Still need help 78 KZ650

[shiftproduction]

I have practically rebuilt the engine (wasnt for nothing, piston rings were seized in the sleeves), but I tried to start it and I thought the starter was draining all the power from the battery. It makes a clicking sound and the lights go dim. So I changed the starter and charged the battery. Still the same so I finally took the bike out to roll it forward to see if I could jump it and the rear tire is locked. Brakes are okay, its in neutral. I didnt change the chain and I dont know of any prior tranny problems. Any speculations? I dont wanna part out this bike its beautiful.

[steell]

Does the rear tire roll at all? Even 1/2"? If not, then the problem is at the rear wheel and not motor/chain related, so check the brake again.

Have you removed the rear wheel or did it lock up just sitting there? If it locked up just sitting there then check the rear brake.

See if the brake pedal will move up and down, if not then the pivot is seized and you'll have to get it apart to lubricate it.

Unless you have removed and installed the rear wheel since the last time it rolled, then 90%+ probability it's brake related.

[shiftproduction]

Im gonna check the brake right now. I can move it from place to place but its hard to roll the bike because there rear tire barely rolls. I will check the brake but any specs on the engine? I correctly replaced the bad rings and even the pistons and the block. The crank moved because I did the timing but now when I go to start it, the battery just drains and the starter makes a clicking noise, even with the new starter. Battery is good. Maybe its another electronic part?

[StarGate]

If you're 100% sure it's a good fully charged battery I'd start looking at the battery cables and check for dirty/loose connections.

[steell]

The positive battery cable leaves the positive post of the battery and connects to a starter solenoid. Right next to where that cable bolts to the solenoid another cable bolts to the solenoid also. So there are two bolts on the end of the solenoid with two cables hooked to them. Take a screwdriver and short across those two terminals with a firm hand. At this point the motor should be cranking over, if it is, then the problem is the starter solenoid, if it's not, then we go further.

[sfair]

Originally Posted by steell

Take a screwdriver and short across those two terminals with a firm hand. At .

Wear eye protection when you do this!!!

[steell]

Originally Posted by sfair

Wear eye protection when you do this!!!

While agreeing that the wearing of eye protection is always a good thing (I wear prescription safety glasses all waking hours), I don't know of a specific reason this procedure would require it more than any other. It's not like it's an automotive starter that's going to pull 200-300 amps, more like 30 amps or so.

The amperage draw is so low that I've often used a key to short it, and I guarandamtee you I wouldn't do that on a car starter

[sfair]

Originally Posted by steell

It's not like it's an automotive starter that's going to pull 200-300 amps, more like 30 amps or so.

:

Until you accidently short the positive to ground, the starter is jammed or the is engine stuck. Then watch the sparks fly!

The reason that I am so koo-koo about this is one time I was doing something similar to this, was wearing safety goggles, touched the pole and there must of been some contamination or some such as there was a spark and a glob of something hot shot right for my eye and hit my goggles! I think that there would have been an eyeball piercing if it were not for the protection.

I always wear eye protection, even when changing oil. Just my hang up, I guess, but have made it a crusade and if one eyball is saved... mission accomplished! Always be prepared for the unexpected!!!

[steell]

Taken to it's logical conclusion, that means wearing safety goggles 24/7, even when sleeping. Interesting philosophy, especially from someone that rides a motorcycle.

Everyone has to decide for themselves the level of risk they feel is appropriate, I'm sure mine is higher than some while lower than others.

[antiq]

If you are certain the tranny is in neutral and know that you can wrench the crank at least one full revolution. Try removing the spark plugs and use the starter. If it spins do it a few seconds then let it rest for 15 minutes or so to let the starter cool. then do it several more times including the rest periods. this will get the oil pumped where it should be and may allow the rings to free enough to start the bike. Do not try to ride it if it does start until you've fixed whatever is binding in the rear wheel. Best you double check both brake systems front and rear also.

[shiftproduction]

Thank you for everyones input but I have officially given up on this project since I saw the 67 YR1 roll into my driveway. That will take up my time so Im gonna part this one out. Anyone need parts for their KZ? I also have a clean title for the rustless frame.

[wdhewson]

Don't give up too easily. If you have rebuilt the engine make sure the new rings aren't packed out with carbon against the cylinder walls. All this needs precise assembly. Also dirt and crud in the brake hydraulics can lock the brake on. Fails in the safe mode. Take off the cailper or crack a union to relieve pressure. Persistance pays off.

[shiftproduction]

ughhh Ill give it one more try THATS IT!! Put the screwdriver to the selenoid, still clicking... what now???

[antiq]

Can you kick it through? With the plugs removed? Have you sprayed penetrant into the cylinders? Did you clean the ring grooves completely?

[sfair]

Reading the posts, I am not sure that the "exact" problem has been determined...is the engine locked, is the transmission locked or are the brakes locked??? Or is it a starter/battery problem???
1. Remove a side cover to expose the alternator rotor bolt, put a wrench on it, and in neutral, try to turn. If it will not turn, try to rock back and forth a little. If it rocks a little, problem most likely in the transmission. If it is solid, motor is the problem. Did you split the cases?

Post back with your results.

[rstnick]

Check over everything mentioned.
If you do finally give up on her, I need an exhaust.
What do you have?

[wdhewson]

Good point from "sfair", I'm not really sure what we are dealing with here.

[lonestarcruiser]

Don't give up man!

I think you can take a systematic approach to figuring out what is going on, as it may be a "compounded" issue, making troubleshooting a little more involved....

The very first post suggested that the rear wheel is locked up while ( presumably) the tranny is in neutral... Still not sure if that was determined, so this is what I would recommend:

1. Remove the drive chain ( and or rear sprocket) - this will ISOLATE this issue to either the read wheel/brakes OR Engine/Tranny. Because it IS possible that the bike was never really in neutral ( unless I missed something).

Next - the issue of why it is not cranking/starting - again, after doing step 1 above, you can try a few things... ( sorry if some of these are repeats...)

2. As suggested by someone, remove all the spark plugs, put bike in Neutral, then see if rotating the crank manually will get you anywhere. At this time, don't try to start it with the starter motor, as it is also possible that your starter motor / system may have issues. It is also possible that some parts in the starting system ( pins, for ex) have come loose, and have 'jammed' things.

3. Assuming that the engine will still not budge - and knowing that now the issue is NOT the rear wheel, and NOT electrical/starter motor related, it is then likely that it is indeed the engine. The likelyhood of both happening at the same time is small... So at this point ( again assuming that Neutral was REALLY Neutral) it would be the engine...

[wdhewson]

Well put lonestar. Sounds like a Dr. House differential diagnosis. When we find the disease, likely the cure will be simple, but possibly a bit of work.

[kawpaul]

I am having a hard time understanding how you could rebuild the engine and not know if it is locked up or not. Surely when you put it back together you checked to see that it would turn over.