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I think you're on the right track. Judging from this pic in the build link referenced earlier it appears the outer counterweight limits float to that side.

Have you drained the oil lately and examined the filter for metal shavings? An oil analysis can be done for a reasonable fee through Blackstone Labs. If the engine isn't eating itself I would just ride it. Locally. ;)

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Discussion Starter · #42 ·
There is only 200 kms on the new oil I put in last year but I am considering a partial drain and take to local lab for analysis. Less than $20 for a complete analysis. Bargain price if you ask me.
 

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That crankshaft is using all the available play possible, looking at the last picture, it would seem. Something is not right. Some bearings have keepers split in half to locate, but there is no indicator of anything even taking such a stop. The journal on #1 piston doesn't even seem to be able to allow such movement. I have no idea of what is going on. It would be very interesting to see ultimately what is going on. Isn't Bearing #5 just a plain bearing meaning the engine case journal would hold it in position? Bearing so shiny, lubed with oil, it wouldn't offer much friction. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #44 ·
Kawasakian, not sure which photo you refer to in your post #43, but I am 100% certain that all six bearings are rolling element bearings, five of which are roller bearings and then we have bearing #5 (the mystery bearing) which should be a different kind of bearing... one that can take some thrust loads. So, no plain bearings in this engine.

Not sure where you think you are seeing split keepers. On the last photo I added, the center bearings may look like one that is split, but they are actually, two separate bearings, but their outer races have slid towards each other and are almost hiding the camshaft chain gear.
 

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I've not seen split keepers in bike engines, only automotive. The mystery bearing is the answer to the issue, methinks, but all the other journals are so tight. This is above my pay grade. It will be interesting to see if someone comments, or you end up taking the lower end apart. Those engines are good for many other kinds of vehicles, such as trikes. I would like to see what's going on as I want to make a tadpole type trike using a Kawasaki 1100 engine with shaft drive, so I can hook it up to a solid axle with a differential. ;)

This style, with a Kawasaki engine though, and a front brake, different looking tank, and a little wooden pick up box in back for carrying groceries. This is Ian Roussel's trike. He used a VW carb and made a custom intake out of exhaust pipe, on a Goldwing 1100 engine!! :


 

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Discussion Starter · #46 ·
The journals do look tight, but until you see one up close there is no way to know for sure. All it needs is 1/16" of clearance on either side of the bearing and then it could move by the 1/8" that I think I am seeing.

Speaking of that, I am pondering how best to attempt an accurate measurement of crank end float WHILE the engine is running. The ignition rotor will be spinning at about 1000-1200 RPM and I don't want to burn up the tip of my dial indicator with steel on steel rubbing. Any ideas?

Cool trike, but I cannot say I am a fan of the coffin tank. But otherwise a nice adaptation of a Gold Wing.
 

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I've not seen split keepers in bike engines, only automotive. The mystery bearing is the answer to the issue, methinks, but all the other journals are so tight. This is above my pay grade. It will be interesting to see if someone comments, or you end up taking the lower end apart. Those engines are good for many other kinds of vehicles, such as trikes. I would like to see what's going on as I want to make a tadpole type trike using a Kawasaki 1100 engine with shaft drive, so I can hook it up to a solid axle with a differential. ;)

This style, with a Kawasaki engine though, and a front brake, different looking tank, and a little wooden pick up box in back for carrying groceries. This is Ian Roussel's trike. He used a VW carb and made a custom intake out of exhaust pipe, on a Goldwing 1100 engine!! :


That had to be a late 70s to 80's build, I haven't seen Pro Trac bias ply 50s since then.
 

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If you put a drop of 30 weight oil on the tip of the dial indicator, and end of the crank, it would give you enough time to get a measurement. I used to have to do high speed out of round tests on a specialized machine for bending up to 10" diameter screws used for all kinds of things, this particular one was for raising and lowering a mount for a missile on a Destroyer. It spun really fast and they wanted to see a dynamic out of round measurement. The same machine would be used to straighten it out. It was more of an art than anything that can be taught. Once I figured it out, I regretted it, because every time an order came in, they would give me the job, and some days, you just don't have the touch. ;)
 

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That's a good idea. I have all Brown and Sharp, and Mitutoyo indicators, and a few Starret. I am very careful with them. The Starret comes with an extension arm it on a pivot, to the end actually never touches the actual dial indicator. It is very old, in new condition, and has many little set ups for doing oddball kind of measurements. They sell the same kit for $309 dollars, mine is over 45 years old! I know it's American made. It's range is .200" of an inch. :)

The pic below is the one I collections have:

 

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Discussion Starter · #52 ·
Those are very nice (and expensive) dial indicators. My Fowler was not cheap either, but it is like a poor-man's version of a Starrett or Mitutoyo. When I was active in the trade I only bought Mitutoyo or Starrett. I also inherited some Brown and Sharp. All were excellent quality.

At our shop we had the exact same kit as in your photo. The transfer arm would be perfect for this situation.

Here is mine, but I think I got it on sale for around $140.
 

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I purchased virtually every Dial Indicator I found at Tag sales, it's amazing what people think are junk. I have a Brown and Sharp 5" inch sine bar in the box, I paid $10 bucks for it. I have a huge collection. They are each in their own plastic bags, and I have 3 that read in .0001" tenths of a thousands of an inch. You can see the heat affect the machined part. Brown and Sharp, another mainstay, and I have some of them too. I also have a good collection of the test indicators, which are excellent for locating hole centers of milling machines. That transfer arm has so many uses, and it's extremely hard. Mine shows no signs of wear. The Horizontal Indicators are fantastic, but they have to be at 30 degrees to actually measure something, otherwise, they are good for indicating flatness, hole centers, etc. The tip is fully adjustable, as I'm sure you know. :)




 

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Discussion Starter · #55 ·
I found a site that lists the bearing that I believe is the "mystery bearing #5". I think the site has mislabeled this bearing however since they say it is a center bearing, which we now know for certain are roller bearings, yet this one is a ball bearing.

Notice the tiny pin that locks the outer race to the crankcase as a positive way to control crankshaft end float.
Did someone rebuild my crank and substitute an ordinary ball bearing with no pin? Could the pin have sheared if the crank took a hard hit in an accident? Here is a clip of the bearing:

Wheel Automotive tire Rim Bicycle part Auto part


And here is a link to the site that sells those bearings;

#5 bearing with pin
 

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Very possibly. Ultimately, you have to decide if you are willing to live with it, or wish to take apart. It's hard for me to say, "rip apart the bottom end and ust find out", as my Spinal Cord injuries preclude me from doing anything that is not imminent. I don't know if this is imminent. You have other bikes you can ride, and have the expertise to do the job. You also have the desire to get this issue over. That seems to me that you're probably going to tamke the bottom end apart. A thread I will read with much interest. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #58 ·
If by "bearing shell" you mean the outer race of the bearing, then yes Loctite Stud and Bearing Mount, could be used as cheap insurance. I would likely do so if I decide to do a teardown. I am very much on the fence on this one.

On the one hand, my brain says "cut your losses and get rid of it" and on the other hand I have a curiosity to figure out what went wrong and why it went wrong.

I think I will start by gaging the interest in parts for sale. I might start with an ad on this site. Stay tuned. If you guys know of any other good ways to advertise a "parting out bike" like me know please.
 

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Discussion Starter · #59 ·
Very possibly. Ultimately, you have to decide if you are willing to live with it, or wish to take apart. It's hard for me to say, "rip apart the bottom end and ust find out", as my Spinal Cord injuries preclude me from doing anything that is not imminent. I don't know if this is imminent. You have other bikes you can ride, and have the expertise to do the job. You also have the desire to get this issue over. That seems to me that you're probably going to tamke the bottom end apart. A thread I will read with much interest. :)
While I would love to entertain with a teardown thread, I am leaning towards cutting my losses. You win some, you lose some. That's life.
 

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Well,,, IF the bearing race is floating, Is it wearing the case to where you'll need it line bored and all new main bearings?
 
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