Training courses and Statistics

[jaydub77]

This one was an eye opener for me...I had learned about it at a motorcycle training course I had taken a little while ago (It was so fun!), eh...anyways, the instructor told me he got this info from stats canada:

In 2005 in BC, there were 43 motorcycle deaths that year. That was the bad news. The better news is that there were over 80,000 registered motorcycles that year in BC. Now here is the shocking and eye opening good news (well for those who believe in motorcycle training courses); out of the 43 deaths on a motorcycle that year 41 of them had not done something. What do you think that something was????

41 of 43 of those killed on motorcycles HAD NOT TAKEN ANY PROFESSIONAL MOTORCYCLE TRAINING COURSES!!!! Only 2 people who died had taken a course...if you listen to the statistics alone, it raises striking inferences about taking a course and NOT being just another statistic! I found it eye opening..hope people can appreciate this kind of knowledge

[Utah Motorcyclist]

I plan on taking the advanced classes next spring. It should be fun to refresh everything again.

[jaydub77]

yeah I'm going back next year for an advanced course as well...they even hold it at the local track so I know it would be really fun!

[RichLockyer]

Stats that I have heard in the US was something like 50% involved alcohol, and of the remaining 50%, 50% of THEM had not taken the MSF course.

I think MSF might be a little more common here because (at least in some states) they make the DMV test extremely difficult to pass.
Tap one cone or get a tire outside the line and it's an immediate fail.

In the MSF class, unless you drop the bike during the test, out of the 5 or 6 skills tested, no SINGLE skill is worth enough points to fail you.
On the figure-8, you can go outside the box AND put your foot down, and as long as you ace the rest of the test, you're good to go.

[jbsmd]

Around here. they don't ride like they've taken a course. If they have, then they're just jerks with a licence.

[CTRider]

Honestly, I'm not sure it's taking the course so much as having the attitude of someone who would want to take a safety course. While I did learn a lot, there's something to be said for wanting to take the course and learn from it.

Those that do take the course are often those who want to be safe on the road. Sure, you get some people who take just as an easy way to get their license, but I think most participants genuinely take it to learn safe riding skills.

Learning those safe techniques simply allows them to respond correctly to bad situations that simply riding in a safe manner can't prevent.

[jaydub77]

Originally Posted by RichLockyer

Stats that I have heard in the US was something like 50% involved alcohol, and of the remaining 50%, 50% of THEM had not taken the MSF course.

I think MSF might be a little more common here because (at least in some states) they make the DMV test extremely difficult to pass.
Tap one cone or get a tire outside the line and it's an immediate fail.

In the MSF class, unless you drop the bike during the test, out of the 5 or 6 skills tested, no SINGLE skill is worth enough points to fail you.
On the figure-8, you can go outside the box AND put your foot down, and as long as you ace the rest of the test, you're good to go.

It sounds like the DMV test sounds like a joke compared to what you have to do to get your liscence here in BC (or Canada for that matter) and I certainly don't mean this to offend anyone here on the forum either. Out here in canada the whole cones in the parking lot test is only the beginning...when (and if) you pass that, they make you take a road test by taking you on the streets and following the rules of the road, like a car, but on a motorcycle, and if you miss a school zone sign, it's an automatic fail. If you cross a solid white or yellow line, it's an automatic fail.

I would like to hear what it is like in the states compared to Canada more, and I would also like to hear from people out east in Canada to hear what it's like to get your liscence out there

[RichLockyer]

Some states do have road tests... and some have road tests with NO parking lot work (which I think is a joke).
Here in CA, you have to hold a class-C before (or at the same time as) your M1, so they assume that you know the laws of the road regarding signeage, lane changes, speed limits, signalling, etc.
In addition, when you take the written test to get your permit (which is required even WITH the MSF class cert), you also have to take half of the standard class-C written test, so if you have forgotten some of the traffic laws, you may still fail. A friend went into the DMV to take his test without studying, and when he was handed the class-C written, he asked what would happen if he failed that portion... the clerk joked "Do you have a ride home?".. but no, they do not pull your class-C.
The MC written test is all specific to MCs and none of the questions on the MC test are duplicated on the class-C test.

As for the riding test... it's pretty tough on a larger bike. They have a "lollipop" set up with lines painted 18" apart. You have to keep the front wheel between the lines... they don't care if the rear wheel hits a line as long as the front remains between them.
There are two sections to the test.
You ride up the right side of the "stick", then turn into the circle, complete TWO consecutive circles to the left, then exit the circle down the left side of the stick.
Next, cones are placed in the center of the stick. You do a cone weave through the cones, and when you pass the last cone, you are set up to reenter the circle. Two more consecutive circles to the right, then exit the circle... I don't remember if you have to repeat the cone weave after exiting or if you just have to ride down the right side of the "stick".

This demonstrates the ability to make basic u-turns and other low-speed parking lot and avoidance maneuvers.

The MSF course test includes emergency braking, the figure-8 box, an emergency swerve maneuver around an obstruction, then acceleration through a 90 degree turn and into 2nd gear, then slowing to enter a 130 degree sweeper. I don't remember if that is the complete test or not, but I think it is.

Classes are scored differently (even in CA with various schools), but the way my class was scored, and the way the percentages work out, each individual skill is worth no more than 75% of the maximum points allowed before failing. In my school, a failing score was more than -8 points.
No individual skill is worth more than 6 points... such as on the figure-8, putting a foot down is worth 3, and going outside the box is also worth 3.
If you go outside the box on both halves of the 8, it's -6. If you go outside the box AND put your foot down, it's -6. If you go outside on BOTH halves and put your foot down, it's still -6, so literally riding straight through the box without attempting the figure-8 is still only worth -6... but that only leaves you 2 points on the remaining skills.

Forgetting to downshift during the emergency braking is either -4 or -6.
The 130 degree sweeper is timed, and you have 3 seconds to go from the entry to the exit cones. I was something like 0.2 seconds slow and lost 1 point, which was my final score.

They do cover OTHER skills in the class itself, such as riding over the 2x4, cone weave, offset cone weave, acceleration through a turn while upshifting into 3rd, but those skills are not on the final exam (maybe the cone weave, I don't remember).


That's the on-road or range portion of the class.
The classroom session itself ranges from 4 to 8 hours, depending on the school and the instructor. It IS very fast-paced, and I honestly recommend buying MSF's "Guide to Motorcycling Excellence"... By studying that book for a week before class, you'll ace the written and have a good grasp on the concepts when you hit the range and the street.
Without it, I honestly doubt that I would have aced the written (still would have passed). Class covers impairments to riding such as alcohol, fatigue, emotional state... it covers "rider radar" or situational awareness... as well as a rundown on your "preflight" of the machine (though when I'm leaving at 5am I do NOT test my 140db airhorn until I'm on the highway).

[Seadog1967]

Gee when I got my motorcycle license the big test was........
Ummm how long have you ridden a motorcycle. Over 1 yr. Ok here ya go.
Course that was back in 1963 or 1964. Short while later there were written and road tests. Oh ya they were out to kill you back then too. Just less of them though. LOL

[jaydub77]

yeah...for me I thought the parking lot stuff was really mundane once you got the hang of it...I really hope that it isn't all you need in some places to get a liscence...though I do admit at the place I went to, they made the parking lot harder than the road sometimes, I just wish more people would realize that taking a course is a good thing and that it really raises confidence in your true riding ability...alot of people think they know "how to ride" but when our class went on road rides, we could point out the people who knew how to ride properly from the people who didn't, it was funny, but also kind of sad

I had to take the written test, then ride around the outside of a parking lot that was roughly 75 ft. X 100 ft., making two stops and using turn signals. That was it.

Oh, and they did a safety inspection of the bike before the "road" test.

[fitbmxseries1]

Id love to take some advance racing classes at the local track, Im sure it would ad to my street abilities too.

[jaydub77]

Originally Posted by fitbmxseries1

Id love to take some advance racing classes at the local track, Im sure it would ad to my street abilities too.

I know what you mean, if you can still make a corner with them shooting pilons at your head and blocking off your vision it definately helps sharpen your focus and attention, both beginner and advanced training really benefit you safety-wise for street. If you find out what your maching is capable of at the track where it is safe, then when there comes a time you need to rely on your machine to get you out of a tight spot on the street you know what it can do and react accordingly

[philipd]

I got my license in August and the test was two figure 8's in the parking lot. That's it. Take all the room you need just don't let your feet touch the ground. I was expecting much more.

[Ronin47]

I was fortunate that when I moved from Ca to Az, they offered to put in my motorcycle endorsement on my new license. Didn't have to take any tests for it. Out of my own paranoia, I still took a local MSF course anyway when I got my new bike.

[jaydub77]

Originally Posted by philipd

I got my license in August and the test was two figure 8's in the parking lot. That's it. Take all the room you need just don't let your feet touch the ground. I was expecting much more.

Wow...that's rediculous...I bet you were expecting more...I wonder who's idea it was that decided that doing figure 8's in a parking lot meant you were good enough for the streets. Well anyways congrats on your licence, stay safe out there!

[freezeradio]

I took my test in Corona California In 1976,And again in Naperville Illinois In 2001,Passed each time easy. But I think I will Take the safety course a.s.a.p . Again this site has me thinking.Wow imagine that. thanx again

[SteelMonkey]

I got my MC license about 23years ago in Ontario. 4 day course that included some classroom\knowledge tests, and just parking lot stuff....figure 8's, high speed cornering, emergency stops, emergency turns, etc. Didn't have to take the course by law....just by law of mom and dad. At the time I could have gotten my license just by going out on the road with someone from the dmv following me around. I am thinking I may take it again next year, since I am just getting reacquainted with the thrill of riding, and will probably take it with my son, as he has now been introduced to the way the "other half" lives, and would like to get his own bike once he is old enough.
I do know that some of what I learned all those years ago has stuck with me, as I have had to put some of it into practice already, so I think it would be a good idea to go and relearn all the skills they taught.

[freezeradio]

I would like to look for a course near me. When iI look I only come up with traing not safety lil help? Thanx

[jaydub77]

Originally Posted by freezeradio

I would like to look for a course near me. When iI look I only come up with traing not safety lil help? Thanx

maybe look up the words 'riding school' in your search? plus training kinda helps and ties in with the whole safety thing