Can you shift a 84 ninja 900 WITHOUT clutching

[kyle_hensley]

Can you shift a 84 ninja 900 WITHOUT clutching. Anyone know if so is there any problems that will arise from doing this?

[steell]

Well, if you do it continuously you'll probably break one or more of the dogs, and may round them off before that. I imagine it's a little hard on shift forks also.

As far as I know, you can shift any manual transmission without using the clutch, some are easier than others though

[kawpaul]

I only use the clutch to take off and have been riding for years with no transmission issues. Since most bikes are constant mesh it does no harm to them as long as you let off throttle before shifting. I will use the clutch to downshift, but it can be done without clutch if you blip the throttle. If you just stomp it down without blipping the throttle you could break traction. And repeated riding like this can do damage to the engagement dogs.

It was a strange idea when I first read about it in cycle magazine about 30 years ago. But after trying it I saw there was no grinding or anything so I continued doing it. If you get any grinding then you are not doing it right.

[kopcicle]

How much do you like your transmission ? I'd expect loud noises and catastrophic results eventually . A compromise is to wire the horn button as a momentary contact ignition disconnect through a relay . Apply pressure under the shift lever under acceleration then push the button as you want to shift. It takes a little practice but you'll catch on .This momentarily removes load from the gearbox and allows the trans to shift . Still expect a short lifespan for the trans.

~kop

[kawpaul]

I have been clutchless since the 70s with no ill issues. Street bikes, dirt bikes, atvs too. Have split a few cases replacing crank bearings and never noticed any wear of the dogs or engagement slots from riding like this. So I will go by my experience plus a few others that I know. No offense but unless you have firsthand knowledge then you are just assuming.

[kopcicle]

Originally Posted by kawpaul

(snip) No offense but unless you have firsthand knowledge then you are just assuming.

None taken .
I do have first hand experience replacing the 2nd gear pair in variety of bikes including this one . Then again like you I have seen others and ridden myself without using the clutch for upshift w/o incident . My best practical advice for the street is to use the clutch . In a competition environment that all changes . 1 /100 of a second lost or gained every time you upshift is significant .

I come from a multi manufacture professional mechanic background that began in the 70's and only ended with terminal burnout several years ago.
If you were to cut me I'd more likely bleed Kawi green but on other days it may be Yami yella . I've attended service schools for all the big four as well as well as any other that will have me .

We'll have to swap emails . I did some insane things to that 750 mill years ago you might be interested in .

~kop

[kawpaul]

Originally Posted by kopcicle

None taken .
I do have first hand experience replacing the 2nd gear pair in variety of bikes including this one . Then again like you I have seen others and ridden myself without using the clutch for upshift w/o incident . My best practical advice for the street is to use the clutch . In a competition environment that all changes . 1 /100 of a second lost or gained every time you upshift is significant .

I come from a multi manufacture professional mechanic background that began in the 70's and only ended with terminal burnout several years ago.
If you were to cut me I'd more likely bleed Kawi green but on other days it may be Yami yella . I've attended service schools for all the big four as well as well as any other that will have me .

We'll have to swap emails . I did some insane things to that 750 mill years ago you might be interested in .

~kop

So I know who's brain to pick.
I am probably going to keep it stock at least until next spring and if things work out I may do some mods. But I would hang on to the stock items just in case I decided to get rid of it.

Regarding the clutchless shifting you are correct a lot of people do it when under power, and abuse like that will take it's toll. I have seen a few bikes for sale that said needed 2nd gear and automatically I knew what kind of rider they were. But if you roll off the throttle before shifting like I stated then it will not hurt anything. I do it because it is easier and saves wear and tear on clutch and cable. I do not ride abusive but have been known to let it rip in the past to see what it would do. But at 53 those days are behind me. I was actually looking for more of a standard type bike but got such a good deal on this one I jumped on it. I like the size too. I did not want anything over 1000 cc and do not care for the custom stretched out riding style. I have a few friends who have those and I prefer my feet under me. But the gpz is like a standard with pegs more rear-set. And my last bike was an interceptor so I am used to that.

[Polar_Bus]

Originally Posted by kyle_hensley

Can you shift a 84 ninja 900 WITHOUT clutching. Anyone know if so is there any problems that will arise from doing this?

You can shift any "constant mesh" type motorcycle tranny clutchless. However like others commented, you are adding accelerated wear to the dog gears when shifting under WOT loading, and when/if the tips of the dogs get slightly worn, the tranny can jump out of gear under heavy loading.

I have a CR125 powered shifter race kart, and shift WOT @ 12,300 rpm's clutchless. Motocross transmissions are specifically designed to be shifted hard clutchless, so the shift dogs are extra heavy duty, and can take the abuse.

[kawpaul]

I'm gonna retract my earlier statement here if you don't mind.
While discussing this with my son earlier today he pointed out something that I had overlooked. I went over the discussion a bit and mentioned it was a ninja to which he replied that people do not get those bikes to ride easy and they are most likely going to abuse them.

So no to clutchless speedshifting.

[txturbo]

any manual transmission can be shifted without the clutch. I always only use the clutch to take off and stop. Shifting between the gears just requires a slight blip of the throttle and can be done at any speed, not just WOT.

[Ericthejet]

Apply upward pressure on the shifter as you accelerate.
A slight "blip" on the throttle and the bike will pick up the next gear.

Smoother than using the clutch is done correctly.
I do not ever recall of anyone blowing up anything critical trying this technique.

[elr658]

You CAN upshift clutchless. I can also rebuild transmissions. You want to know how I learned? Rebuilding transmissions for those who upshift clutchless.

A 900 Ninja? Done 20 of those AT LEAST. Stuff's getting rare. Don't tempt fate. You'll lose.

[kawpaul]

If you are not under power when you shift it will do no harm.

[BrianT]

Originally Posted by kyle_hensley

Can you shift a 84 ninja 900 WITHOUT clutching. Anyone know if so is there any problems that will arise from doing this?

If you dont like to use the clutch you should of bought a vintage hondamatic LOL Just messin with ya.

[Lawn Masters]

I have ridden bikes where I shift clutchless, and I've seen people providing information supporting the claims that it wont harm anything IF DONE PROPERLY,

BUT and this is a big but. There is a clutch for a reason. In my mechanically inclined opinion, if you use the clutch and dont race, you're not going to hurt ANYTHING. I'd rather leave the clutchless stuff to the racers with spare parts and factory backing to rebuild after each race.

[BrianT]

I agree 100% expecially when my bike was only made for 2 years LOL

[kawpaul]

I still maintain if done correctly there is no problem with potential damage. This comes from shifting clutchless for 30+ years. The quote below that I got from a different forum illustrates the point.

I haven't used the clutch on my bikes for years on the road or track, up or down the box and haven't had any problems.
Every time you disengage and re-engage the clutch it is slipping causing wear, heat and polluting your oil with clutch material.
Of course, like everything you have to make the effort to learn to do it correctly. Done incorrectly you'll bend forks at the least and possibly wear the dogs. I've got over 60,000kms of road and racing on my SRAD GSXR (bought new) and it stills shifts better than any Honda box I've used.

Also this article from sports rider is a good read on the subject.
Clutchless Shifting - Sport Rider Magazine Online

[steell]

To what degree are you willing to accept accelerated wear? And doing it the way it's described in the linked article will cause accelerated wear, at a minimum to the shift forks (preload shifter for 3-4 seconds on every shift).

It may well take 20 - 30 years for the wear to become apparent, but my youngest bike is 24 years old already, and parts are becoming hard to find.


TxTurbo, take a look at the shock rubbers inside your clutch basket on your 750 Turbo, mine are destroyed from the previous owner drag racing it and not using the clutch. Sometimes life just doesn't match the magazine articles for all of us.

I have old bikes, and I want to keep, and ride, them, and parts are getting scarce, so I'll use the clutch.

My take for what it's worth, I don't own anyone else's bike so do as you like

[elr658]

Complete agreement with my go to KZ750 Twin guy.

Kyle, if you have to ask, you don't have the skill. Sorry to be a Cheney.