Tank Sealing

[kzbatbike]

Those of you who have sealed your tank with Kreem or something similar....
Have you regretted doing it and if so why?

Or are you glad you did it.
How long ago did you do it?

[buckhunterbb]

Hi,
I haven't yet,but ready to seal mine(1985zn1100ltd). Acid washed tank, brazed rust holes shut, coated inside with mineral oil,primered areas. Put gas in and was fine for about 1 week. Another rust hole appeared, brazed shut. Do not want to chance another rust hole ruining new paint job. Very hard to find a good tank. So I think I'm going with KBS sealer. Not supposed to rust again. Has anyone else used KBS sealer?

[Zammy]

The KEY is PREPERATION !!!! Success or failure depends on how well you clean , dry and apply. If you follow the direction EXACTLY ,you will be very happy with the outcome. I've done dozens over the years with no failures. I have seen tanks that someone took a shortcut here or there and the stuff was coming off or hanging loose in the tank or leaking. Good luck and be patient.

Oh yeh ...I use Kreem kits.

[NCDave]

I used POR 15. Didn't regret it a bit. As stated, preparation and patience is key.

[herk]

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[Bilby]

I've Kreemed a couple of tanks- one gave out because it was mostly done to start with (ZN1100 tank... ZN owners know what i mean) but the other one is fine.


The key is, indeed, preperation and proper application. I would look up one of the many advanced directions on the 'net and go with what they do.

This Guide in general looks like a good one. It's *very* thorough, and I pretty much agree 100% with his suggestions.

[Nate]

Look for the Finally Figured It Out thread that concluded recently. 87HandMeDown did a POR-15 treatment to his '650 tank and I provided him some pointers.

[McBiker]

I'm glad I don't need to do it now but will see the replies so as to learn from them.

[hincheec]

I had to seal the tank of my Sportster because of condensation rust from the top of the tank getting into my gas and sticking on the float needle. It took a while, but fixed the problem. I took my time and followed the directions. I read a lot of forum discussions before I did it and knew that if I did not do it right, I would be re-doing it soon.

I used a three step Kreem kit.

[Texwing]

I used some blue liner private labelled under "northern" from ebay, seems ok, but I ran a tube from an aquarium pump into the tank and let it run for about ten days-I was told thick spots that dont get to dry are what causes the problems, so I really went out of my way to let it dry.

I also got the rust out by doing the electrolysis thing where I hooked up a battery charger to an anode (a piece of thread-all) going down in the tank, filled it up with a solution of water and baking soda, and applied power-it worked like magic, and really got the tank shiny inside before coating it-someone over in SOHC honda forum had written up the process, but it was really cool how it worked.

I am still trying to figure out how to do this on the 75 honda gl1000, where the tank is under the seat and a bear to get out of the frame. I dream of an in place coating process.

[Jebysan]

Originally Posted by Texwing

I also got the rust out by doing the electrolysis thing where I hooked up a battery charger to an anode (a piece of thread-all) going down in the tank, filled it up with a solution of water and baking soda, and applied power-it worked like magic, and really got the tank shiny inside before coating it-someone over in SOHC honda forum had written up the process, but it was really cool how it worked.

I would love a link to the electrolysis instructions if you'd be so kind !!

[Sts70004]

Kreem is good stuff but you hear a lot of Horror Stories regarding Kreem. From what I can tell it all boils down to three things:

1) Once the first step has been done, the tank dries out and "Flash Rusts"

2) Again, Once the second tank prep has been used the tank dries out and "Flash Rusts"

3) This is probably the most common: Don't allow enough time for curing. They recommend 24 hours, but every tank I've done I've let sit for about 3-5 days before filling it.

Before I used the stuff on my tank the first time, I did a few test on a piece of sheet metal, and you can't let the steel dry once you start, or a thin layer of rust will develop, and that will cause problems later on.

[StarGate]

Originally Posted by Jebysan

I would love a link to the electrolysis instructions if you'd be so kind !!

There are several out there you can find with google. Here is one example.
Ken's Eletrolysis Setup

[Bilby]

Originally Posted by Sts70004

Kreem is good stuff but you hear a lot of Horror Stories regarding Kreem. From what I can tell it all boils down to three things:

1) Once the first step has been done, the tank dries out and "Flash Rusts"

2) Again, Once the second tank prep has been used the tank dries out and "Flash Rusts"

3) This is probably the most common: Don't allow enough time for curing. They recommend 24 hours, but every tank I've done I've let sit for about 3-5 days before filling it.

Before I used the stuff on my tank the first time, I did a few test on a piece of sheet metal, and you can't let the steel dry once you start, or a thin layer of rust will develop, and that will cause problems later on.

If you look a few posts up you'll see the link I gave for 'advanced' step-by-step Kreem-ing. That writeup is pretty darn close to what the crusty old motorcycle mechanic I worked with used, and I've used it with some success (worked fine on 3 customer's tanks, but on mine? noooooo... but mine was a special case).

Yeah, I'd say the #1 and #2 problems people have with the Kreem is flash rust and not allowing enough time to cure. Both can result in the plastic "sack" that the Kreem becomes peeling away from the wall and / or clogging up the petcock.

[Jeff.saunders]

As others stated, preparation is key.

One major point to add, if the rust is severe, the structure of the tank can be compromised.

I had an all-original KZ900 tank that looked good on the outside - severe rust on the inside. Instead of Kreem or POR 15, I used a 2-part marine epoxy from West Marine to coat the inside of the tank. This becomes an armored lining that helps brace the tank if the rust is severe.

I've also had a tank that was so rusty, the top of the tank buckled when pushed forward into the tank mount dampers...

[Nessism]

The various sealer materials on the market claim to work over the top of rust but personally I’m not comfortable with that. When I did my tank, I left the phosphoric acid etching solution in the tank until all the rust was gone (three days), not just a short time like the kit called for. The key is to rotate the tank every few hours to keep the rusty area wet and give the solution a chance to work. After the rust was gone the metal had a chalky residue on the surface from the phosphoric acid. To remove this I used a bag of aquarium rocks and some alcohol. Tried some screws and nuts and bolts first, but the aquarium rocks worked much better in scouring the surface of the metal. Another option to remove the rust is Evapo Rust. Harbor Freight sells this stuff for $20 a gallon. It eats rust and doesn’t hurt the metal. The used solution can be reused or just dumped down the drain since it’s not harmful to the environment. Good stuff.

[87handmedown]

Originally Posted by Nate

Look for the Finally Figured It Out thread that concluded recently. 87HandMeDown did a POR-15 treatment to his '650 tank and I provided him some pointers.

Yep, I sealed mine about a month ago and have absolutely no regrets about doing it. In fact, I wish I had done it a LONG time ago.

[Bilby]

Originally Posted by Nessism

The various sealer materials on the market claim to work over the top of rust but personally I’m not comfortable with that. When I did my tank, I left the phosphoric acid etching solution in the tank until all the rust was gone (three days), not just a short time like the kit called for. The key is to rotate the tank every few hours to keep the rusty area wet and give the solution a chance to work. After the rust was gone the metal had a chalky residue on the surface from the phosphoric acid. To remove this I used a bag of aquarium rocks and some alcohol. Tried some screws and nuts and bolts first, but the aquarium rocks worked much better in scouring the surface of the metal. Another option to remove the rust is Evapo Rust. Harbor Freight sells this stuff for $20 a gallon. It eats rust and doesn’t hurt the metal. The used solution can be reused or just dumped down the drain since it’s not harmful to the environment. Good stuff.

IIRC there's a company on the west coast that has a biodegradible, non-toxic rust eliminator that is supposed to be just awesome. They used it on bits of the set of the movie Titanic when they were filming off the west coast of Mexico. Apparently the local authorities were going to arrest the film crew because they had just sprayed this stuff on the (rusting) metalwork and let it go overboard and it was discoloring the water- but the crew brought in a marine biologist that confirmed that the water in the discolored areas was actually *cleaner* then the rest of the ocean...

ah, here's the link --> Rusteco


Also, yeah, you have to get ALL of the rust out of the tank before coating, with basically anything. The trick is to use water as hot as you can stand, and keep it moving- when I coated tanks I'd heat the water on the shop stove until it was just below scalding, and then pour it in and agitate it by shaking the tank, letting it sit, shaking, flip the tank over, let it sit, repeat ad nauseam. Works a treat, but MAN do your arms get tired- especially with 4-5 gallon tanks!

[Jebysan]

Originally Posted by StarGate

There are several out there you can find with google. Here is one example.
Ken's Eletrolysis Setup

Thanks SG that helped tremendously !! nothing better then making your own gadgets and having everyone look at you like your off your rocker.

[Greenhawk]

Have used KREEM with great sucess. Just follow directions and as everyone else has pointed out prepararation is the KEY.