Constrictor's Caddman Air Mod Tutorial (56k Warning) - Page 8

CaddmannQ · 05-12-2007

There's really no pressure on the cover plate. And the silicone should hold it together fine if everything was really clean when you put it together. Oil or dirt on the plastic would definately weaken the bond.

There is a minor posibility that the silicone will interact chemically with the plastic in time, but after 3+ years I've noticed no evidence of that. Accelerated laboratory aging tests done when I worked at Kawneer indicate that some silicones do react badly with some types of synthetic "rubber/plastic" materials, but none of them were similar with the type of plastic used by Kawasaki AFAICT.

Silicone adhesives, however, do vary in composition. What I used was silver GE Silicone-II which is designed to seal galvanized flashing. As it happens, that's what I used for my cover plate.

RichLockyer · 05-12-2007

I wasn't worried about the chemical issues (I didn't run a screw in the drain hole either)... I was thinking vibration over time working the plate loose.

Ya, it's probably fine, but I like things to be mechanically secure before applying sealant/adhesive (depending on the application).

gonzosc1 · 05-13-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaddmannQ

Did you ride the bike until the engine warmed fully & adjust the idle RPM to 900?

Once you do this, with the ICS gone, your startup idle at temps below about 70F will be too low to maintain without the knob out, and at temps below 60, even the knob probably won't be enough without Gadget's shim mod.

I think I may have found the quick fix for this by mistake. yes, quicker then shimming.
I was playing with the bike yesterday.(06 1600 classic) after adding some drive lights and a tach I started it up to check things out.
wanting to get it warmed up so I could see my idle when warm I pulled the choke knob out to idle it up some. at one point I gave the gas a little crank and the throttle went up and stayed there.
I freaked out and cut off the bike cuz I thought it was stuck. pushed the choke back in and started it again, no problems. so I pulled the choke out again and cranked the gas again and it stuck again. this time I didn't cut off the bike I just pushed in the choke knob and it went back to idle. so after a few trys I found that with the choke knob pulled out you can set the idle speed with the throttle anywhere you want and it will stay there. kinda like curise control for your idle!!!!
anyway just an idea to kick around....

gonzosc1 · 05-13-2007

Question on the caddmann mod.
the mod calls for 9" air filters. the base plates on my 06 1600 classic are 8.5" wide.
can I use the 8.5" filters? what the reason for the 9" filters??
on the K&N 8.5" filter, what is the filters thickness from inside dia to outside dia??
I measured as best I could and its looks like I have a 1/2" clearnce around the baseplate for a filter to fit. what do you all think on this??
the reason for asking is I want to use the Moroso 8.5" red anodized air cleaner setup on this to have a color match with the bike...
need answers please! this fitment question is holding up my bike mods.
waiting to install pipes and TFI cuz of this fitment question.

RichLockyer · 05-13-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by gonzosc1

so after a few trys I found that with the choke knob pulled out you can set the idle speed with the throttle anywhere you want and it will stay there. kinda like curise control for your idle!!!!
anyway just an idea to kick around....

Mine does not do this... in fact, on cold mornings when I had the ICS removed, I'd ride 3-4 miles with the choke pulled out. I don't know what is going on with yours, but it isn't right (or safe)... if you;re still under warranty, I'd take it to the dealer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gonzosc1

Question on the caddmann mod.
the mod calls for 9" air filters. the base plates on my 06 1600 classic are 8.5" wide.
can I use the 8.5" filters? what the reason for the 9" filters??

The 9" filter overlaps the baseplates by 1/4" all the way around. The seal is formed by the baseplate and filter rim.
The 8.5" poses two potential problems. One, it may not be quite large enough to seal, and two, the inside diameter will hit the ICS solenoids if you leave them installed. I removed my ICS for about two months and I got tired of having to use the choke and watch my idle speed. I reinstalled them and haven't used the choke since after initial warmup in my driveway.
The noise goes away in a couple of miles, and to me, it's not that loud.

I know at least one other forum member has used the Moroso covers... do a search for "Moroso" and you should find his username.

gonzosc1 · 05-13-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichLockyer

Mine does not do this... in fact, on cold mornings when I had the ICS removed, I'd ride 3-4 miles with the choke pulled out. I don't know what is going on with yours, but it isn't right (or safe)... if you;re still under warranty, I'd take it to the dealer.

The 9" filter overlaps the baseplates by 1/4" all the way around. The seal is formed by the baseplate and filter rim.
The 8.5" poses two potential problems. One, it may not be quite large enough to seal, and two, the inside diameter will hit the ICS solenoids if you leave them installed. I removed my ICS for about two months and I got tired of having to use the choke and watch my idle speed. I reinstalled them and haven't used the choke since after initial warmup in my driveway.
The noise goes away in a couple of miles, and to me, it's not that loud.

I know at least one other forum member has used the Moroso covers... do a search for "Moroso" and you should find his username.

well I guess my choke is in a sticky state. I don't drive it until its warmed up enough to release the choke so I don't think I have that to worry about.
I never drive with choke on.

I will do a sreach for the Moroso on the forum.
it would be easier if they just made a 9" cleaner LOL.
I know the other air cleaner mod(can't remember the name) can use the 8.5" but I would have to buy new baseplates and stuff so thats out as the money would be the same as buying a hypercharger.
I have been doing the homework on the mods and it does seem like the idle is a problem. On a scale of 1-10 just how loud are the ICS's when started cold?
and on the same scale how loud are they after warm up like you mentioned?

these mods are alot of fun but I just seem to be having alot of trouble getting the things I really want. like the corbin seat I have my heart set on. its a no go from corbin.
now this moroso deal might be heading south unless I put the big bucks on it.!!!!! well I guess I will keep trying

RichLockyer · 05-13-2007

How loud are they?
Let's preface this....
I'm totally deaf in my right ear
I'm running V&H BigShots pipes

I can barely hear them. There's a little bit of a "clackety clack" from that side while the engine is cold at idle, but it's not enough to bother me.
Several other members here reconnected them and it doesn't seem to bother them.

Once the engine is warm and can maintain idle speed, they shut down and are silent, as are they when the engine is above idle speed.

To see if you can tolerate them, pick a cool, damp morning when there's no dust blowing around. Pull the right side airbox cover, start it up, and take it around the block.

gonzosc1 · 05-13-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichLockyer

How loud are they?
Let's preface this....
I'm totally deaf in my right ear
I'm running V&H BigShots pipes

I can barely hear them. There's a little bit of a "clackety clack" from that side while the engine is cold at idle, but it's not enough to bother me.
Several other members here reconnected them and it doesn't seem to bother them.

Once the engine is warm and can maintain idle speed, they shut down and are silent, as are they when the engine is above idle speed.

To see if you can tolerate them, pick a cool, damp morning when there's no dust blowing around. Pull the right side airbox cover, start it up, and take it around the block.

OK then it appears that the loudness really isn't a problem then. if they are mostly not working when the bike is warmed up. sounds like the way to go.
less stuff to fool around with is always a good thing.

RichLockyer · 05-13-2007

Ya... all you need to do is bend the mounting tabs for them in a little bit to move them closer to center and clear the inside of the air cleaner.

90% sure that an 8.5" filter will not fit with them installed though.

Now that doesn't mean you can't be creative. I had a Camaro with velocity stacks, and couldn't find a filter lid the same diameter. The little Mr. Gasket covers slipped inside the stack... disrupted airflow, which I didn't care about since I yanked them on the track, but they also trapped dirt where the stack curved in to meet the filter. When I removed them, everything they were supposed to be catching fell into the carbs.

I found an element size that would fit the top rim of the stacks, and then cut a piece of sheet that diameter. I then painted my lid black and stacked my lid under the Mr. Gasket lid.
The Mr Gasket lid provided the strength needed to keep my lid from bowing in the center, and it looked good.

You could do the same with an 8.5" Moroso lid and cut a 9" disk to go under it.

FWIW: 9" is as big as you can go. It's pretty close to the tank at the top, and any more and you aren't getting the rear plugs out.

gonzosc1 · 05-13-2007

I just finished my forum sreach and came up with one guy that goes by the name "Classic". he has done the 8.5" moroso mod but did not give much detail in his posts. from what I can tell he just put them on like the 9". but did not say if he had the ICS's still installed or not.
I sent him a PM and hopefully he is still active on here and will get back to me.
I may have too get the creative juices going cuz I really want the 8.5" red anodized covers. it would look so hot with the two tone red and black 1600 classic. by the way nice looking bike you got in your avitar LOL.
I will pull the cover off sometime this week and look into relocating the ICS's.
maybe I could move them inwards a 1/4" or so somehow, hopefully not messing up the airflow as they are below the intake hole. or relocate them onto the back of the new air cover. something!!! have to get the brain going on this one

RichLockyer · 05-13-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by gonzosc1

by the way nice looking bike you got in your avitar LOL.

It doesn't look like that anymore

http://personal.linkline.com/rlockye...s/DSC00549.JPG

gonzosc1 · 05-13-2007

Sweet!!!!! my handlebars are a mess since I installed the Phatraiser II's all the cables and wiring looks bad compared to yours. damn more bling to buy,,,LOL

RichLockyer · 05-13-2007

LOL!
Someone posted a thread asking how much we've spent on mods.
I stopped adding at $5k.

gonzosc1 · 05-14-2007

man 5k is alot LOL! I'm gald I got the 06 leftover cuz I need that money for bling LOL. I don't know if I'll hit the 5k mark but it will be more then I wanted to spend. I'm at the $1500 mark now and almost done with the blingfest.
but the seat will put me over the $2000 mark...I'm hoping to stop at around $2500 point buy you never know what will pop up.

RichLockyer · 05-14-2007

It adds up... with the K&N filters and spare left side backplate, and fancy knobs, the Caddmann ran me about $200 to do both sides.
$400 and change for pipes
$500 for the seat
$700 for the apes
$500 for the Leatherlyke saddlebags
$400 for the windshield and lowers

I think that's everything that was over $400 in one shot. There's a LOT of $100-$200 items like the EFI tuner, crash bars, passenger backrest, luggage rack, fender tips, light bar, head/driving light visors, highway pegs, etc....

Double that $5k if the dealer had done the installation... no way!

RichLockyer · 05-17-2007

Hey I was just thinking about the Moroso cover and 9" filter element... the backplate is 8.5" and the 9" filter rim seals to it just fine, there's no reason why the Moroso cover would not also seal to the front... you'd just have a small amount of rubber filter rim exposed around the cover.
It should look just fine.

gonzosc1 · 05-17-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichLockyer

Hey I was just thinking about the Moroso cover and 9" filter element... the backplate is 8.5" and the 9" filter rim seals to it just fine, there's no reason why the Moroso cover would not also seal to the front... you'd just have a small amount of rubber filter rim exposed around the cover.
It should look just fine.

Hey now thats an idea!!!!!! I have been talking with classic over the past couple of days. he's helping me come up with idea's that would require less mod's to the baseplates and ICS's. as it stands now I will have to mod the intake side baseplate by moving the ICS's inward as much as possible and then cut away some plastic on the baseplate and on the inside filter rim.
not looking forward to that!!!!
I think I will go with your idea, way less work LOL!!!!!!
maybe add a little weather stripping for a good seal......sweet..
you da man!!!!! I glad someone here is thinking for me!!!!! LOL

RichLockyer · 05-17-2007

The K&Ns seal up pretty well without weatherstripping. It's the Spectro (both paper and fabric) that have a harder seal material that doesn't seem to do as well on the "knife edge" that we seal against.

Also keep in mind that on the 1500, the backplate actually has a very slight dip in one edge that the weatherseal compensates for.

*jukief* · 05-17-2007

I have the K&Ns and love them.

gonzosc1 · 05-18-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichLockyer

The K&Ns seal up pretty well without weatherstripping. It's the Spectro (both paper and fabric) that have a harder seal material that doesn't seem to do as well on the "knife edge" that we seal against.

Also keep in mind that on the 1500, the backplate actually has a very slight dip in one edge that the weatherseal compensates for.

I think I'll be ok as I have the 1600 and I didn't notice any dip in the baseplate.

05-12-2007	#142 (permalink)
RichLockyer Patriot Guardian Extreme Forum Supporter Join Date: May 2006 Location: Chino, CA Posts: 17,367	I wasn't worried about the chemical issues (I didn't run a screw in the drain hole either)... I was thinking vibration over time working the plate loose. Ya, it's probably fine, but I like things to be mechanically secure before applying sealant/adhesive (depending on the application). __________________ - Rich 2006 1600 Classic Member CORVA, BRC Patriot Guard Rider

05-13-2007	#147 (permalink)
RichLockyer Patriot Guardian Extreme Forum Supporter Join Date: May 2006 Location: Chino, CA Posts: 17,367	How loud are they? Let's preface this.... I'm totally deaf in my right ear I'm running V&H BigShots pipes I can barely hear them. There's a little bit of a "clackety clack" from that side while the engine is cold at idle, but it's not enough to bother me. Several other members here reconnected them and it doesn't seem to bother them. Once the engine is warm and can maintain idle speed, they shut down and are silent, as are they when the engine is above idle speed. To see if you can tolerate them, pick a cool, damp morning when there's no dust blowing around. Pull the right side airbox cover, start it up, and take it around the block. __________________ - Rich 2006 1600 Classic Member CORVA, BRC Patriot Guard Rider

05-13-2007	#149 (permalink)
RichLockyer Patriot Guardian Extreme Forum Supporter Join Date: May 2006 Location: Chino, CA Posts: 17,367	Ya... all you need to do is bend the mounting tabs for them in a little bit to move them closer to center and clear the inside of the air cleaner. 90% sure that an 8.5" filter will not fit with them installed though. Now that doesn't mean you can't be creative. I had a Camaro with velocity stacks, and couldn't find a filter lid the same diameter. The little Mr. Gasket covers slipped inside the stack... disrupted airflow, which I didn't care about since I yanked them on the track, but they also trapped dirt where the stack curved in to meet the filter. When I removed them, everything they were supposed to be catching fell into the carbs. I found an element size that would fit the top rim of the stacks, and then cut a piece of sheet that diameter. I then painted my lid black and stacked my lid under the Mr. Gasket lid. The Mr Gasket lid provided the strength needed to keep my lid from bowing in the center, and it looked good. You could do the same with an 8.5" Moroso lid and cut a 9" disk to go under it. FWIW: 9" is as big as you can go. It's pretty close to the tank at the top, and any more and you aren't getting the rear plugs out. __________________ - Rich 2006 1600 Classic Member CORVA, BRC Patriot Guard Rider

05-13-2007	#153 (permalink)
RichLockyer Patriot Guardian Extreme Forum Supporter Join Date: May 2006 Location: Chino, CA Posts: 17,367	LOL! Someone posted a thread asking how much we've spent on mods. I stopped adding at $5k. __________________ - Rich 2006 1600 Classic Member CORVA, BRC Patriot Guard Rider

05-14-2007	#155 (permalink)
RichLockyer Patriot Guardian Extreme Forum Supporter Join Date: May 2006 Location: Chino, CA Posts: 17,367	It adds up... with the K&N filters and spare left side backplate, and fancy knobs, the Caddmann ran me about $200 to do both sides. $400 and change for pipes $500 for the seat $700 for the apes $500 for the Leatherlyke saddlebags $400 for the windshield and lowers I think that's everything that was over $400 in one shot. There's a LOT of $100-$200 items like the EFI tuner, crash bars, passenger backrest, luggage rack, fender tips, light bar, head/driving light visors, highway pegs, etc.... Double that $5k if the dealer had done the installation... no way! __________________ - Rich 2006 1600 Classic Member CORVA, BRC Patriot Guard Rider

05-12-2007	#141 (permalink)
CaddmannQ Moto-Nerd BTK Beginner Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: California Posts: 118	There's really no pressure on the cover plate. And the silicone should hold it together fine if everything was really clean when you put it together. Oil or dirt on the plastic would definately weaken the bond. There is a minor posibility that the silicone will interact chemically with the plastic in time, but after 3+ years I've noticed no evidence of that. Accelerated laboratory aging tests done when I worked at Kawneer indicate that some silicones do react badly with some types of synthetic "rubber/plastic" materials, but none of them were similar with the type of plastic used by Kawasaki AFAICT. Silicone adhesives, however, do vary in composition. What I used was silver GE Silicone-II which is designed to seal galvanized flashing. As it happens, that's what I used for my cover plate.

05-13-2007	#144 (permalink)
gonzosc1 Refrigerator Magnet Test Engineer BTK Expert Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: South Carolina Posts: 466	Question on the caddmann mod. the mod calls for 9" air filters. the base plates on my 06 1600 classic are 8.5" wide. can I use the 8.5" filters? what the reason for the 9" filters?? on the K&N 8.5" filter, what is the filters thickness from inside dia to outside dia?? I measured as best I could and its looks like I have a 1/2" clearnce around the baseplate for a filter to fit. what do you all think on this?? the reason for asking is I want to use the Moroso 8.5" red anodized air cleaner setup on this to have a color match with the bike... need answers please! this fitment question is holding up my bike mods. waiting to install pipes and TFI cuz of this fitment question.

05-13-2007	#150 (permalink)
gonzosc1 Refrigerator Magnet Test Engineer BTK Expert Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: South Carolina Posts: 466	I just finished my forum sreach and came up with one guy that goes by the name "Classic". he has done the 8.5" moroso mod but did not give much detail in his posts. from what I can tell he just put them on like the 9". but did not say if he had the ICS's still installed or not. I sent him a PM and hopefully he is still active on here and will get back to me. I may have too get the creative juices going cuz I really want the 8.5" red anodized covers. it would look so hot with the two tone red and black 1600 classic. by the way nice looking bike you got in your avitar LOL. I will pull the cover off sometime this week and look into relocating the ICS's. maybe I could move them inwards a 1/4" or so somehow, hopefully not messing up the airflow as they are below the intake hole. or relocate them onto the back of the new air cover. something!!! have to get the brain going on this one

05-13-2007	#152 (permalink)
gonzosc1 Refrigerator Magnet Test Engineer BTK Expert Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: South Carolina Posts: 466	Sweet!!!!! my handlebars are a mess since I installed the Phatraiser II's all the cables and wiring looks bad compared to yours. damn more bling to buy,,,LOL

05-14-2007	#154 (permalink)
gonzosc1 Refrigerator Magnet Test Engineer BTK Expert Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: South Carolina Posts: 466	man 5k is alot LOL! I'm gald I got the 06 leftover cuz I need that money for bling LOL. I don't know if I'll hit the 5k mark but it will be more then I wanted to spend. I'm at the $1500 mark now and almost done with the blingfest. but the seat will put me over the $2000 mark...I'm hoping to stop at around $2500 point buy you never know what will pop up.

05-17-2007	#156 (permalink)
RichLockyer Patriot Guardian Extreme Forum Supporter Join Date: May 2006 Location: Chino, CA Posts: 17,367	Hey I was just thinking about the Moroso cover and 9" filter element... the backplate is 8.5" and the 9" filter rim seals to it just fine, there's no reason why the Moroso cover would not also seal to the front... you'd just have a small amount of rubber filter rim exposed around the cover. It should look just fine. __________________ - Rich 2006 1600 Classic Member CORVA, BRC Patriot Guard Rider

05-17-2007	#158 (permalink)
RichLockyer Patriot Guardian Extreme Forum Supporter Join Date: May 2006 Location: Chino, CA Posts: 17,367	The K&Ns seal up pretty well without weatherstripping. It's the Spectro (both paper and fabric) that have a harder seal material that doesn't seem to do as well on the "knife edge" that we seal against. Also keep in mind that on the 1500, the backplate actually has a very slight dip in one edge that the weatherseal compensates for. __________________ - Rich 2006 1600 Classic Member CORVA, BRC Patriot Guard Rider

05-17-2007	#159 (permalink)
jukief MSF instructor/Forum mum Extreme Forum Supporter Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Fort Collins, CO Posts: 17,868	I have the K&Ns and love them. __________________ 2002 Vulcan 1500 Classic FI Proud member of Spok's Azz Club (SAC#1) and BamaBob's Nit Pickers Club