Oil Filter Problem...

[squawk]

Oh no...so I decided to go ahead and drain the oil to take the ring out of the inside and figured since the ring wasn't on there to begin with (I thought that it went on the outside between the bolt washer and the cover) and didn't leak that I wouldn't mess with putting it back on. So a couple days later I checked it and it was leaking. So I drained it again and pulled the bolt out and when doing so noticked that the ring is actually connected to the bolt so I replaced it with the new o-ring that came with the filter and it fixed the leak. Great...no not so much I decided to look back at the parts diagram to see how the heck I missed it and noticed that the should also be a spring and washer between the plate and the filter. Um...there wasn't either that I saw. So should I worry about getting this spring and washer right away.

Also was it bad to drian the oil and put it right back in a bad idea or what? The first time I bought a brand new pan and cleaned it extremely well the second time. I know that it probably wasn't the best idea in the world but I couldn't afford new oil over and over again, $9.00 a quart ain't cheap. That's why I hope that I don't have to drain it again to put this stupid spring and washer in there.

[wdhewson]

Hey: Don't sweat reusing the oil. It sounds like you were careful. But screens and the filter would likely catch any unwanted debris before hitting sensitive engine parts. I worked in the lubricants industry for 30 years, and it is normal to have some sediment (from rust in pipes and mixers) at the bottom of every oil bottle. Check next time. By re-using your oil you probably avoided the dirty new oil. By the way, the same is true of oil filters, that is, new filters usually have some manufacturing debris in them. I change filters every 2 to 3 years, since a new filter is just a source of new debris, to a point. All food for thought.

[squawk]

Thank you for that information wdhewson...I would have never thought that but it really does make sense.

[herk]

I'm pretty sure you need the spring & washer to keep the oil filter in position so that it does what it's supposed to do. Otherwise, unfiltered oil might return to the engine. Make sure you lubricate the oil filter gaskets w motor oil prior to installation, so that the gaskets stay in position on the filter.

In 20+ yrs I've never seen sediment in an oil container (qt or gallon or whatever).
You can probably get away w changing the oil filter every other oil change if your change intervals are short. Otherwise, replace it at each oil change.

I usually use Shell Rotella-T 15W-40 motor oil. It's marketed as a heavy duty diesel engine oil. It's ZDP content is about the same as motorcycle oils. Chevron Delo & Valvoline Premium Blue are comparable. The Rotella is usually cheaper than regular car oils (~$12/gal). Keep in mind that we're talking about old motorcycles here. Not modern rockets/Twins.

[kellymak68]

hi guys i have an old kawaski 1100 ltd the bike has an cold idle miss and when its running down the road she starts to miss though the carbs but not all the time its got 42,000 km on it the compression is 150 psi on each cyl and the carbs have been cleaned twice this week . could it be the coils? please let me know. thanks

[StarGate]

Yes you need the spring and washer like herk said. If I remember correctly I think someone said it even helps maintain oil pressure to some extent which seems to make sense to me.

[StarGate]

Originally Posted by kellymak68

hi guys i have an old kawaski 1100 ltd the bike has an cold idle miss and when its running down the road she starts to miss though the carbs but not all the time its got 42,000 km on it the compression is 150 psi on each cyl and the carbs have cleaned twice this week . could it be the coils? please let me know. thanks

You need to start a new thread with your problem so it gets proper attention and doesn't take away from the thread owners problem.

[aaronrkelly]

kellymak68 - you need to start a new thread to get the proper response to your problem.....

squawk - that spring is necessary....how necessary - not sure. Its commonly thought to be hard on the bike to run it without the spring....despite that my mechanic says about half of all Kaws he takes apart is missing it.....even a couple of mine were missing when I changed the oil the first time. So its important.....but not sure HOW important.

I would get it corrected and maybe keep it to limited riding till you do.

[squawk]

WOW...that's not good. I wonder if the previous owner lost them when changing the oil. Or if they somehow got pushed up in to the old filter and I didn't notice them in it and through it away.

[Bill Frazier]

The spring and washer are what hold the oil filter in place. Without them, the oil can flow over the filter rather than through it, just like having no filter at all.
They are available for about $5 or less total from Kawasaki dealers.

[herk]

Here's a KZ650 oil flow diagram from the KZ650.Info website.
Your 750 engine is virtually identical.

[wdhewson]

Hi. Just a note on Shell Rotell -T HD engine oil. This will work, but I'd only use it in the Diesel that it is specifically formulated for. The very high detergent and dispersant levels to hold Diesel soot in suspension in the oil are a bit bad for wear. These cleanliness agents actully dis-able the ZnDDP (Zinc Dialkyl Dithio Phospahate) which is your main valve train anti-wear agent. This formlation compromise is not important in Diesels since almost all of these have roller followers for the cam lobes, but you bike doesn't.

[squawk]

Originally Posted by wdhewson

Hi. Just a note on Shell Rotell -T HD engine oil. This will work, but I'd only use it in the Diesel that it is specifically formulated for. The very high detergent and dispersant levels to hold Diesel soot in suspension in the oil are a bit bad for wear. These cleanliness agents actully dis-able the ZnDDP (Zinc Dialkyl Dithio Phospahate) which is your main valve train anti-wear agent. This formlation compromise is not important in Diesels since almost all of these have roller followers for the cam lobes, but you bike doesn't.

I do plan on sticking with the Oil I am currently using (Mobil 1) 10w-40 4Stroke Motorcycle Oil. I've used Mobil 1 in my Car for years and figured I would stick with it on my bike.

[Bill Frazier]

Both Rotella T HD and Motorcraft Super Duty Diesel 15W40 oils meet API SL specifications for gasoline engines. SE was the latest (best) spec for oil when my bike was manufactured. I have no qualms about using either in my bike. Of course, my opinion is worth exactly what you paid for it!

[RichLockyer]

Originally Posted by Bill Frazier

Both Rotella T HD and Motorcraft Super Duty Diesel 15W40 oils meet API SL specifications for gasoline engines. SE was the latest (best) spec for oil when my bike was manufactured. I have no qualms about using either in my bike. Of course, my opinion is worth exactly what you paid for it!

The Rotella showing up on the shelves is now rated SM, however, VOA as of last April (on an SM tagged bottle) still showed zinc and phorphorus levels around 1000ppm.

[V2K_CCTX]

If I use Rotella I use only the syn

[herk]

Originally Posted by squawk

I do plan on sticking with the Oil I am currently using (Mobil 1) 10w-40 4Stroke Motorcycle Oil. I've used Mobil 1 in my Car for years and figured I would stick with it on my bike.

That's a good plan.

Be sure to install the washer along w the oil filter spring.

[kawpaul]

Originally Posted by Bill Frazier

Both Rotella T HD and Motorcraft Super Duty Diesel 15W40 oils meet API SL specifications for gasoline engines. SE was the latest (best) spec for oil when my bike was manufactured. I have no qualms about using either in my bike. Of course, my opinion is worth exactly what you paid for it!

I want a refund.

[keith1]

Originally Posted by wdhewson

Hi. Just a note on Shell Rotell -T HD engine oil. This will work, but I'd only use it in the Diesel that it is specifically formulated for. The very high detergent and dispersant levels to hold Diesel soot in suspension in the oil are a bit bad for wear. These cleanliness agents actully dis-able the ZnDDP (Zinc Dialkyl Dithio Phospahate) which is your main valve train anti-wear agent. This formlation compromise is not important in Diesels since almost all of these have roller followers for the cam lobes, but you bike doesn't.

care to elaborate?....these oils are touted as the best for flat tappet engines
today because of their ZnDDp content.....car oils are now devoid of it for whatever reason.......so what you are saying is that in a flat tappet engine, the guys who engineered this stuff purposely formulated a high detergent content to counteract the benefits of the zinc.....i m so confused!!!

[wdhewson]

Keith1: I guess the best elaboration is to say that the 15 to 20 chemical additives in a typical engine oil have specific and sometimes conflicting effects. So if Rotella-T is primarily marketed as a HD Diesel engine oil, then its gasoline engine performance will be a secondary consideration. Also, cleanliness additives like deterrgents and dispersant are very necessay in sooty Deisels, but these additives make anti-wear agents like the ZnDDPs less effective. Regarding flat followers, think about the geometry of the cam on the flat follower. The cam has a base radius and increasingly smaller radii as you approach the lobe tip at maximum valve opening. The width of the line of contact between the cam and follower is pretty senstive to the radius of the cam, and that radius changes greatly from the base circle to the cam tip. So the fact that the follower is flat is geometrically meaningless, and it is often radiused as well. This whole topic falls under the subject of Hertzian contacts, and takes some study and math skills to grasp. But when you do this study, this whole flat follower issue is pretty well nonsense. Another thing to keep in mind is that good metallurgy will perform with long life with nearly any oil, and cheesey metals will not be helped by the best lubes. My parts inspections have led me to conclude that Kawasaki has the best metallurgy, then Suzuki, with Yamaha and Honda tied for last place. I'm sure to have added to your confusion.