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Road Snot Needs A Kleenex
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Discussion Starter #1
Hey all. I just had the following done at a local shop:

■ Vance & Hines Supersport Full Exhuast
■ Dynojet Stage 1&3 Jet KIt
■ Denso Irdium Spark PLugs
■K&N High Flow Replacement Filter (KA-5087)

I only drove the bike 10 miles from the shop when I noticed that the lower cowl was melting and warping from the heat of the exhaust. Also, the black coating on the headers started to flake. Now I know V&H have good products so I'm thinking that it's something else.

The jet kit came with 122,126,136, and 140 main jets. The shop installed the 126 jets, which the instructions say to use for a stage 1 rejet. Oh, ya and they boosted my idle from 1,000RPM to 1,900 RPM.

Running wise, I can't really tell, because I didn't get a chance to really drive to far.

Sounds like I might have a prob. Any suggestions? I was told by a friend that it sounds like they set me up too lean and I'm running hot.

But anyways, I'm taking it back to the shop tomorrow to see what I can do about the lower cowl.
 

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Road Snot Needs A Kleenex
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364 Posts
Discussion Starter #2
Took the bike back to the shop today to have them go back through their work. I drove it only 2-3 miles, and the exhaust heated up the plastic to the point that I burned my finger on it when I touched it. Also, one head pipe has the black heat paint flakeing off already, so I imagine one bank is running real lean compared to the other. I asked the guy if they sync the carbs after the rejet. His response was only if the customer asks, then they'll charge for it. Com'on, you rejet, mess with the A/F mixture and NOT sync the carbs?

So now, my lower cowl is shot, it looks like a huge dent the the way the exhaust melted the plastic, the heat treated paint on the headers is flakeing, what's next?

The worst part is I could have caught the bike's lower cowl on fire if I actually went for a normal 100-200 miles ride last night like I wanted to. The plastic that was melting was liquid-like and running down the inside of the cowl.

I showed the mechanic the posts from this site, specially the jetting an ex500 for vance & hines pipes, he said that the 135 jets that the guy used in that post may not work for our elevation (about 450 above sea level).

Overall, his solution is, call Vance & Hines and Dynojet to see what their solution is.[/url]
 

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MANNERS

I would calmly go in and see the manager. In a manner of fact, and aclear and calm voice tell him what you brought in and what you expected and go over the invoice with him. you expected them to do the checking and full sync and not guessing of what they were doing and now it has resulted in a ruined lower fairing as well as paint flaking off because the exhaust is not right. setting the idle up to hide a problem is not what you expected an dthough tthat it was only for a break in period, and that you want the carb jetting done properly and the lower fairing replaced at their cost. should you have been told that there would have been an extra charge for the sycn and adjustments than you would gladly of paid. but the work/situation that you currently have in not only unacceptable/inappropriate/but causing damage to your motorcycle. Save your receipts...get EVERYTHING IN WRITING...and find Sport Rider, April 2004, Page 88 Consumers Rule. Sometimes the dealers can be wrong and you just have to make them eat crow...it's tough to do it, but they have to if their reputation is on the line...
When you get a chance lok up www.por15.com for your paint, and if you have room for a thin heatshield you may want to stick one inside, although there shouldn't be a reason to have to do that .
 

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Road Snot Needs A Kleenex
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Discussion Starter #5
Well, the shop called me yesterday. Vance & Hines are replacing the headers, so that solves the thermal paint flakeing problem. V&H also told them to rejet the bike with the current setup using the 140 jets.

I'll get the bike back today and see how it runs. Also, the shop still hasn't said anything about replacing my lower fairing that got damaged from the heat of the exhaust from when they had it massively lean (126 main jets).

Hopefully they'll replace it knowing that it was their fault. If not, I'm a member of a local car club, and associate of another. Along with firends who use ATV & dirt bikes. If they don't right the wrong, about 50-100 people will know NEVER to goto that shop. Word of mouth can go a long way.
 

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SEEING

Seeing the manager has to be involved I'd just ask him when you can expect to receive the new lower cowling to arrive...since the problem was impropper setup by the mechanic and not properly adjusted beforre it left the shop...be nice but be up front and not harsh on him...it is after all costing him time and money to do the repairs...so should the lower cowl be replaced...
 

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Mannager

You just catch more flys with honey than vinegar... don't piss him off or threaten him...in fact I'd tell him that you are sorta' happy that het problem occured because now the bike runs really great and you can tell ALL of your friends whre to go to get their work done....sometimes looking at the situation from somebody elses shoes (like the Managers) is a good thing! Think about it...be smart!
 

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Road Snot Needs A Kleenex
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Discussion Starter #8
ZX-2R, I got the bike back yesterday.....Still messed up. I've talked to the owner numours times about the cowl. Hinting and being nice, giving him the chance to offer to replace it. Even dropped the cowl in his shop and showed him the damage from the exhuast.

No go, he keeps stating that it's the V&H system that melted it. His excuse is " The stock exhuast is a double chambered pipe and the V&H is a single, so it will run hotter. I called the Dealer, and a new cowl is $282 which I may have to drop from my own pocket. But I'll keep persuing the shop to replace it.

Now, with the 140 jets, the bike(under heavy acceleration) cuts out at 7,000RPM and again at 9,000. If I let go of the throttle. The bike comes back to power. If I do a slow accel. It goes through the RPM range fine.
 

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key

The possable key to the situation is your statements written on paper for the dealership, saving all of your receipts and now making a nothre statement of facts,,,and reading Sport Rider April 2004 Page 88 CONSUMERS RULE... you may be able to get teh article hrough www.sportrider.com I'm not sure. Worst case you can't find it let me know, I'll copy and send you a copy of it. Just put it in writing and take the bike back to the dealer and give him what you wrote and what you want to have done o correct the situation...Getting hte bike to run right with the new jetting and replacing the lower cowling...IF the jetting was done properly in the first place you may not have had the melting, secondly if you were not informed that the pipe may cause melting that too is not your problem. In fact, V&H or you would have provided teh heat shield if you were told...I would also get a statement from V&H about the melting of the cowl...it will look good for you when you attach a copy of it to your letter to the shop..and should you have to go to small claims court...
 

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COPY?

did you find the article in the magazine? and...Before you go out again on the bike change back to an old set of plugs...The new type like yours seem to take longer to get warmed up and to work properly...I have a buddy witha trans am that was really disappointed in them...when he replaced his thermostat and went to a higher temp for the winter (WHY?) he changed his plugs again (WHY?) and the car ran great after he warmed it up before getting out on the highway... Let me know it the plugs were part of the problem...and if you still want a copy of the article
 

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Road Snot Needs A Kleenex
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Discussion Starter #11
Thanks for the info. Actually, I have that article. I just never read it before :lol:

I've never had a prob with the Denso Iridium plugs before. I've been running them in my '99 Honda Civic Si now for about 2 years. But, I still have the old plugs, which I can give a try when i get the bike back.

That's right , back. It in the shop AGAIN to get rejetted. I finally told the guy, " Listen, your son drives motorcycle and races motocross. I want him to test the bike after you rejet. Make sure he opens it up and contact me when it runs the right way."

He still won't do anything about the cowl, but they did put a 1" spacer in to lower it an inch from the exhaust.

I still plan on getting a hold of V&H, just haven't had the time yet.

The bright side is, the bike sounds really nice with the new exhaust. I tried taping it to make sound clips to post, but the recorder really sucks. Makes it sound like a 500cc dirt bike :eek:
 

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I'd give him the option

Option is to either replace the cowl, or you will go ahead and contact Kawasaki...just keep going up the corporate ladder, writing letters, Complaining to the BBB, best part is just to get your foot in the door somewhere with Kawasaki with your documentation and then you have the new piece...It's not a matter of just getting one from the salvage yard...the mechanic messed up, the work was inferior, and caused the plastic to melt...pay for it! Gee, like I replaced th acarb on your car it leaked and burnt up the hood and melted all the wiring under the hood...same situation...
 

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Road Snot Needs A Kleenex
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Discussion Starter #13
I've been looking into the LP USA Fast Glass Lowers for the bike, maybe I'll get it through his shop if he'll give it to me for half-cost for the damage they did to mine.

Worth a shot.
 

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rlovrin1 said:
I've been looking into the LP USA Fast Glass Lowers for the bike, maybe I'll get it through his shop if he'll give it to me for half-cost for the damage they did to mine.

Worth a shot.
Those full lowers are sexy, I am planning on getting one to replace my semi-modified stock lower cowling.

This is a guide to tuning a sportbike http://www.factorypro.com/tech/carbtune,CV,high_rpm_engines.html

If you didn't put airpods on the bike, the 140 jet is too big. a 135 or 136 is the right jet if you just put a regular K&N filter.
 

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Road Snot Needs A Kleenex
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Discussion Starter #15
The Shop finally after listening, did put the 136 mains in. Now the bike has great top end, but stutters from 6K-7.5K. I Test drove it for them last night because only 1 of the three mechanics have a motorcycle license. The one that's been working on my bike isn't licensed to drive it. :lol:

I gave the shop the print out from Factory Jet's website (http://www.factorypro.com/tech/carbtune,CV,high_rpm_engines.html).

They just don't want to listen. They keep calling Dyno Jet (mfgr of the jet kit) and Vance & Hines.

Here's the best part ony 1 of the three mechanics have a motorcycle license. The one that's been working on my bike isn't licensed to drive it. :lol:
 

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Road Snot Needs A Kleenex
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Discussion Starter #17
well, it's been a while since my poor rejet expeirence. I'm still having probs though. I decided to take the bike to a different place and let them work on it. They work on drag bikes and such so it should be interesting. Also, they have a Dyno, so I may know how much I'm putting down at the wheels when their done. :D

I'm also going to bite the bullet and have them install the Ignition Advancer before they start to tweak the bike. Can't wait!!
 

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The original reason your bike was running lean was because it was being starved fuel. With a full flow air filter and aftermarket pipe, they should have placed the 140 jets in. I'm not too sure how altitude would affect the whole thing, but my guess is it will have less air overall so the 136 makes sense.

The dealer trying to make it work the first time, set your idle high - that was dumb.

Had the dealer properly read and installed the pipes/jetkit properly the lower fairing would not have been cooked. I called Vance and Hines and they said that they had not experienced your issue and the first response was - was it touching the fairing? were shims installed to give it space?

I know on my Muzzy pipe instructions it implicitly states to check that.

INSTALLING YOUR NEW VANCE & HINES EXHAUST SYSTEM
1. Be sure to check that the stock exhaust gaskets are in good shape. If you have any doubts as to their condition, replace them.
2. Bolt on the front header section first.
3. Remove both springs from center stand and take out left side pivot bolt and clip.
4. Install the center stand stop bracket (supplied) with tang oriented toward top, inside of bike, placing the large hole over the spring anchor pin, and the center stand pivot bolt (removed in step 3) through the smaller hole.
5. Re-install the pivot bolt, clip and also both center stand springs.
6. Slide the rear section of the new exhaust system over the collector of the front section.
7. Slide the nut plate into the bracket that is welded onto the silencer can. Note: Be sure the nipple on the nut plate is facing towards the aluminum can.
8. Position the squared off end of the silencer mounting bracket over the nut plate while making sure the bend in the bracket is facing towards the aluminum can.
9. Install the two 5/16 bolts into the nut plate finger tight. 1
10.Position the rear section mounting bracket on the inside of the stock mounting bracket, where the stock system originally mounted.
11.Tighten assembly using the stock mounting bolt, washer and nut. Then tighten the two 5/16 bolts on the silencer.
12.Install the two springs over the tabs on the collector and tail section using the spring puller tool.
13.The stainless steel exhaust outlet tube may be redirected to suit personal preference or application. First remove the three button head screws on the rear aluminum canister. Slide the baffle assembly out about two inches. Loosen the three allen cap screws on the end cap. Rotate the outlet tube to suit and retighten the cap screws. Install the baffle assembly taking care to engage the baffle core over the end of tail pipe. Install the three button head screws and tighten.
 

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Oh...If the spark plugs were not set correctly, that could causing lots of heat too!

Carbs out of sync will cause heat too!


Whats the elevation where you live? If it is average the 140 jets should definately be installed - if it is high altitude, i would call Dynojet and talk with them personally as they will have a custom setting based on where you are at and where you do most riding!

Needles/Springs and jets combined will get you tuned. If the dealer even bothered to do that! I suspect that the pipe you have chosen(designed for high revs) is playing a factor here with your mid range causing the stutter/pause.
 

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Road Snot Needs A Kleenex
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Discussion Starter #20
Well, Finally got the bike back and it runs great!!! The New shop I took it to did an excellent job fixing the mess up that the other shop made when they rejetted the bike. It was Dyno tuned on a CycleDyne dyno, and the guy has been working with bikes and drag bikes for a while. It the shops specialty.

Here's what I was told:

• The other shop followed the DynoJet Instructions exactly, but the instructions themseleves were wrong. They have you modify the slides in a way that doesn't work well with the bike. Almost cost me new slides, but they were able to compensate.

• With the Bike having the Stage 3 rejet in it, it wouldn't run under load on the Dyno. After some tinkering and pulling the carbs off five times making adjustments, the bike would barely run .

• On the Dyno, the bike showed virtually no difference between the stock air filter and the K&N High Flow.

• The shop slowed down the slides to improve throttle response, set the bike up so that it now pulls strong all the way through the RPM range with no flat spots. And the warmer it gets, the harder it pulls. Also, I was told that the way it is now setup, I should see an improvement in gas mileage For those who wanted to know, the bike topped out at 50HP. But has alot more lowend and midrange kick.

• Downfall, due to the previous shops mistakes, my lower cowl is not almost completely shot. Once it started melting and getting close to the exhaust, (when the first rejet was way too lean), we added spacers to move it away. The just bought time. Now there is a hole in the cowl. My dad and I are going to see what we can to to cut it and modify it so it can go back on and not get damaged any more than it is.

• While on the Dyno, we also found that the Ignition system is showing signs of failure by spiking, then dropping under constant load around 8,000-11,000 RPM. Once fixed, my HP may actually improve.

Total Cost of DynoTuning & Purchase/Installation of Ignition Advancer- $360
 
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