Got my GPz1100 back from the shop !!!

[Polar_Bus]

It's been over 2 months of waiting, but worth the wait! To recap my issue, I started noticing an elevated level of oil burning and I also started hearing a slight tick in the top end of my GPz. After a top end tear down, what we thought to be a simple intake valve seal replacement turned much worse. The #1 cylinder had siezed a valve to the valve guide, and trashed the cylinder head. After some research and a few phone calls, I got hooked up with a performance drag race shop in North Carolina called Carolina Cycle.

Carolina Cycle - Contact

I had a awesome conversation with the owner Kim Barringer and he was well aware of the issue with my GPz, seems as though it was an issue with many GPz1100's (as the 1100's utilize a low pressure oiling system). Long story short, CC installed special .501" oversized valve guides, and gave me a fresh valve facing all for under $400 !!! I just got the bike back this past weekend, and put on about 65 break-in miles, and the bike runs absolutely perfect... I was SO worried my GPz would not be able to be repaired, and I would have to seek out a replacement head (and '83-'84 GPz1100 heads are extremly rare). Here's a few current pics of my clean, original GPz:

[kawpaul]

It is a lovely sight to behold.
Glad you got it back and running well.

[MFolks]

These older Kz's and GPz's have a 2.8 to 3 PSI oil pressure due to having a roller bearing crankshaft.

[ratvespa]

looks good!

sounds like you had about the same problems with you GPz as I did with my 82 GPz1100. started burning oil real bad, so I went to replace the valve guide seals with the head on the bike, no 2 ex valve guide dropped out. took the head to machine shop, they had it for a month or 2, then I got it back, realized they broke my cam cap (along with about 4 other things they screwed up), took it back, had it for a few more weeks then went out of business (with my head stuck in their shop!). FINALLY got it back, and together, and has been running solid for a week so far. I guess the valve guides are kinda common problem with those, I ended up putting APE over sized bronze guides in all the ex valves.

[sidy]

I have an 83 model that seams to be using excessive oil but not burning smoke as far as I can tell....

[kopcicle]

Originally Posted by sidy

I have an 83 model that seams to be using excessive oil but not burning smoke as far as I can tell....

Sid , If it isn't using oil there isn't any in it ..

~kop

[kopcicle]

Polar_Bus That is one clean example of air cooled big block Kawasaki mayhem !

~kop

[sidy]

Originally Posted by kopcicle

Sid , If it isn't using oil there isn't any in it ..

~kop

It has plenty of oil... I check this bike religiously as I am not 100% confident of its running status, unlike the other bikes I have in the stable. It does not leak any as there is no oil pool under the bike.

[kopcicle]

Sid , I'll elaborate . All the Z's use/loose oil to some extent . Gen III "J" engines are most notorious for their oil consumption . These are air cooled engines who's bores don't get to full size or round until reaching full operating temperature . Most of the consumption is due to dilution from combustion byproducts and gets blown out the breather as a fine mist to be inhaled through the intake . Some also gets by the valve guides which is a good thing as the ones that don't leak past the valves tend to seize a valve now and then . (see the original post). Last but not least there is a fair bit of crankcase pressure that forces oil vapor past the rings on the intake stroke , Add to this the fact that the normal oil window full line places the oil level in contact with the clutch basket and you have quite the frothy mess of oil whose vapors tend to escape wherever and when ever they can . One of the major reasons for liquid cooling was to stabilize operating temperatures so that tighter clearances could be used throughout the engine significantly reducing oil consumption .
I run my "j" engines oil level at mid to low line in the window and change it often .

~kop

[zoro]

Originally Posted by kopcicle

Sid , I'll elaborate . All the Z's use/loose oil to some extent . Gen III "J" engines are most notorious for their oil consumption . These are air cooled engines who's bores don't get to full size or round until reaching full operating temperature . Most of the consumption is due to dilution from combustion byproducts and gets blown out the breather as a fine mist to be inhaled through the intake . Some also gets by the valve guides which is a good thing as the ones that don't leak past the valves tend to seize a valve now and then . (see the original post). Last but not least there is a fair bit of crankcase pressure that forces oil vapor past the rings on the intake stroke , Add to this the fact that the normal oil window full line places the oil level in contact with the clutch basket and you have quite the frothy mess of oil whose vapors tend to escape wherever and when ever they can . One of the major reasons for liquid cooling was to stabilize operating temperatures so that tighter clearances could be used throughout the engine significantly reducing oil consumption .
I run my "j" engines oil level at mid to low line in the window and change it often .

~kop

+1! Well explained!

[Polar_Bus]

Originally Posted by kopcicle

I run my "j" engines oil level at mid to low line in the window and change it often .

~kop

Great post ! I have heard your exact "J" comments in Kawasaki "circles" of conversations. Your "run the oil level slighty low" is exactly what my Kawasaki tech advised me. On a side note, while we had the top end off, we ball honed the cyl, and replaced the rings. (even though the my GPz only has 8100 miles on it). I also noticed a unique issue with my GPz's pistons... the upper crown above the rings is coated with some type of goldish brown coating, i'm guessing anodized ?

[sidy]

Yep that makes a lot of sense..... thanks.

[sheldonbourgeoi]

Originally Posted by Polar_Bus

Great post ! I have heard your exact "J" comments in Kawasaki "circles" of conversations. Your "run the oil level slighty low" is exactly what my Kawasaki tech advised me. On a side note, while we had the top end off, we ball honed the cyl, and replaced the rings. (even though the my GPz only has 8100 miles on it). I also noticed a unique issue with my GPz's pistons... the upper crown above the rings is coated with some type of goldish brown coating, i'm guessing anodized ?

I believe its a heat dissapating coating. Kawasaki plugged the oil cooling jets on the later Gpz's and went to this heat dissapating coating on the pistons.

[kopcicle]

I've seen these engines stressed , defiled and broken in ways you may not be able to fathom . On one hand a lack of understanding as to their care and feeding and on the other attempting to get the last little bit of performance . I'll leave the lack of maintenance scenario to your own individual experience as by this time I'm sure we've all seen it . Most , umm , interesting failure ? Intake cam installation repeatedly abused to the point of ALL the cam cap retaining threads were sloppily heilicoiled . At extreme RPM the cam began to lift pulling all the retaining bolts out of the sloppy threads all at once . ALL 4 of the valve adjustment shims (that the owner had been told on many occasions to change to under bucket) "tiddley winked" their way out the rear of the head . The tops of three carbs were cleaned off , fragments were found in the battery and rear tire and the resulting fire was quickly put out by the safety safari . Estimated cost of the under bucket mod ? approx $250 . Extent of the damage $5000 plus and temporary heart failure of the rider . I heard the noise from not 1000 ft away it was loud . Moral ?(if any) know the devil your tempting and its capability for destructive forces .

~kop

[northernman]

Beautiful bike, glad its fixed for you.

[OzJavelin]

Hmm .. interesting issue with the valve seal. My GP750 is burning oil out the exhaust when cold (but not when hot) and I thought that it looked like valve stems, but compression testing seemed to indicate that the problem might be rings (No#3 cyl compression increase with oil added). Might be bit of both though?

[kopcicle]

Originally Posted by OzJavelin

Hmm .. interesting issue with the valve seal. My GP750 is burning oil out the exhaust when cold (but not when hot) and I thought that it looked like valve stems, but compression testing seemed to indicate that the problem might be rings (No#3 cyl compression increase with oil added). Might be bit of both though?

Try a compression test hot and cold . These things can realy fool ya . I once took an 1100 apart that didn't need it . When warm it sealed fine , go figure ?

Even better would be a leak down test hot and cold .

I don't mean to say that these things are a black art or some esoteric exorcise in murdercycle mayhem but there are areas that need a finer mind's eye . I use coper head and base gaskets not only for better heat transfer , sealing and reuse but because occasional under/over torque of the assembly will distort the cylinder walls on initial torque with composition gaskets . The copper gaskets give a more solid base and present less of a chance for inaccurate torque . I've taken apart my own builds after just several hundred miles on occasion and found "holidays" In the cylinder wear wear pattern where the rings weren't sealing . Just looking at the wear pattern the cylinders had been distorted by torque .
I remember eventually tossing all the studs out and pre stressing them with dummy head and block . I followed that with a torque plate and fixture to get the whole mess in a Sunnen CK10 . Finally I assembled the whole thing taking the torque up in 5 ft/lb increments . Ok , so it was a 1260cc on a Gen II case that really had no street application other than stupid fast in a straight line but the finer mind's eye still applies . Just look and think at it a bit more and the bike will either tell you or show you what it needs

~kop

[Kawafan]

These well looked after older bikes are a pleasure to look at,can't say the same about the modern day superbikes.

[zoro]

Originally Posted by Kawafan

These well looked after older bikes are a pleasure to look at,can't say the same about the modern day superbikes.

I couldnt have said it better myself! I know, them things kinda freak me out! ZX-Starwars!

[OzJavelin]

Originally Posted by kopcicle

Try a compression test hot and cold . These things can realy fool ya . I once took an 1100 apart that didn't need it . When warm it sealed fine , go figure ?

Even better would be a leak down test hot and cold .

I'll try .. but I don't like burning my fingers!

Originally Posted by kopcicle

I don't mean to say that these things are a black art or some esoteric exorcise in murdercycle mayhem but there are areas that need a finer mind's eye . I use coper head and base gaskets not only for better heat transfer , sealing and reuse but because occasional under/over torque of the assembly will distort the cylinder walls on initial torque with composition gaskets . The copper gaskets give a more solid base and present less of a chance for inaccurate torque . I've taken apart my own builds after just several hundred miles on occasion and found "holidays" In the cylinder wear wear pattern where the rings weren't sealing . Just looking at the wear pattern the cylinders had been distorted by torque .
I remember eventually tossing all the studs out and pre stressing them with dummy head and block . I followed that with a torque plate and fixture to get the whole mess in a Sunnen CK10 . Finally I assembled the whole thing taking the torque up in 5 ft/lb increments . Ok , so it was a 1260cc on a Gen II case that really had no street application other than stupid fast in a straight line but the finer mind's eye still applies . Just look and think at it a bit more and the bike will either tell you or show you what it needs

~kop

Sounds like the problems they were having here with the early GenIII V8 Chev engines in Holdens; i.e. alloy block/heads being honed without torque plates. As a LOT of these engines were sold with 6-speeds in "family" cars (Holden Commodore SS sedan) they were getting fairly rev'd, getting ring flutter and had distorted cylinder walls ... all added up to a reputation a bit of an oil burner