Having an Electrical Mistery.. Any answers will be welcome

[Andrew231989]

I own a 1981 kz440 ltd. D1 belt drive. Here is my problem: Every time i start my bike it runs for a around 5-10 minutes and will stop running. The bike will still turn over and i have check for spark with no spark present at the time it shuts off. I have replaced the CDI, Coil, Regulator/Rectifier,pick up coil, and a numerous length of wiring to these components.

MY only Real Question Is ( and this might sound stupid.) but i took a reading of my battery volage after i had ran it and let it die and when sitting and the key off it reads a nice 12 volts and the with the key on and the bike not running this will drop down to only 8 volts. Could this mean that i have a bad battery and could that be causing my engines ignition problems.


According to my book it claims that if this condition were present. I would have weak spark and that my rectifier would be working too hard. Thus presenting an overloaded condidtion and burning it out. Consequently harming the CDI because of the AC current present in the bike.

IF ANYONE HAVE AN IDEA ABOUT THIS BATTERY PROBLEM, I WILL TRY TO CHARGE IT. But i am not sure how to test if it will hold the charge. PLEASE LET ME KNOW.. THANKS A TON

[zoro]

Use a "Hydrometer" to test the individual cells in the battery.

[StarGate]

+1

You can pick one up at most auto parts for $5 and eliminate the guesswork.

[OKC_Kent]

Andrew,
You should also check the stator output and make sure it is producing the right amount of voltage. You don't mention if you tested the components you replaced, just that you replaced them...did you replace them because they tested bad and needed replacing, or did you replace them because you couldn't think of anything else to do?

You could have a bad connection that will not allow the battery to fully charge, and then 10 minutes later the battery gives up; it can't fire the ignition anymore, so no spark, no running engine.

Start the bike and measure the voltage across the battery terminals at idle, should be in the neighborhood of 13.0v~13.5v. Then rev it to 4000-4500 rpm and measure the battery, you should see around 14.5v . What do you get?

[MFolks]

I'd suggest removing the cover over where the sprocket would be on a bike with a chain and check the wiring. The "Bullet" stye connectors can get corrosion and that reduces the current/voltage going to the charging system.

Any green crud on the many and various electrical connectors greatly reduces the bikes operating systems like dim lights,turn signals operating slowly, and battery problems.

Get some electrical contact cleaner(Not WD-40!!) from Radio Shack or any other electronics/electrical supply store, spray the open connections and work them in a make/disconnect action to scrub any corrosion off the pins.

[ArthurGoVroom]

You might also have your battery load tested. You can buy load testers pretty cheap (about $40 I think) at Harbor freight, they make one for small batteries like lawn & garden stuff. You might also be able to take it to a shop and they can test it for you. Be sure to charge it first, it has to be fully charged in order to load test.

[Andrew231989]

Originally Posted by OKC_Kent

Andrew,
You should also check the stator output and make sure it is producing the right amount of voltage. You don't mention if you tested the components you replaced, just that you replaced them...did you replace them because they tested bad and needed replacing, or did you replace them because you couldn't think of anything else to do?

You could have a bad connection that will not allow the battery to fully charge, and then 10 minutes later the battery gives up; it can't fire the ignition anymore, so no spark, no running engine.

Start the bike and measure the voltage across the battery terminals at idle, should be in the neighborhood of 13.0v~13.5v. Then rev it to 4000-4500 rpm and measure the battery, you should see around 14.5v . What do you get?

i have tested all of my components that i have replaced, the only one that i cant think of testing yet is when it is running and the battery voltage is at the 13.0 or .5 you descrebed, usually i haent been able to run it smothly enough to get a reading for this but i will try my best. when the engine diesw without spark present after it dies for about 10min. The motor will still turn over just fine. I have no clue. I have tried to test that confounded CDI box but have no idea what a new one will read or really what it should in ohms resistance testing.

[Andrew231989]

Originally Posted by MFolks

I'd suggest removing the cover over where the sprocket would be on a bike with a chain and check the wiring. The "Bullet" stye connectors can get corrosion and that reduces the current/voltage going to the charging system.

Any green crud on the many and various electrical connectors greatly reduces the bikes operating systems like dim lights,turn signals operating slowly, and battery problems.

Get some electrical contact cleaner(Not WD-40!!) from Radio Shack or any other electronics/electrical supply store, spray the open connections and work them in a make/disconnect action to scrub any corrosion off the pins.

i think i may have forgot to mention that the stator coil is also a component that i replaced i took it off of a parts bike and tested it for shorting and continuity in the wiring and according to the book so far its correct. the pins look good. i checked when i put the newer part on. the lights are a little dimer but my battery voltage hasent been the best.

[Andrew231989]

does anybody know what the ohms resistance tests should read for this year(1981) 44o CDI or Igniter box i haent the slightest clue if what i was told to be correct. So if anybdy has these figures that would also be helpful.

[sfair]

Like the others have said, the battery has to be good or else you will be chasing your tail all over the country trying to repair this problem.
With a fault like this, you have to start with the basics first. Throwing parts at it will only empty your wallet and bike still runs the same.

If your bike has running lights that come on with the key, you can do the following quick and dirty battery test:

1. Charge battery for 24hrs. with a 1 to 1.5 amp charger.
2. Let stand for 1 hour, check terminal voltage. Should be "at least" 12.4v.
3. Turn on key and monitor battery voltage. It will start to fall but should level off at 12v or above. If it continues to sag and goes below 12v, battery has one or maybe even two feet in the grave!

Post back with your results.

[Andrew231989]

Originally Posted by sfair

Like the others have said, the battery has to be good or else you will be chasing your tail all over the country trying to repair this problem.
With a fault like this, you have to start with the basics first. Throwing parts at it will only empty your wallet and bike still runs the same.

If your bike has running lights that come on with the key, you can do the following quick and dirty battery test:

1. Charge battery for 24hrs. with a 1 to 1.5 amp charger.
2. Let stand for 1 hour, check terminal voltage. Should be "at least" 12.4v.
3. Turn on key and monitor battery voltage. It will start to fall but should level off at 12v or above. If it continues to sag and goes below 12v, battery has one or maybe even two feet in the grave!

Post back with your results.

ok i put a brand new battery in it. And my charging system voltage is good. I took it(my bike) out again today. And ran it 7 miles at 4000 rpm which is about 50mph then it cut out. Battery volage was good. and i tested the rectifier it was good too. It had no spark after it died. My dad came and picked me up. 30 min later the bike started up. What should i look at first. i have replaced all of the wiring to my coil and its components. I dont even know what the figures are for resistance in CDI as i was only told by a friend. Could the igniter get hot and cut out then work again or could it be the coil. The motor seems to have a pre ignition case because i got to take off and then it kind of fades a little and comes back.

[StarGate]

Yes the CDI can do what you describe about getting hot then failing but will work again once it cools off. If you know for sure that the bike won't start/run after the failure for a certain amount of time (lets say 30 min), then you might try getting it to fail then quickly misting the cdi with water or blowing cool air over it to try and cool it quicker. If it restarts much quicker than normal doing this then you have a likely suspect. Have you verified that the coils still have the +12v at the input when the problem exist?

[kawpaul]

A bad coil will quit when it gets hot.

[sfair]

[quote=StarGate;1796958]Yes the CDI can do what you describe about getting hot then failing but will work again once it cools off. If you know for sure that the bike won't start/run after the failure for a certain amount of time (lets say 30 min), then you might try getting it to fail then quickly misting the cdi with water or blowing cool air over it to try and cool it quicker. QUOTE]

Or...you can take a hair dryer and play it over the ignitor and see if it will quit in your driveway.

I thought you said that you replaced the ignitor. What was wrong with the original?

[zoro]

Igniters are a series of diodes and solid state relays that take the AC impulse from the pick up coils and trigger another momentary open/close impulse to the ignition coils, thus, a high voltage spark. The diodes and relays in the igniter are suspended in an epoxy medium in the back of the igniter. Tiny and often invisible cracks can develop in that medium(for whatever reasons)and when the igniter gets hot,it expands and breaks the circuit necessary to energize and discharge the ignition coils. Now with that said,the previous posters are correct in that this,"works cold and fails hot" condition can exist in the ignition coils as well as in the igniter. Test the individual components cold and test them again hot to try and determine which is faulty. I bet its the igniter! Good Luck!

[MFolks]

Have you been to this website? THE KAWASAKI TWIN OWNERS FORUM :: View Forum - 400/440 Electrical

If your bike has the mechanical ignition advancer on the end of the crankshaft like the bigger older 4's do, you might be able to make a replacement for what you're calling a CDI, on the Kawasaki's of that vintage they had what was called a "IC Igniter" that actually gave the ignition coils their ground to fire and spark the sparkplugs.

A rider over at KZrider.com - Home has made a replacement using off the shelf GM ignition modules for his KZ 550 with two of them. He has run this set up for many mikes with no problem. Since you have a twin engined bike, I'd think just one module would do the job.If you decide to make this modification, I'd suggest using some RTV compound to provide moisture and shock resistance to the resistor and diode(s).

The website is:
General Motors HEI Ignition Module For GPZ550

[Andrew231989]

hey guys i should have looked at that page you requested for the Gm Ignition mod. I honestly didnt realize at the bottom of the page was the diagram for the twin models. I will give this a try right away and then if it dies i should know for sure that the coil is bad.

[Andrew231989]

i checked the ohms resistance at the high tension lead wires and with new plug caps it reads a little oer at about 21.8 cold is there any other way to test the coil cold to find out if it is bad in the secondary winding

[Andrew231989]

Originally Posted by Andrew231989

i checked the ohms resistance at the high tension lead wires and with new plug caps it reads a little oer at about 21.8 cold is there any other way to test the coil cold to find out if it is bad in the secondary winding

other than with the wires on for example but still in ohms.....

[StarGate]

Not sure if yours are going to have the same readings as mine but my service manual calls for 10.4-15.6K ohms w/o the caps.