Oil Burner Update (the sequel)

mloerts · 07-02-2009

A week or so ago I wrote about a kZ1000 ltd that laid out a huge grey smoke screen when I accelerated coming out of hard turns. Well, I followed the advice all ya'all gave me and didn't tear into it. That was good advice. Here's what happened.

1. The "carb guy" dumped a whole can of Sea Foam into 1/2 tank of gas.
2. The oil smelled burnt, was black/brown color, and "watery". More like brake fluid viscosity than the 10w30 the guy put in it.

SO........

1. I drained the tank and put in fresh 93oct.
2. I changed oil and filter putting in VAL 20w50 dino.

Took the bike out and rode it hard on twisties and NO smoke !!!!!! The only time it puffs anything is when it cold starts, then it's more of a whispy white that quits after a second or two.

Weird........ but consistent with some of the stories you all shared.
Thanks !!!!
Martin

RichLockyer · 07-03-2009

10w30 is too light... especially for an air-cooled bike, unless you live in Nunavut... and even then, it really should be an MC-specific 5w30 (pretty much impossible to find in the US).

The fact that it's still smoking means that the problem isn't fixed... it's just slowed down with the heavier oil. The 10w30 that was in there, depending on how long, has probably sheared down to a 15-20wt. The smoking will worsen as the 20w50 shears down. Be sure to keep an eye on the plugs for oil fouling.

How many miles are on the bike? Has it ever been stored for an extended period (especially outdoors), and if so, what procedure was used to restart it? If it was stored and moisture in the air formed rust on the sleeves, if it was just kicked over with the starter, it could have a broken ring. Proper restoration if the engine shows any resistance to turning over by hand would be to remove the plugs, soak the cylinders in PB Blaster, then GENTLY rock the pistons loose.

High mileage? Could be valve guides, or the rings simply may be shot.

sfair · 07-03-2009

If you perform a leak down test, it will tell you "exactly" where you stand; no more guess work. If it passes, you have a nice solid engine to drive where you like, if it is marginal, then a decision can be made on what to do in the future.
10w30 in an air cooled engine is certainly a concern, but in an engine with a built up crank... I just would not feel comfortable!

Lawn Masters · 07-03-2009

10W30 is definitely too light. I wont run lighter than 15W40 in my bikes. I'm just uncomfortable with any other weight of oil.

mloerts · 07-03-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichLockyer

10w30 is too light... especially for an air-cooled bike, unless you live in Nunavut... and even then, it really should be an MC-specific 5w30 (pretty much impossible to find in the US).

The fact that it's still smoking means that the problem isn't fixed... it's just slowed down with the heavier oil. The 10w30 that was in there, depending on how long, has probably sheared down to a 15-20wt. The smoking will worsen as the 20w50 shears down. Be sure to keep an eye on the plugs for oil fouling.

How many miles are on the bike? Has it ever been stored for an extended period (especially outdoors), and if so, what procedure was used to restart it? If it was stored and moisture in the air formed rust on the sleeves, if it was just kicked over with the starter, it could have a broken ring. Proper restoration if the engine shows any resistance to turning over by hand would be to remove the plugs, soak the cylinders in PB Blaster, then GENTLY rock the pistons loose.

High mileage? Could be valve guides, or the rings simply may be shot.

I bought the bike used 2 years ago. It was pieced together, so the 22,000 miles on the odometer is probably not from this bike. I sold it to someone a year ago that rode it daily, until 2 weeks ago. He didn't want it anymore and I bought it back. It has been out of my hands for the first 27 years, in my hands for one year, out for the year after that and now back in my hands again. I could not believe what the guy I sold it to told me about the Sea Foam and the oil, so I asked his "carb guy" and he confirmed it. WOW !!! I run Mobil 1 full syn 15w50 in my V Star and my xs 1100, and swear by it...... Anyway, It has not been stored, at least not for the past 2 years I have known about it. It's been a daily rider. I will do a bleed down / comp test and see what that tells me. Any tips on the bleed down unique to this engine?
Thanks for all the help !!!
Martin

Bill Frazier · 07-04-2009

Kawasaki recommends 10W40, 10W50, 20W40 or 20W50 for these engines. Any xW30 is too light.
I originally used 20W50, found that 10W40 made shifting gears a little easier, and lately changed to 15W40 mainly to avoid the "energy conserving" additives that can cause clutch slippage.

sfair · 07-04-2009

Here is a pretty good description of a leak down test. It eliminates any variances connected with cranking speed, compression releases, etc. Really the best way to go; it would be money well spent in your case, I believe.

WC Engineering : Compression and Leak Down Testing

07-02-2009	#1 (permalink)
mloerts '80 1000B LTD Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 10	Oil Burner Update (the sequel) A week or so ago I wrote about a kZ1000 ltd that laid out a huge grey smoke screen when I accelerated coming out of hard turns. Well, I followed the advice all ya'all gave me and didn't tear into it. That was good advice. Here's what happened. 1. The "carb guy" dumped a whole can of Sea Foam into 1/2 tank of gas. 2. The oil smelled burnt, was black/brown color, and "watery". More like brake fluid viscosity than the 10w30 the guy put in it. SO........ 1. I drained the tank and put in fresh 93oct. 2. I changed oil and filter putting in VAL 20w50 dino. Took the bike out and rode it hard on twisties and NO smoke !!!!!! The only time it puffs anything is when it cold starts, then it's more of a whispy white that quits after a second or two. Weird........ but consistent with some of the stories you all shared. Thanks !!!! Martin Last edited by mloerts : 07-04-2009 at 12:00 AM.

07-03-2009	#2 (permalink)
RichLockyer Patriot Guardian Extreme Forum Supporter Join Date: May 2006 Location: Chino, CA Posts: 28,016	10w30 is too light... especially for an air-cooled bike, unless you live in Nunavut... and even then, it really should be an MC-specific 5w30 (pretty much impossible to find in the US). The fact that it's still smoking means that the problem isn't fixed... it's just slowed down with the heavier oil. The 10w30 that was in there, depending on how long, has probably sheared down to a 15-20wt. The smoking will worsen as the 20w50 shears down. Be sure to keep an eye on the plugs for oil fouling. How many miles are on the bike? Has it ever been stored for an extended period (especially outdoors), and if so, what procedure was used to restart it? If it was stored and moisture in the air formed rust on the sleeves, if it was just kicked over with the starter, it could have a broken ring. Proper restoration if the engine shows any resistance to turning over by hand would be to remove the plugs, soak the cylinders in PB Blaster, then GENTLY rock the pistons loose. High mileage? Could be valve guides, or the rings simply may be shot. __________________ - Rich 2006 1600 Ultra-Classic Patriot Guard Rider *Please put your bike year/model in your sig line or fill in your profile before asking for help.*

07-03-2009	#4 (permalink)
Lawn Masters hates stupidity BTK Expert Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: New Port Richey FL Posts: 2,108	10W30 is definitely too light. I wont run lighter than 15W40 in my bikes. I'm just uncomfortable with any other weight of oil. __________________ ZedX 1k owner. henceforth The bike shall be Zed.

07-04-2009	#6 (permalink)
Bill Frazier Foil Inspector BTK Beginner Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Holbrook, Mass. Posts: 114	Kawasaki recommends 10W40, 10W50, 20W40 or 20W50 for these engines. Any xW30 is too light. I originally used 20W50, found that 10W40 made shifting gears a little easier, and lately changed to 15W40 mainly to avoid the "energy conserving" additives that can cause clutch slippage. __________________ Bill Frazier 1982 KZ440LTD Original owner

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07-03-2009	#3 (permalink)
sfair Can't find time to ride BTK Expert Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 663	If you perform a leak down test, it will tell you "exactly" where you stand; no more guess work. If it passes, you have a nice solid engine to drive where you like, if it is marginal, then a decision can be made on what to do in the future. 10w30 in an air cooled engine is certainly a concern, but in an engine with a built up crank... I just would not feel comfortable!

07-04-2009	#7 (permalink)
sfair Can't find time to ride BTK Expert Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 663	Here is a pretty good description of a leak down test. It eliminates any variances connected with cranking speed, compression releases, etc. Really the best way to go; it would be money well spent in your case, I believe. WC Engineering : Compression and Leak Down Testing

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