[wcfarkas]

Before I start to diagnose the problem further, I would like strong opinions on what is the most likely problem.
I have a 1997- 1500 Vulcan classic. It is kept outside and covered.
PROBLEM
When I went to start it, I flipped off the kill switch, The typical lights came on (neutral, oil) but when I hit the start button it cranked for like a few seconds then all went dead, i.e. lights went out. I checked all the fuses, checked the battery, and all are okay. (minus the starter solenoid 30a fuse)
My question: what is most likely my trouble?
A. Kill switch or starter button
B. 30a fuse
C. Starter solenoid / relay
I don't think it would be any more serious than those above.
I know I may not give enough info but I am an older biker with COPD so my energy level is low. So I would like to have an opinion on what is the most likely problem
I can provide some more info if required

Thank you

 

[WFO-KZ]

The 30 amp fuse should be checked first.

After that, I would have the battery load tested. Either that or monitor battery voltage when you apply loads like horn, lights, starter motor.

 

[wcfarkas]

The 30 amp fuse should be checked first.

After that, I would have the battery load tested. Either that or monitor battery voltage when you apply loads like horn, lights, starter motor.

But wouldn't the dummy lights come on with the ignition switch turned on? I just did a battery spark test only so would adding a charge to the battery help initially to start

 

[WFO-KZ]

For the 75 cent cost, just replace the fuse with new. Old fuses are prone to failure, so even if this is not the problem, replacing it is simply a smart thing to do. If it has never been replaced it is 26 years old. All of your power (dummy lights included) flows through the 30 amp fuse. So if its blown, your bike will be deader than a doornail.

Absolutely charge the battery to see if this helps.

 

[Kawasakian]

If it's been parked outside, on the centerstand, or sidestand, the battery will drain out onto the concrete unless there is an insulator to protect it, even then, water will cause that to happen. I'd make sure you do a loadd test on the battery. If it's a conventional battery, get a Battery Hydrometer and check each cell for the specific gravity of the battery. A reading across the terminals will tell you nothing, as it could just be a surface charge. If the battery is really bad, eventually nothing will come on when you turn the switch. Hooking up a battery charger will tell you if the circuitry is working, though it won't start the bike.

 

[wcfarkas]

If it's been parked outside, on the centerstand, or sidestand, the battery will drain out onto the concrete unless there is an insulator to protect it, even then, water will cause that to happen. I'd make sure you do a loadd test on the battery. If it's a conventional battery, get a Battery Hydrometer and check each cell for the specific gravity of the battery. A reading across the terminals will tell you nothing, as it could just be a surface charge. If the battery is really bad, eventually nothing will come on when you turn the switch. Hooking up a battery charger will tell you if the circuitry is working, though it won't start the bike.

Battery was showing 11.2 under load. So it's ok.

 

[WFO-KZ]

Battery was showing 11.2 under load. So it's ok.

What did you use as a load?

 

[wcfarkas]

What did you use as a load?

Thinking my battery may have run out of life, Took it down to my friendly Advance auto parts. they hooked it up to a machine and put it under a system load. They told me it wouldn't keep it from starting....but in the same breath, they said stranger things have happened.

 

[WFO-KZ]

Some batteries will only last 3 years and if you are lucky you can get maybe 8 years. If it has been a while, its a good idea to replace the battery. Keep us posted on your progress please.

 

[Kawasakian]

Their system for checking loads is questionable. I've had them tell me batteries were good, when my specific battery tester told me a cell was bad. Fully charged, the battery should turn over your bike. If it doesn't, and you're convinced the battery is fine, I would look at the starter motor. Those starter motors can draw massive amps, and none of it is helping turn the motor over, when start go go bad.

 

[rv7charlie]

I'm a bit hesitant to disagree with Kawasakian, who knows a lot more about the bikes than I ever will. But if the battery and the rest of the bike are clean (no conductance paths created by oil/grease/dirt/moisture), then parking the bike on concrete, or even in a few inches of standing water, will have no effect on battery discharge rate while the bike is sitting and powered off. The discharge path for a battery is always between its positive post and negative post. It's not like house power, where you can tie the supply side to a hot outlet and run a ground wire to a rod in the ground. The old tale of not sitting a battery on concrete likely has its roots in the fact that most batteries, by the time someone is sitting them on the ground, have already got grease/grime/dirt/moisture across the top of the battery between the posts. If the battery had been placed on a styrofoam pad on a wooden shelf, it would still have discharged itself.

Now if the bike has any sort of 'vampire' load (alarm system, any sort of gps system or clock with a keep-alive circuit, etc), then that will run the battery down.

11.2V with any load less than the starter itself is a discharged or dead battery. If that's all it will do after charging, and you're measuring directly on the battery posts, then the battery is done.

Easy things 1st when troubleshooting. Charge the battery. Clean all the terminals related to connecting the battery: posts, any ring connectors (both sides), even bolts & nuts. Reconnect everything and power on the bike (not the starter itself). If there's still no normal lighting up, measure voltage directly on the battery terminals. :A good battery fully charged should be at least 12.4V minimum; could be close to 13V for a Sealed Lead Acid version. If it's lower, then bad battery. If it's up closer to 13V, then there's a high resistance or an open in either the supply side circuit, or the ground circuit. Don't neglect the ground circuit; everybody does and so that's where the problem often lies. Remember, the bike should be powered on for these tests. Leave the neg prob on the battery neg post, and move the meter positive probe to the main fuse, checking both ends.If you get full battery voltage on the load side of the fuse, move the meter pos to the frame of the bike. If you see any voltage at all on the meter, you likely have a ground path issue.

But I'm betting on a bad battery.

 

[Kawasakian]

All Batteries when sitting discharge through the negative side as the potential is far greater (Earth) than the positive side. A bike that is run every day will not have a problem as it will charge the battery and replace any loss. A bike sitting on concrete, dirt,grass, will discharge through the negative side. where all the electrons come from and follow the path of greatest potential. This is very basic electronics.
In a closed system, i.e. your bike standing on it's rubber tires and nothing else touching, the flow will be from negative to positive. The second that the side or center stand touches the ground, it is not longer a closed loop (Kirchoff's law) and the ground will, after months of sitting, drain your battery through whichever stand is touching the ground. It's better to remove the battery in Winter months and keep them on battery tenders. I get on average 5 to 6 years out of a motorcycle battery. I think you batttery is not taking a load, it's the best place to start.

 

[rv7charlie]

Batteries and the ground

 

[Kawasakian]

You should read articles you post to. This speaks about storage of batteries, referring to their outside casing. Those casings are non conductive and will not discharge. We were discussing about the battery connected to the ground terminal, which grounds to the frame, then to the concrete, ground, grass, etc. through the side or center stand That article was not about that. We were discussing a circuit, not the component of a circuit. I bring my batteries so they are temperature controlled and I can rotate them on a trickle charger. They are sitting on a wire shelf on my back porch right now.

 

[WFO-KZ]

The self-discharge rate of a lead-acid battery varies with how it is stored and with the quality of the battery itself.
A rough rule of thumb is 1% per day. A good battery tender is your best friend for winter storage.

I agree that it is best to remove the battery, check the electrolyte level and add distilled water if needed and then put it on an automatic battery tender for winter storage. This will maximize the life of the battery and ensure a nice healthy, fully-charged battery for that first (perhaps difficult) start of the new riding season.

 

[Kawasakian]

I have found over this extremely long Winter, having to add quite a bit of distilled water, and I'm charging at 1.8 amps. Imperative to check the fluid level, that batteries will read the proper voltage, but there won't be any amps to deliver.

 

[wcfarkas]

I'm a bit hesitant to disagree with Kawasakian, who knows a lot more about the bikes than I ever will. But if the battery and the rest of the bike are clean (no conductance paths created by oil/grease/dirt/moisture), then parking the bike on concrete, or even in a few inches of standing water, will have no effect on battery discharge rate while the bike is sitting and powered off. The discharge path for a battery is always between its positive post and negative post. It's not like house power, where you can tie the supply side to a hot outlet and run a ground wire to a rod in the ground. The old tale of not sitting a battery on concrete likely has its roots in the fact that most batteries, by the time someone is sitting them on the ground, have already got grease/grime/dirt/moisture across the top of the battery between the posts. If the battery had been placed on a styrofoam pad on a wooden shelf, it would still have discharged itself.

Now if the bike has any sort of 'vampire' load (alarm system, any sort of gps system or clock with a keep-alive circuit, etc), then that will run the battery down.

11.2V with any load less than the starter itself is a discharged or dead battery. If that's all it will do after charging, and you're measuring directly on the battery posts, then the battery is done.

Easy things 1st when troubleshooting. Charge the battery. Clean all the terminals related to connecting the battery: posts, any ring connectors (both sides), even bolts & nuts. Reconnect everything and power on the bike (not the starter itself). If there's still no normal lighting up, measure voltage directly on the battery terminals. : A good battery fully charged should be at least 12.4V minimum; could be close to 13V for a Sealed Lead Acid version. If it's lower, then bad battery. If it's up closer to 13V, then there's a high resistance or an open in either the supply side circuit, or the ground circuit. Don't neglect the ground circuit; everybody does and so that's where the problem often lies. Remember, the bike should be powered on for these tests. Leave the neg prob on the battery neg post, and move the meter positive probe to the main fuse, checking both ends.If you get full battery voltage on the load side of the fuse, move the meter pos to the frame of the bike. If you see any voltage at all on the meter, you likely have a ground path issue.

But I'm betting on a bad battery.

When I had a mobile mechanic come out..... miraculously it started up..for what reason unknown. He was sure it would be the starter before it started up. After it started he tested to see what the reading was. It was 11.7-11.9 at idle when I throttled up. it went to 12 - 12.2. So with that in mind he tended to think the stator was bad or going bad..though he didn't rule out a bad battery

 

[WFO-KZ]

My 2 cents worth at this point:

1) you have a weak battery that is able to start the bike under perfect conditions.

Solution? Buy a new battery.

 

[rv7charlie]

If you only had 12.2 V with the bike at near cruise rpm, there's definitely something wrong with the charging system. If the battery was anywhere down in the 12 V region after charging but without the bike running, the battery is almost certainly bad, too. WFO-KZ is correct, a battery in quite bad condition can still have enough energy to crank the bike.

edit: If it were my money, I'd be spending it on a battery first, simply because it's a much smaller pain in the wallet, and I'd figure that I'd probably need one soon, anyway. And at today's prices for SLA batteries, I can't imagine buying a flooded cell battery. Only things of mine that still have wet cells are cars where the exact replacement is the only thing that fits, and the 45 HP diesel tractor battery that would be really pricey for an SLA. An Odyssey PC680 is less than $200, and some of the clones (which work just fine; I use them in aircraft) are less than 1/2 that money.Self discharge of any of the SLAs is very slow; they will have over 80% charge after about a year of sitting idle and never seeing a charger.
edit2: Odyssey docs; basically apply to most SLA starting batteries. I'd start with the technical manual.

If charging voltage stays low (probably will), a good, knowledgeable mechanic would at least check coil resistance of all the stator windings (I'm betting there are three 'circuits') before tearing down the engine. And he also would replace (substitute a known good) rectifier/regulator, before tearing down the engine.

 

[Kawasakian]

With a wet cell battery you can check each cell with a specific gravity tester. You can't do that with the other ones. On average I get 5 to 6 years out of a motorcycle battery. The ones Walmart sells are made by Yuasa (a lot of people don't know that). Taken care of properly, removed from bike when bike is parked for Winter (if that applies to you), all you do is add some distilled water, and keep it on a 1.8 amp battery tender. The water will evaporate, so you top it up, and the battery comes back up to full power after you continue charging.

The specific gravity tester cost around $5 bucks, and that will tell you where you battery is truly at. You cannot check sealed batteries like that. That's why I haven't changed from wet.