i don't have much history on this machine but it runs ok till warm then it seems like the oil pump loses its prime and it starts ticking. i can watch the oil in the sight glass not move when it starts doing this. when i got into this engine the crankcase was flooded with fuel. new oil and filter. would the relief valve in the filter have anything to do with this problem. anybody have this happen to them and what was the remedy.
90-300 bayou oil pump.
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If your oil pump lost its prime you would know it immediately. It wouldn't just be a ticking noise but a sudden knock and a short siezing.
#1 the oil is pulled up out of the sump at the lowest point of the engine so if you can still see oil in the sightglass the pump is at least being supplied with oil
#2 while it is possible that the clearances inside of the oil pump can exceed recommended levels allowing a pressure drop once it's warm, it's unlikely to do so. Kawasaki uses gerotor oil pumps which are highly reliable and very simple in design. Usually if enough damage is done to them to cause leak back against the pressure it will happen all of the time, not just once warm.
#3 The crank bearing is a roller type but the cam bearings are not. They are oil film fluid bearings and will QUICKLY eat themselves if starved for oil. If you are having pressure problems and the engine is still running, consider yourself lucky and don't operate it anymore before the problem is remedied.
#4 "circulating" oil in the sightglass isn't a good measure of the activity of the oil pump. The movement of the oil in the sight glass is influenced MUCH more by the operation of the primary and secondary clutches. They sling the oil in there around when the quad is in neutral. Putting the transmission into any gear while idling stops both clutches from moving allowing the oil to settle into the clutch cover and sight glass.
#5 "ticking" coming from the top end when it warms up is more likely to be valve adjustment than oil pressure problems. It could also be a timing chain adjustment issue.
#6 If you would like to confirm oil pressure during operation remove the valve inspection cover while the engine is idling after is warmed up. Good oil pressure will force oil out of the chamfered holes in the back of the camshaft lobe and onto the pads of the rocker arms. Once it slings out onto the rocker arms the motion of the arms will sling it out of the inspection hole (and all over the place! lol). You can also crack one of the banjo bolts on the oil feed piping and see if oil seeps out from around the gasket. With just the tension removed from the banjo bolt oil should pour out from both gasket surfaces as the oil pump pressure forces it into the path of least resistance.
#7 improper oil level (too high) can allow the oil to contact the throw of the crankshaft during high speed operation which can froth air into the oil. If this is the case, the oil will take on a "milky" look. Unlike water mixed in with oil, the air will float back out of the oil if allowed to stand for a few minutes and the oil will go back to its proper appearance. If the oil in the sight glass is extraordinarily milky but returns after the quad is stopped you might want to check your oil level.
#1 the oil is pulled up out of the sump at the lowest point of the engine so if you can still see oil in the sightglass the pump is at least being supplied with oil
#2 while it is possible that the clearances inside of the oil pump can exceed recommended levels allowing a pressure drop once it's warm, it's unlikely to do so. Kawasaki uses gerotor oil pumps which are highly reliable and very simple in design. Usually if enough damage is done to them to cause leak back against the pressure it will happen all of the time, not just once warm.
#3 The crank bearing is a roller type but the cam bearings are not. They are oil film fluid bearings and will QUICKLY eat themselves if starved for oil. If you are having pressure problems and the engine is still running, consider yourself lucky and don't operate it anymore before the problem is remedied.
#4 "circulating" oil in the sightglass isn't a good measure of the activity of the oil pump. The movement of the oil in the sight glass is influenced MUCH more by the operation of the primary and secondary clutches. They sling the oil in there around when the quad is in neutral. Putting the transmission into any gear while idling stops both clutches from moving allowing the oil to settle into the clutch cover and sight glass.
#5 "ticking" coming from the top end when it warms up is more likely to be valve adjustment than oil pressure problems. It could also be a timing chain adjustment issue.
#6 If you would like to confirm oil pressure during operation remove the valve inspection cover while the engine is idling after is warmed up. Good oil pressure will force oil out of the chamfered holes in the back of the camshaft lobe and onto the pads of the rocker arms. Once it slings out onto the rocker arms the motion of the arms will sling it out of the inspection hole (and all over the place! lol). You can also crack one of the banjo bolts on the oil feed piping and see if oil seeps out from around the gasket. With just the tension removed from the banjo bolt oil should pour out from both gasket surfaces as the oil pump pressure forces it into the path of least resistance.
#7 improper oil level (too high) can allow the oil to contact the throw of the crankshaft during high speed operation which can froth air into the oil. If this is the case, the oil will take on a "milky" look. Unlike water mixed in with oil, the air will float back out of the oil if allowed to stand for a few minutes and the oil will go back to its proper appearance. If the oil in the sight glass is extraordinarily milky but returns after the quad is stopped you might want to check your oil level.
when the engine is cold the oil in the sight glass is sloshing around normally but once it warms up the oil just sits there not moving and it starts ticking/knocking from the right side . the oil level is between the two marks in the glass. i don't want to run this engine till i get it figured out whats wrong. the top end doesn't make any noise but i will check oil pressure at the banjo bolts to see if its still pumping once warm.
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the right side? The entire timing assembly is on the left side. Is the knocking from the bottom end or the top?
Have you checked the oil screen? Your quad actually has like two filters. One is a replacable paper cartridge element. The other is a filter screen on the supply side to the pump. I'm not sure where it's located at on the bayou 300, I know it's under the clutch cover on the bayou 400 but mine is also a different shape than yours. Mine is a flat and arranged under the clutch cover but yours is round and may be under a large bolt head on the bottom of the case.
Have you checked the oil screen? Your quad actually has like two filters. One is a replacable paper cartridge element. The other is a filter screen on the supply side to the pump. I'm not sure where it's located at on the bayou 300, I know it's under the clutch cover on the bayou 400 but mine is also a different shape than yours. Mine is a flat and arranged under the clutch cover but yours is round and may be under a large bolt head on the bottom of the case.
the knocking is coming from the bottom right side. it runs good till it warms up then gets noisy. im going to pull that little basket strainer out and see if its plugged. im running 10/30 in it now but am going to use 10/40 after i dump this oil. why would it start after it warms up if its not a rod/crank bearing?
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It could be a case bearing, they aren't pressure lubed and if it ran for a long time off angle it could have starved a bearing for enough oil to score it. The oil level would have to be exceedingly low for that to be the case.
The best course of action is going to be to pull the clutch cover off and inspect all of the stuff inside for any damage. As a last resort, the oil pump is located under that cover. You can pull it out and check the clearances inside of it while you have it out.
The best course of action is going to be to pull the clutch cover off and inspect all of the stuff inside for any damage. As a last resort, the oil pump is located under that cover. You can pull it out and check the clearances inside of it while you have it out.
ok, i pulled the clutch cover and started to do the one way clutch test. i can turn the primary housing both ways, it doesn't stop either way. its only supposed to turn ccw, right. well it turns both ways no friction at all. i thought i could hear something rolling after i shut the engine off...that must be what im hearing. thats as far as iv got so far. the little screen cup looks like it got damaged before but is usable. it had some assembly junk in it but not nearly enough to plug it. i have the clymer manual to follow as well, good thing. lol. any idea where i can get the one way clutch and screen filter? i will check all tolerances once i get it pulled apart some more. thanks for helping me out.
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Actually, I have a bayou 300 4x4 engine out in my shop right now. I pulled the clutch off of it last night looking for a washer to salvage. I can test the one way clutch on it and make sure it acts like it's supposed to.
Beware of any damage to the oil screen. That side of the lubrication system isn't under pressure, it's under vacuum. Any deformity can allow the cup to collapse in on itself once the pump is pumping. If it's not straight, you may need another. I haven't looked at that washer on this engine I have but if you want me to, I can pull it out and see.
Beware of any damage to the oil screen. That side of the lubrication system isn't under pressure, it's under vacuum. Any deformity can allow the cup to collapse in on itself once the pump is pumping. If it's not straight, you may need another. I haven't looked at that washer on this engine I have but if you want me to, I can pull it out and see.
your gonna get a chuckle out of this...
i pulled the primary clutch apart and was following the clymer manual. im looking at the exploded view of the primary where the one way clutch SHOULD be and its not there. im looking in the oil pan under the bike and on the floor, in the clean shop rag iv got it pulled apart on, it never had one. lol. the shoes are way over the service limit and the primary hub is scored but well within tolerance. the secondary clutch pack is good to go as well. all tolerances are good except no one way clutch and primary shoes are fubared. if you have a primary clutch you have for sale would sure shorten my parts hunting time. i have a friend who owns a lathe, i will chuck it in and clean up the primary hub so its still below the service limit, hopefully. i could sure use the screen cup as well if you have spares or salvage.
i pulled the primary clutch apart and was following the clymer manual. im looking at the exploded view of the primary where the one way clutch SHOULD be and its not there. im looking in the oil pan under the bike and on the floor, in the clean shop rag iv got it pulled apart on, it never had one. lol. the shoes are way over the service limit and the primary hub is scored but well within tolerance. the secondary clutch pack is good to go as well. all tolerances are good except no one way clutch and primary shoes are fubared. if you have a primary clutch you have for sale would sure shorten my parts hunting time. i have a friend who owns a lathe, i will chuck it in and clean up the primary hub so its still below the service limit, hopefully. i could sure use the screen cup as well if you have spares or salvage.
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I have a salvage. I bought the suspension parts as spares for my bayou 400 so I have a complete bayou 300 engine sitting on my garage floor.
Don't jump to conclusions about scoring on the primary clutch hub. Read a little closer in the clymer's... there are supposed to be grooves cut into the drum for the primary clutch shoes to fit into. The primary clutch shoes are also supposed to be grooved. The process actually increases surface area without increasing size or weight of the parts involved increasing the "effective" clutch force without increasing the size of the assembly. clever design really...
So was your electric start not working before? Without the one-way clutch the gears from the starter have no way to turn the crankshaft.
I have to pull the screen cup out of the bottom end of that motor. I have no idea what it looks like. I'll take pictures of the clutch parts and screen cup tomorrow to post.
Don't jump to conclusions about scoring on the primary clutch hub. Read a little closer in the clymer's... there are supposed to be grooves cut into the drum for the primary clutch shoes to fit into. The primary clutch shoes are also supposed to be grooved. The process actually increases surface area without increasing size or weight of the parts involved increasing the "effective" clutch force without increasing the size of the assembly. clever design really...
So was your electric start not working before? Without the one-way clutch the gears from the starter have no way to turn the crankshaft.
I have to pull the screen cup out of the bottom end of that motor. I have no idea what it looks like. I'll take pictures of the clutch parts and screen cup tomorrow to post.
i was hoping those groves were supposed to be there. the clutch shoes are worn flush with the steel, there are no groves. the starter worked fine, never lost a beat in that department, yet. as for cover gasket...do i need one for bearing clearance or can i get away with hi-temp silicone? do you want to sell any parts off that mill or is the whole engine for sale? I'll have to post a pic of the front bumper on this machine....hideous. lol. if you have one of those i'd buy that too. after seeing how this bike was re-assembled, im definitely pulling the oil pump apart to check it. i put a carb from a honda trx300 on it and i like it. i drilled out the choke nut so my old choke cable would fit and it works like a charm. i pulled the cable out of the old throttle bracket an drilled the threaded ear on the honda carb and that works really well, lots of adjustment too. i read that i should open up the slow jet a bit as well. im getting a little backfire through the carb...if i leave the choke on a little bit it doesn't backfire. thanks.
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I'm not sure about the gasket question. I would assume that you need a gasket considering that the clutch cover is the end that delivers oil to the crankshaft under pressure and you need to maintain the correct distance to the cases.
If it's down to the steel then it is wore out. There should be pad material all the way around it even at the bottom of the grooves. What type of oil was being run in this machine? Whatever type of oil you run has to be JASO MA certified and usually says "for wet clutches" on the bottle. If regular car motor oil was run in this machine for any length of time, it can cause the primary clutch to slip and the secondary clutch to swell.
Were you having trouble shifting? Trouble shifting could be the secondary clutch not releasing all the way because the discs are swollen. The good news is, as long as there hasn't been any permanent damage to the discs, that condition can go away on it's own as the correct oil is ran.
I'll get some pictures up of that primary clutch today. Let you see what I'm talking about.
If it's down to the steel then it is wore out. There should be pad material all the way around it even at the bottom of the grooves. What type of oil was being run in this machine? Whatever type of oil you run has to be JASO MA certified and usually says "for wet clutches" on the bottle. If regular car motor oil was run in this machine for any length of time, it can cause the primary clutch to slip and the secondary clutch to swell.
Were you having trouble shifting? Trouble shifting could be the secondary clutch not releasing all the way because the discs are swollen. The good news is, as long as there hasn't been any permanent damage to the discs, that condition can go away on it's own as the correct oil is ran.
I'll get some pictures up of that primary clutch today. Let you see what I'm talking about.
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Here's the side case opened up:
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Here's the one-way clutch inside the primary clutch drum:
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Here's the primary clutch (not a good picture to be able to tell but the pad material on this one is a little worn as well although not to steel):
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I will sell you the oil pump and the primary clutch assembly for $50 plus whatever shipping is. Heck, I'll even throw in the secondary clutch and clutch cover if you want it.
Here's the one-way clutch inside the primary clutch drum:
Here's the primary clutch (not a good picture to be able to tell but the pad material on this one is a little worn as well although not to steel):
I will sell you the oil pump and the primary clutch assembly for $50 plus whatever shipping is. Heck, I'll even throw in the secondary clutch and clutch cover if you want it.
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I don't see a screen down there. It looks like someone has already been inside this clutch cover before. I figured as much, this was a parts quad before I bought it anyway. I'll pull the oil pump and primary clutch off.
I can accept Paypal but I'll need to figure up shipping first. You pay whatever the freight is on the parts so I'll take it to the post office tomorrow and see how much it will cost.
I can accept Paypal but I'll need to figure up shipping first. You pay whatever the freight is on the parts so I'll take it to the post office tomorrow and see how much it will cost.
well i got it all back together and it runs fine. the parts you sent me worked out perfect. i got the recoil starter working too. the honda carb swap works excellent after i opened up the slow jet to a #45. choke and throttle cables working good. again, thanks!
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Is the oil circulating in the sight glass once it warms up now?
Glad to help!
Glad to help!
I just did a motor swapo on my Bayou 300. On initial start up, I discovered the outer drive shaft seal coming out of the transmission started "pouring oil out. (Seal was shot)...I didn't run it long (maybe 1-2 minutes). Any chance the motor was not getting proper lubrication during this period. I'm hopeful it was still pumping oil to the top end. It wasn't making any ticking or knocking sounds and it was initially full of oil. Thanks for any info you can give me! MIchael
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