cylinder #4 not firing

[Mike900]

LOL - That's the way it works. You only have two coils but need spark to four cylinders.

[StarGate]

LOL, it's called waste spark. Meaning both wires fire, but one is firing on the exhaust stroke (waste), while the other fires on the compression stroke. If you think it needs to complete the circuit to the other wire, just try sticking your finger in that wire you have unplugged and see if it completes the circuit by surging through your body to your grounded feet.

[scaldwellk]

Originally Posted by StarGate

Where did you find this theory?

Would like to know also?

[Mike900]

Originally Posted by StarGate

LOL, it's called waste spark. Meaning both wires fire, but one is firing on the exhaust stroke (waste), while the other fires on the compression stroke. If you think it needs to complete the circuit to the other wire, just try sticking your finger in that wire you have unplugged and see if it completes the circuit by surging through your body to your grounded feet.

Are you saying I can pull the plug wire off #1 & #4 will still fire?
If so, I have $100 that says you are wrong.

[Mike900]

Click on the following link & read the third paragraph under "Distributorless ignition systems".
Ignition System

[scaldwellk]

Originally Posted by Mike900

Click on the following link & read the third paragraph under "Distributorless ignition systems".
Ignition System

Thanks for the link. Still learning new things everyday.

[kawpaul]

I seriously doubt that should one plug fail to fire then you would be operating on one cylinder. Yet that is what you are saying. Also the spark does not travel through the cylinder head. It would ground out should that happen.

[Mike900]

Originally Posted by kawpaul

I seriously doubt that should one plug fail to fire then you would be operating on one cylinder. Yet that is what you are saying. Also the spark does not travel through the cylinder head. It would ground out should that happen.

I guess you didn't read the link that I posted & I have no idea what you mean about running on one cylinder. He has a four cylinder engine & I said if he pulls the #4 spark plug wire then #1 will also quit. That still leaves two cylinders running.

PS - I've done this on mine.

[kopcicle]

gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaacccccccccccck

let us walk out to my 80' with the dyna coils and 16v system . I'll disconnect #4 spark plug wire and stick #1 in your pocket . we will then verify that removing #4 spark plug wire does not also disable #1 .

Now on the 12 V side , yes , disconnecting the 1-4 coil from the harness does disable #1 and #4 (well yeah) .

Has anyone checked the valve clearances on this bike yet ? Has anyone mentioned that with just a little effort and a flashlight you can get an indication of valve condition just by removing a sparkplug and looking down the hole while slowly rotating the engine ?

~kop

[StarGate]

Originally Posted by Mike900

Are you saying I can pull the plug wire off #1 & #4 will still fire?
If so, I have $100 that says you are wrong.

I'll take that bet.
1. Yes I read your link.
2. It's an autozone automotive topic (need I say more).
3. Your link also states that "and the distributorless ignition system (introduced in the mid 80s)." and if you want to compare that to what bikes are running then you should check what the 73 KZ900 was running.
4. Nowhere in your link did I read where it said if one wire "fails/is not firing" the other side of that pair will not fire.

[Mike900]

I didn't say anything about your 80' with the dyna coils and 16v system. If it works the same as the stock system then try it yourself. I'd do it if we lived a little closer. All you really have to do is pull the wire & keep it far enough from the engine that it can't make the jump. Now start it & see how many exhaust pipes get hot.

stratgooroo - sorry this thread has gotten so far off track. I can tell you with 100% certainty that if I pull #4 wire that #1 will quit firing. I imagine you realize I'm correct since you're doing the same thing with the same results. If you have any doubt then connect a spare spark plug to the wire & rest the plug on the engine. My money says your idle will improve.

[Mike900]

StarGate - go out to your bike & try it. I'll be glad to PM you with my address so you can send me the money.

[StarGate]

I have a video for you as soon as I can figure out how to convert avi to something I can post. I'm assuming you know how an inductive timing light works and what the trigger is for the timing light to flash though. Of course if you have a different theory on what triggers the timing light then this video will not be of much use to you.

[StarGate]

Mike900, you suggested I go out to my bike and try it. Well just for your viewing pleasure I have gone to the trouble to make and post this video. Now if on your planet, an inductive timing light is triggered to flash differently than it is here on Earth, this video will not be proof for you that the other cylinder is still firing. If on the other hand your timing lights work the same as ours, then this should be sufficient proof to you that even though one wire is disconnected, the other will still fire.

YouTube - Plug firing test

P.S. cash, money order, or paypal will work just fine.

[stratgooroo]

Im still not sure that i have reached a conclusion of who is correct and who is not but i appreciate the spirited debate. i was wondering about the valve issue and how i would know whether or not the valve and valve clearance is good

[Mike900]

I've been trading emails with Dynatek's tech support. I'll see if I can get permission to post the reply's tomorrow. Due to their confidential clause & needing the answer to a couple more questions I'm just going to give a real quick summary for now.
According to them the coil senses which cylinder is on the compression stroke & the spark travels down that wire, through the cylinder head & back up the other wire. So apparently the voltage is constantly switching which wire it travels down. I suspect this is just the path of least resistance due to the compressed fuel/air mixture. The switching between wires sure surprised me.

StarGate - I'm not sure what to make of your results with the timing light. I'll try a few things on my bike tomorrow.

[kawpaul]

Originally Posted by Mike900

I guess you didn't read the link that I posted & I have no idea what you mean about running on one cylinder. He has a four cylinder engine & I said if he pulls the #4 spark plug wire then #1 will also quit. That still leaves two cylinders running.

PS - I've done this on mine.

Yeah I read that link. Auto zone...nuff said.

The one cylinder comment was meant two. Was kind of rushing without checking. I have replaced auto coils where I had a dead miss on one (1) cylinder. The other did not quit working just because its twin did. And as I posted earlier the fire cannot pass through the head like that.

Try pulling one plug wire off the plug from each coil and see if all four fail to fire. Because according to your theory that would kill any fire to the plugs.

[kawpaul]

Originally Posted by Mike900

I've been trading emails with Dynatek's tech support. I'll see if I can get permission to post the reply's tomorrow. Due to their confidential clause & needing the answer to a couple more questions I'm just going to give a real quick summary for now.
According to them the coil senses which cylinder is on the compression stroke & the spark travels down that wire, through the cylinder head & back up the other wire. So apparently the voltage is constantly switching which wire it travels down. I suspect this is just the path of least resistance due to the compressed fuel/air mixture. The switching between wires sure surprised me.

StarGate - I'm not sure what to make of your results with the timing light. I'll try a few things on my bike tomorrow.

Someone is pulling your leg. The spark goes down the wire and fires the plug. This energy is used to ignite the air/fuel mixture. The center electrode of the plug is not grounded or it would not work. There has to be a gap so the current will arc and produce the spark needed to ignite the fuel charge. Should the current cycle through the head then you would get shocked if you touched any part of the engine or anything grounded to it.

[Mike900]

I see you're having a real hard time believing this & don't know how we can help. I 1st saw it in a Chilton's manual for a 1989 GM 3800. I just found it on Autozone last night & got the reply back from Dynatek today. I'm sure there's tons of articles if you hit up Google.

[StarGate]

Originally Posted by Mike900

According to them the coil senses which cylinder is on the compression stroke & the spark travels down that wire, through the cylinder head & back up the other wire. So apparently the voltage is constantly switching which wire it travels down. I suspect this is just the path of least resistance due to the compressed fuel/air mixture. The switching between wires sure surprised me.

First you believe a post where their research has lead them to believe the distributorless ignition didn't come out till the mid 80's, and now you are going to go with someone telling you that a primary and secondary winding, bundled in some ABS plastic, is some how "sensing" which cylinder is on the compression stroke. Then, even though it doesn't contain a switch, is able to switch which wire fires. Or maybe you're saying it has a switch that reverses polarity. I guess the second description sorta blows the first one out of the water since they maintain that it works differently than that.

Originally Posted by Mike900

StarGate - I'm not sure what to make of your results with the timing light.

I was afraid that the inductive timing light might not work the same way on your planet, and I see now that it doesn't. Since we obviously live in different worlds, I will stop trying to convince you of how things work in this one and let you go about your buisness. Have a good one.