Seafoam

[Schma]

So I put some seafoam in my 440 earlier today about 1/4 of the can and filled up the tank. She started right up like normal and I took off to take it for a spin to get the gas going through the carbs and what not.

White smoke started billowing out the exhausts which is normal, after riding about 10 miles (didn't have time for more at the time) I decided to let it sit for a while and do some work.

About an hour later I went to start it up and it tried to turn over, I get sparks when it turns and 12V through the coil.

It sputters a bit before it dies. I have full choke on, and tried it half choke. Thought I might have flooded the engine so I waited a bit and tried again, same thing.

Any suggestions?

[StarGate]

When is the last time the carbs were cleaned? If it's been a while-never, then the seafoam might have dislodged some trash or varnish in the carbs and causing some problems. You might try to open the drain screws on the bowls and drain a little fuel out. Catch the drained gas in a glass container and see what it looks like. If you get clean fuel then try starting it again.

What did you mean about the white smoke "normal"? Is the engine burning oil?

[Schma]

The friend I bought the bike from cleaned the carbs about 6 months ago. How well he cleaned them I am not sure.

What I meant by the white smoke is if you have a lot of dirt in the carbs and fuel lines then you will get a lot of smoke from the seafoam, at least that is what I have read, I have never used seafoam so not 100% sure.

Also brand new oil, I changed that on Wed.

Where is the drain to drain some of the fuel out of it?

[StarGate]

There should be a screw on the bottom of each float bowl. You only have to loosen it a few turns normally to let fuel drain from the bowl. Do not remove the screw completely.

[brown recluse]

How many miles on the bike and how well maintained is the motor? I had a friend who ran seafoam in an old Harley with high miles. It cleaned out the motor a little too well. Ended up losing compression after all the carbon build up blew out. On the other hand, I've also heard that it may just loosen up the valves. May need to check the clearances. On the 440 it is really easy to do.

[Schma]

The bike has 8600 miles on it, I am not sure how well maintained the bike was, it seems to be in decent shape. I am the third owner on it, my friends dad bought it new and then gave it to his son who let it sit for 10 years until he was making room in his shed and sold the bike to me, he cleaned the carbs out but just couldn't get it to run correctly so he sold it to me.

But up until about 6 months ago it sat for 10 years. Is there an easy way to check compression? I don't have the stuff to check the compression as all I have are ratchets and the normal tools.

[herk]

Checking the compression is easy. The auto parts store will have a tester for $10-20. Get one that has the threaded fitting that screws into the spark plug hole (14mm?).

Remove both spark plugs & install the tester into one of the spark plug holes.
Twist & hold the throttle wide open (WOT).
Press & hold the starter button for 5-8 seconds while watching the compression tester gauge. Note the pressure on each pulse of the gauge needle. It happens kinda fast, so you'll probably have to do it more than once.

If the carbs are off the bike, it's kinda handy to do the test then, since you won't have to fiddle with the throttle. Just make sure nothing gets sucked into the engine.

On my KZ650, it flutters at first, then the needle jumps to about 50-60 psi on the first pulse, then ~120 psi, then ~150 & maxes out somewhere above that (170-180... I don't remember).

[Schma]

Thanks for the info Herk I will go grab one tomorrow and test out the compression.

Once again, I thank everyone for their inputs, I will let you know how the testing goes tomorrow.

[brown recluse]

Before you go that far, have you tried some starting fluid? Remove the air box and spray just a little into the air intake. See if you can get the bike started. Don't go overboard. Starting fluid is not to be used all the time, but it may get the bike running long enough.

[Schma]

Originally Posted by StarGate

You might try to open the drain screws on the bowls and drain a little fuel out. Catch the drained gas in a glass container and see what it looks like. If you get clean fuel then try starting it again.
?

I undid the screws at the bottom of the float bowls and the gas that came out of the left one was a murky yellow. I let it sit for about 5 minutes while I tinkered with some other stuff and there was quite a bit of crap that had settled to the bottom of the container. Looks like I need to remove the carbs and clean them this week.

Originally Posted by brown recluse

Before you go that far, have you tried some starting fluid? Remove the air box and spray just a little into the air intake. See if you can get the bike started. Don't go overboard. Starting fluid is not to be used all the time, but it may get the bike running long enough.

So I went to do this and noticed that I don't have an air filter. I finally found a service manual for it and was looking at the air filter section and noticed that I am missing the whole air cleaner body that goes above the battery.

I have found a new air filter box and was wondering before I buy it if there is a good mod that one could do to to have better air intake instead of the generic air filter.

[brown recluse]

These bikes are fairly sensitive with what you do to the carburetor to affect the air and gas flow. I've read that some people have tried to modify bikes of that vintage with pods, but then had to restrict the air flow to get everything just right.

The air box that you are looking at, does it have the air cleaner too? It is a triangular shaped wire frame. (At least it was on my '81 440 LTD) The reason I ask is because I think I have one laying around. It needs a foam air cleaner element, but I have been able to just use one intended to be for a lawnmower.

[herk]

Before you do anything else, install the stock airbox & air filter.

Also....

By the gringo: .... Just to insure your bike is living up to it's potential I want you to check one thing and it will only take about 2 minutes. Open up your seat and grab the rear of the air filter and try to lift it up. If it moves up you have it installed wrong. There is a slot in the air box at the bottom that the filter must slip into prior to attaching the top 2 screws. It makes a world of difference on the 440 in how the bike runs.

[Schma]

Originally Posted by herk

Before you do anything else, install the stock airbox & air filter.

I plan on ordering one tomorrow, there is a salvage yard that has two KZ440s, whether they are the LTDs or not I don't know, so I am going to check it out tomorrow.

[Fahrfrumworkken]

Did you check with your friend to see if he might have forgotten to reinstall the airbox when he cleaned the carbs? Heck you might get lucky.

[Schma]

Originally Posted by Fahrfrumworkken

Did you check with your friend to see if he might have forgotten to reinstall the airbox when he cleaned the carbs? Heck you might get lucky.

Yeah I did, he just assumed that he could run it without the air filter so he never bothered getting one.

[herk]

Not sure if it's been mentioned...
The KZ440 w stock carbs needs the stock airbox to run right.
That model is very difficult if not impossible to tune without it.

[klx678]

Originally Posted by Schma

I undid the screws at the bottom of the float bowls and the gas that came out of the left one was a murky yellow. I let it sit for about 5 minutes while I tinkered with some other stuff and there was quite a bit of crap that had settled to the bottom of the container. Looks like I need to remove the carbs and clean them this week.



So I went to do this and noticed that I don't have an air filter. I finally found a service manual for it and was looking at the air filter section and noticed that I am missing the whole air cleaner body that goes above the battery.

I have found a new air filter box and was wondering before I buy it if there is a good mod that one could do to to have better air intake instead of the generic air filter.

First point is that either the Seafoam has cleaned old crud out of the tank or it has done so with the carbs.

I have little faith in it when someone tells me "the carbs have been rebuilt/cleaned" unless they had an actual reputable known mechanic do the job. The previous owner of my Zephyr told me the carbs were cleaned and sync'ed, but when I took it apart the throttle cable was so far out of position it took a 90 degree turn to the linkage and the base carb was obviously visually out of synch with the others, as was proven when balancing gages were put on it.

Tearing apart and spraying out carbs may not do the job. Washing in a carb cleaner does much better. You may need a known carb cleaning job from a mechanic you know can do the job right.

On the other hand when it comes to the tank, I'd drain the tank and refill with some fresh gas and see how it does. While the tank is empty I'd also look in the tank to see if there's rust. If there is rust have it cleaned out and coated by a radiator/fuel tank repair shop clean and coat it.

White smoke also can be an indicator of water in the fuel too, as can that murky fuel from the carbs.