink down to a white dwarf.

[nomidlname]

What do white dwarfs become? I'll google it... kinda neat though... I saw a size comparison of our planet versus our sun versus some massive stars... we are soooo small... sorry off topic

Originally Posted by tai42

Sorry, the nerd in me is coming out. The sun is actually not massive enough to go nova. (Would need to be approximately 4.6 times more massive.) It will expand to become a red giant engulfing all the inner planets, and then shrink down to a white dwarf.

Well, I may have gotten the mechanics of the bonfire wrong, but the result comes up the same: all your marshmallows end up black and crispy.

Oh, and never mind that some giant space rock could end all life on the planet long before the sun ever gets a chance to do the job.

[RampRat]

Originally Posted by trikebubble

Interesting read, however this "And here Islam perceives Christianized Euro-American civilization as the ultimate enemy" is simply not true, though has been used for centuries to fuel the fire. And while you do obtain a good portion of your countries oil from Middle Eastern "hostile" (in your words) countries, the majority of your oil is actually supplied by your very freindly neighbours to the North.

Ya know what. when I was in Saudi, Kuwait, UAE and a few other countries over there, local nationals I talked to all said that according to the Koran and the Islamic religion all "Christian's" (those that are not muslim) are the enemy and America was referred to as "the great satan" many times.

I was even told that one African American who had converted to Islam was considered un clean & not a true believer and he could not go to any off base mosques in the UAE or he would "disappear" and never be seen again.

[trikebubble]

Originally Posted by RampRat

Ya know what. when I was in Saudi, Kuwait, UAE and a few other countries over there, local nationals I talked to all said that according to the Koran and the Islamic religion all "Christian's" (those that are not muslim) are the enemy and America was referred to as "the great satan" many times.

I was even told that one African American who had converted to Islam was considered un clean & not a true believer and he could not go to any off base mosques in the UAE or he would "disappear" and never be seen again.

Good to see you again Joe, it's been awhile.
Without stepping over the no religion line here it;s kind of hard to explain what I would like to, but i will leave it at this........in my book every major religious movement on this earth has proved at some pointinthepast that they have the ability to hate on a large scale, and the force to back it up.
I see none as any better or worse than the others.

But it is good to chat with you again buddy.

[RampRat]

Originally Posted by trikebubble

Good to see you again Joe, it's been awhile.
Without stepping over the no religion line here it;s kind of hard to explain what I would like to, but i will leave it at this........in my book every major religious movement on this earth has proved at some pointinthepast that they have the ability to hate on a large scale, and the force to back it up.
I see none as any better or worse than the others.

But it is good to chat with you again buddy.

Have some extra time today & figured I'd stop in and wave

That's why I'll leave this alone from here as it's all about Religion & History and how they go hand in hand back to before the birth of Christ and always will go together till the end of the human race.

[trikebubble]

Originally Posted by Idaho

The destruction of the landscape and the scars it will forever leave behind saddens me beyond words as the oil sands of Alberta take their place in history in the line of our greed and indifference.

Conicidentally, I was listening to a report on CBC Radio about the tar sands this morning.
Did you know (or care), that the combined saize of the tailing ponds around Fort McMurray total over 130 square km's! To put the size of the operation into perspective one of the tailing ponds is banked by the largest man-made earth dam on this planet. The tar sands are also the single largest polluter in our Country...something to be very proud about.....
All one needs to do is google earth the Fort McMurray area to see what a tar sands operation does to the landscape.

[jeffs99vulcan]

What's MOST sad about the whole thing (and I'm glad to see you get so passionate about it Lee, 'cause I think the subject NEEDS that), is that even IF there was a magic answer, it would undoubtedly get bogged down with politics, religion, environmentalists, terrorists, crooked elected officials, back room deals... etc. etc. etc... because powerful people have subversive interests... before it ever saw the light of day.

[jeffs99vulcan]

I'm not so convinced that the odd scar here and there is THAT big a deal, but am open to conversation, I'm just saying I'm not convinced.

In all seriousness, 99.9% of people will never SEE the scar. Without Google Earth or TV, even that number would climb... to a number that represents EVERYONE that doesn't actually work there.

It's like my Dad used to say... people put seat covers on the seats of their new cars so that when they want to sell the car they can take them off and the seats look new. But then you never get to enjoy the new seats YOURSELF... So what's the correlation? If you're never going to SEE the scar, what's the problem with making it?!

How much of the earth's surface is scarred, by percentage? I'd be willing to bet that we can find an alternative energy source before that percentage is a number that causes any real, measurable damage.

And in the end... yes, I'm passionate about a loss of a species, extinction etc. But self-preservation is important among ALL animals, not just humans. If animals thought they could self-preserve by killing us off, do you think they'd hesitate?!

I hope for a better world, but it's gets hard to imagine... I used to like the Star Trek Next Gen series... they figured out that there were more important things... and the world didn't revolve around money any more, there was no hunger, war, and people worked together...

Thanks for letting me use a corner of your soapbox Lee!!!

[NCDave]

Originally Posted by kawichic

Okay, off my soapbox. I just needed to rant.

Lee,
Perhaps you should just consider sharing a bottle of Wesson Oil with me instead!

[Idaho]

Originally Posted by trikebubble

Conicidentally, I was listening to a report on CBC Radio about the tar sands this morning.
Did you know (or care), that the combined saize of the tailing ponds around Fort McMurray total over 130 square km's! To put the size of the operation into perspective one of the tailing ponds is banked by the largest man-made earth dam on this planet. The tar sands are also the single largest polluter in our Country...something to be very proud about.....
All one needs to do is google earth the Fort McMurray area to see what a tar sands operation does to the landscape.

No, I did not realize that and yes I do care. Thank you for the info and for your stewardship concerns. Just because I have not seen that area or a host of other places around the world does not mean that I do not care. I am not a well travelled person and probably will never be able to afford to be one. But with so much information available today at least it is nice to learn about them from reading, the internet and friends/eye witness accounts etc.. I suppose some folks would call me an environmentalist...ok

[Idaho]

News article from the BBC

BBC NEWS | Americas | Canada's 'dirty oil' challenge

[kawichic]

Originally Posted by jeffs99vulcan

What's MOST sad about the whole thing (and I'm glad to see you get so passionate about it Lee, 'cause I think the subject NEEDS that), is that even IF there was a magic answer, it would undoubtedly get bogged down with politics, religion, environmentalists, terrorists, crooked elected officials, back room deals... etc. etc. etc... because powerful people have subversive interests... before it ever saw the light of day.

Oh, I agree 100%

[kawichic]

Originally Posted by NCDave

Lee,
Perhaps you should just consider sharing a bottle of Wesson Oil with me instead!

LOL You just made my day... and its been a pretty crappy one.