Diagnosing a low side

[dude500]

To add to the list of "I am an idiot" topics

Well, after several years of being crash free, I low-sided this past weekend on a rainy ride. Two traffic lights away from my home! And on the way back from a dealer for maintenance and state inspection (one lesson learned – I need to do my own service!). How embarrassing. I was impressed on how relatively little damage there was to the VN900C – scuffed tip of the muffler, slightly filed-off front brake lever, scratched tank decal, and bent bracket that holds the right footpeg and brake. I was also impressed with the immediate concern and kindness from fellow NY cagers… I did not expect all the stopped cars and generous offers to help. Somehow I doubt I would have received this kind of attention if I had an accident in a cage! Luckily I was in full rain gear and was on my way about 10 minutes after the crash, only thing hurting was my ego haha.

Anyways I have been trying to replay the little I remember prior to the slide, but to be honest I have not come up with any concrete conclusions on what I did that ultimately led to the slide. This seemed like it should have been such a routine day, so obviously something is lacking in my knowledge of how to ride. So I am putting this out there for you guys to critique and for me to learn! This is what I remember:

-It had been raining heavy earlier but had turned into an on/off drizzle
-I was lightly braking using only my front brake (mistake?)
-I was in the center of the lane (I realize this was a mistake)
-The road was relatively flat
-I had already been braking for maybe thirty feet when the front tire gave suddenly. I was probably going 20mph when the tire gave
-I’m pretty sure I was going straight and hadn’t begun turning yet, because I was about thirty feet away from the turn when I slid (coincidently, I came to a rest right at the turn!)
-I low-sided to the right side, even though it was a left turn

Any “constructive” thoughts would be appreciated!

[skewterdewd]

Originally Posted by dude500

To add to the list of "I am an idiot" topics

This is what I remember:

-I low-sided to the right side, even though it was a left turn

Any “constructive” thoughts would be appreciated!

I could see all the things you listed contributing to the initial slide, especially on a custom, with its skinny front tire. (I don't give a rip about the physics of the patch area- that thing will slide. Mine did it fairly often.)

It's the last line that's puzzlin' evidence. Is there a chance you jabbed the rear brake reflexively? It seems like if it had been the front brake causing the fall-in, it would have gone down to the inside.

Where there any white traffic markers in your path?

Using your rear brake in concert with the front might have freed up some traction points for the front wheel, but riding a wet grease strip would have negated the effect of doing so. Stay in the wheel tracks when possible during the wet.

Glad you were not hurt. A friend of mine just had a similar slide, and his ankle is buggered.

[MFolks]

Spilled Diesel fuel,Brake fluid, and Anti-freeze all are slippery making it very difficult to see and react to. What you encountered may have been the combination of all three.

[NCDave]

middle of lanes when it's rained can be VERY slick. that combined with the front brake would be my guess as the culpret.

Don't feel too bad. it happened to me too. I was on my way home from the dealer on the Buell, 1/2 mile from home, rounded a turn and down I went.

[V2K_CCTX]

did it a month after getting my 14, road work and sand, had to brake suddenly for moron in cager, stopped, tired slipped fell over, plop! Stood up. issued appropriate expletive, rode on

[NCDave]

Originally Posted by V2K_CCTX

did it a month after getting my 14, road work and sand, had to brake suddenly for moron in cager, stopped, tired slipped fell over, plop! Stood up. issued appropriate expletive, rode on

That's the important part!!!

[RichLockyer]

Low side went to the right because the wheel had marginal traction and the counter steering movement pushed when tire to the right.
Rather than lean the bike to the left and initiate the turn, the tire washed out and dropped the bike on the right side.

The primary mistake was riding in the center of the lane, especially approaching the intersection. There isn't much of an "oil slick" in the center of the lanes on a part of the road where traffic is moving, but it gets really nasty within the last 30-50ft approaching a crosswalk.

Front brake only was not a bad thing, until you got close enough to the turn to begin the turning motions. At that point, I would have completely released the front brake and moved to the rear very lightly.

[SLLR]

Originally Posted by dude500

And on the way back from a dealer for maintenance

Could something that happened at the dealer have contributed? (tire picked up something, front brake adjustment, suspension adjustment, etc)

[Charlie Gary]

Being in the center combined with front brake only in the rain put you in a bad spot. When it's wet I use more rear brake and less front. I get close to the same amount as normal dry riding, but it's proportioned differently. When you have time sit back, relax, close your eyes and see if you can relive the ride, especially trying to remember what you felt in the grips before and after you had traction. Knowing what you're feeling before things go too far might save you some embarrassment (or worse) next time.

[dude500]

Originally Posted by RichLockyer

Low side went to the right because the wheel had marginal traction and the counter steering movement pushed when tire to the right.
Rather than lean the bike to the left and initiate the turn, the tire washed out and dropped the bike on the right side.

This makes sense. I forgot to mention that the only damage to my outer rain gear is torn fabric in the right knee area. I think that implies that the bike just fell from under me and I had vertically fallen down to the right side, rather than tipped with the bike to the right side (since I would expect more damage to my shoulder and back). But one thing I'm wondering is why it would low side to the right at 30 feet away? It's a pretty sharp left hand turn and I guess I wasn't aware that I initiated the counter-steer that far away...?

Originally Posted by Charlie Gary

Being in the center combined with front brake only in the rain put you in a bad spot. When it's wet I use more rear brake and less front.

Yeah I was thinking that I would rather skid the rear to a stop than lock up the front wheel. So in this situation would you go rear-brake only? And if the rear locks up, would you then simultaneously apply front brake and keep the rear skidding?

Another thing I was wondering is sometimes I've seen riders stick out and drag their feet while coming to a stop. Do you think that would have helped in this situation?

Edit: more things I remember:
-bike was facing parallel to the direction of travel as it was skidding. That might just be because of the way the bike was dragging on the ground though. I don't remember how the bike was oriented when it was going down.
-I had passed several white strips. I went down approximately 15 feet away from one. But I'm pretty sure that I didn't lose traction on one because I remember the point where I lost traction was on asphalt.
-I thought the problem might have just been liquids dumped on the road but walking back there after the crash and inspecting the ground, I didn't see anything. But I guess if anyone saw liquids then there'd be less low sides

[dude500]

Originally Posted by SLLR

Could something that happened at the dealer have contributed? (tire picked up something, front brake adjustment, suspension adjustment, etc)

Everything was fine up until the skid haha. The dealer is about 25 miles away so I think any crud they had gotten on the wheel would have been felt or rubbed off by then. But a good thought.

[Charlie Gary]

Originally Posted by dude500

This makes sense. I forgot to mention that the only damage to my outer rain gear is torn fabric in the right knee area. I think that implies that the bike just fell from under me and I had vertically fallen down to the right side, rather than tipped with the bike to the right side (since I would expect more damage to my shoulder and back). But one thing I'm wondering is why it would low side to the right at 30 feet away? It's a pretty sharp left hand turn and I guess I wasn't aware that I initiated the counter-steer that far away...?



Yeah I was thinking that I would rather skid the rear to a stop than lock up the front wheel. So in this situation would you go rear-brake only? And if the rear locks up, would you then simultaneously apply front brake and keep the rear skidding?

No, I would still use the front brake. MSF teaches to keep the rear locked once it's skidding, but my subconscious side always negates that training.

[/quote]Another thing I was wondering is sometimes I've seen riders stick out and drag their feet while coming to a stop. Do you think that would have helped in this situation?[/quote]
This would have put you in the same predicament of front brake only. Feet on the ground mean no rear brake, but when the brown stuff hits the fan feet on the ground can help keep things upright.

[/quote]Edit: more things I remember:
-bike was facing parallel to the direction of travel as it was skidding. That might just be because of the way the bike was dragging on the ground though. I don't remember how the bike was oriented when it was going down.
-I had passed several white strips. I went down approximately 15 feet away from one. But I'm pretty sure that I didn't lose traction on one because I remember the point where I lost traction was on asphalt.
-I thought the problem might have just been liquids dumped on the road but walking back there after the crash and inspecting the ground, I didn't see anything. But I guess if anyone saw liquids then there'd be less low sides [/quote]