'78 Z1R charging system question - Kawasaki Motorcycle Forums
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-13-2019, 08:28 PM Thread Starter
Member
BTK Beginner
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 66
Garage
'78 Z1R charging system question

Hiho-


I picked up a new stator and modern regulator/rectifier. The stator is in place and working. The new regulator/rectifier replaces

both original separate pieces. The original harness uses the old style electric panel with the 4 connectors under the left side cover.
The wiring diagram I have is a little fuzzy in this area and I don't want to get it wrong and fry something besides dinner. Looks like
the blue connector has wiring for the oil pressure light, the neutral indicator light, and the 3 stator wires. The green and white

connectors appear to be for the old regulator and rectifier, although it's hard to see if anything else is connected to those 2 where
the wires disappear into the harness. The brown connector is a mystery. Anyone know what it goes to? The new regulator/rectifier
has simple instructions and will be easy to install once I find a place to mount it. Anyone else done this and run into any speed bumps?


thanks in advance,
bill
bille6 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-14-2019, 09:50 AM
Senior Member
BTK Expert
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,367
A reg/rec can have two ways of figuring out how much voltage to output. The older style use a sense wire, usually from the brown circuit and this wire will show voltage on that circuit and the reg/rec will adjust. That is the way the original separate regulator and rectifier worked. Newer style reg/rec units derive voltage sense from the WHITE wire (might be white with red stripe) going to the battery and fuse box after a split. Older reg/rec units had a BLACK wire which is a ground. The three yellow wires are coming from your stator and supply the A/C voltage.

Your panel arrangement will have little to do with the connections of your new reg/rec directly as the circuits come off the fuse block that is powered by the white wire from the reg/rec. I highly recommend heading to the auto parts store and buying a small modern fuse box using modern plug in style fuses. You can un-solder the orignal wire leads going to the junction thing where the plugs are and solder them into the new fuse box. Much better chance of good connections at this point.

wiredgeorge
Texas Hill Country
wiredgeorge is offline  
post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-14-2019, 11:00 AM Thread Starter
Member
BTK Beginner
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 66
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by wiredgeorge View Post
A reg/rec can have two ways of figuring out how much voltage to output. The older style use a sense wire, usually from the brown circuit and this wire will show voltage on that circuit and the reg/rec will adjust. That is the way the original separate regulator and rectifier worked. Newer style reg/rec units derive voltage sense from the WHITE wire (might be white with red stripe) going to the battery and fuse box after a split. Older reg/rec units had a BLACK wire which is a ground. The three yellow wires are coming from your stator and supply the A/C voltage.

Your panel arrangement will have little to do with the connections of your new reg/rec directly as the circuits come off the fuse block that is powered by the white wire from the reg/rec. I highly recommend heading to the auto parts store and buying a small modern fuse box using modern plug in style fuses. You can un-solder the orignal wire leads going to the junction thing where the plugs are and solder them into the new fuse box. Much better chance of good connections at this point.



Hi WG-


Looks like my questions wasn't clear enough but thanks for your input. I've already swapped in a modern ATM fuse panel and

relay setups for the ignition and headlight. I've just about got the new regulator mounted at this point.



Hope the rest of your weekend is good!


b
bille6 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-15-2019, 08:39 AM
Senior Member
BTK Expert
 
martin-csr's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 4,266
The brown connector is a mystery. Anyone know what it goes to?

There should be a component with a matching brown connector that plugs into it. Using the part numbers at Partzilla, I searched EB for the various electro components, but didn't see anything with a brown connector. The size of the connector & color of the wires might help in identifying what's what.


...

1981 KZ650-CSR. Competition, Sports & Road.
martin-csr is offline  
post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-15-2019, 09:03 AM Thread Starter
Member
BTK Beginner
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 66
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by martin-csr View Post
The brown connector is a mystery. Anyone know what it goes to?

There should be a component with a matching brown connector that plugs into it. Using the part numbers at Partzilla, I searched EB for the various electro components, but didn't see anything with a brown connector. The size of the connector & color of the wires might help in identifying what's what.


...



Thanks for replying. Looks like the brown connector is used for a hodge-podge of stuff and gathers output from the stator (blue connector), regulator (green connector) and rectifier (white connector) to finally route it back into the harness. The blue connector
also has input wires from the OP and neutral switches. I'm just about done except for neatening things up but haven't yet
made final connections or hit the button. Made a semi crude mounting plate for the new regulator, mounting it more or less
in place of the old rectifier. Will post back after trying it.



thanks again & hope the week goes well!
bille6 is offline  
post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-16-2019, 05:41 PM Thread Starter
Member
BTK Beginner
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 66
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by bille6 View Post
Thanks for replying. Looks like the brown connector is used for a hodge-podge of stuff and gathers output from the stator (blue connector), regulator (green connector) and rectifier (white connector) to finally route it back into the harness. The blue connector
also has input wires from the OP and neutral switches. I'm just about done except for neatening things up but haven't yet
made final connections or hit the button. Made a semi crude mounting plate for the new regulator, mounting it more or less
in place of the old rectifier. Will post back after trying it.



thanks again & hope the week goes well!



Haven't taken it for a ride yet but managed to get rid of those 4 connectors and put in (1) 3p weather pack for the new reg/rec connection and (1) 2p for the OP and Neutral indicators. Also removed the reserve lighting unit. I jumped the following connections in the harness connector: To get the headlight working, Blue-to-Blue/Yellow; tail light Red to Red-White;

Brake Light- On the harness 3P connector from the RLU, combined the Green/White and Blue and jumped this to

what appears to be blue-black . So the red tach indicator still lights when the brake is used. The rest of the pins are
empty. Just about any or ALL of the above stuff might be wrong or incomplete but so far they worked for me when testing.
bille6 is offline  
post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-18-2019, 08:53 AM
Senior Member
BTK Expert
 
martin-csr's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 4,266
By bille6: .... So the red tach indicator still lights when the brake is used.

Assuming you mean the Stop Lamp. I believe that's normal >> my 1981 KZ650-CSR has that feature. The Stop Lamp lets you know the brake light is working. On my bike if the Stop Lamp flashes without applying the brakes, that means there's a problem with the brake light circuit, which could be as simple as a burned out brake light bulb.



...

1981 KZ650-CSR. Competition, Sports & Road.
martin-csr is offline  
post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-18-2019, 10:31 AM Thread Starter
Member
BTK Beginner
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 66
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by martin-csr View Post
By bille6: .... So the red tach indicator still lights when the brake is used.

Assuming you mean the Stop Lamp. I believe that's normal >> my 1981 KZ650-CSR has that feature. The Stop Lamp lets you know the brake light is working. On my bike if the Stop Lamp flashes without applying the brakes, that means there's a problem with the brake light circuit, which could be as simple as a burned out brake light bulb.



...



Agree that is normal if the 'Reserve Lighting' box is connected and working correctly, although not sure about a 650 CSR
( speak of the devil, i had a '79 version of that ) but if you disconnect the box and want to retain the brake light "ON" indicator,
you'll need to include the green/white wire. If not, the STOP LAMP will work fine but the "ON" function of the indicator won't.
bille6 is offline  
post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-25-2019, 06:19 PM Thread Starter
Member
BTK Beginner
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 66
Garage
Just an update on this. I decided to go ahead and complete what was headed toward a mini-electrical overhaul anyhow so here is how it stands now:
Has new :


(*) Modern regulator/rectifier from Rick's. It's mounted where the old rectifier was.

(*) Has a new EMGO stator which supposedly puts out more voltage than the original. And it WAS when I measured the voltage after
installing it last week.
(*) As part of the new reg/rec install, the 4 Plug "electrical panel" under the left side cover really is no longer needed so it was easy to remove.
(*) To get rid of old wiring that was chafing on the edges of the entrance hole where it went from the right handlebar control THRU the bar
into the headlamp area, a new switch with new wiring running on the outside of the bar was installed.
(*) The original 3-[glass]fuse box was replaced with a modern ATM panel
(*) Installed a relay setup to power the coils using the original wires as the relay switch.

(*) Installed a dual relay setup for the headlamp using the original bulb plug wires to switch the relays.

(*) Got rid of the "Aux Lighting" unit.
(*) New lithium battery. This was more or less a last desperate 'swing in the dark' . Sometimes batteries do weird things- but, unsurprisingly,

the battery was not the problem.



So I've taken it on 3 short rides since buttoning it back up yesterday.. The thing doesn't miss a beat. The headlamp is bright again but that's where the good news ends. At the end of a 10 or 15 minute ride, the battery shows a 10th or 2/10ths volts lower than before the ride began. A couple more short rides and it will need a recharge. Same as the end of last season before all this work was started. The voltage regulator gets pretty hot but not sure it isn't supposed to and there seem to be no relays, fuses, or wiring that are unreasonably warm. The one monster "clue" I've been seeing IS that when you test voltage at the battery, it seems normal and charging about 13.2 volts at idle with the headlight OFF.. As soon the headlight is switched on, voltage reading at the battery drops to 12.9 and slowly keeps falling by 10ths. When the light is shut off, the voltage
climbs. Pulling the bulb but leaving the switch ON has the same effect as shutting the switch off, eliminating the taillight and running lights as

suspects. Switching beams doesn't produce any changes so the issue must be somewhere in the high/low beam power feed circuit?

You'd think the fuse or headlamp wiring to/from the box would be warm but it is not. I am stumped.
bille6 is offline  
post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-26-2019, 07:24 PM Thread Starter
Member
BTK Beginner
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 66
Garage
Update #2- I took the bike for another ride today and tossed an extra battery, a few wrenches, a voltmeter and little charger into my backpack. Sure enough-after 15 miles, it started coughing then died a mile or two later. I put in the spare battery and rode home with the headlight turned off. The bike hasa new stator which I checked after installing but now it isn't working and there is more or less no resistance between 2 of the legs. Wondering what would/could do it in so quickly. This was the 4th time I took the bike out since replacing the stator and a bunch or other stuff.
It started and ran fine for a short time but am now suspecting the stator has not been working since the first ride. Don't wanna toss another in there just to have it burn out right away.
bille6 is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Kawasaki Motorcycle Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome